BWitcher Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) Most people rightly or wrongly voted for her hardly an a agenda . That is in your view ..others see it as him joining a team that was miles behind before making the greatest sporting comeback of all time ..you don't rate it but the public did . No, not in my view. Its a factual view. Ainslie was a tactician, that is it. He was one part of a 203 man team in an event contested by 2 teams. What next, Ivan Lendl is up for an award as he was Andy Murray's coach? Again, you are harping on about the 'public' and their apparent obsession with sailing. Have you got the viewing figures for the UK for the Americas Cup to back it up? Edited to save you the trouble. This epic race that the 'public' so passionately care about was the 10th most watched programme on Sky Sports 4... this is the 'deciding race as well'. It is below Pool!!! Edited to add further.. it attracted viewing figures of 1/3rd of the average viewing figure for Elite League Speedway during 2013. 22,000 being the figure. Ooops.. I apologise, another edit.. the above figure relates to an earlier race.. the deciding races really captured the imagination of the public as Orion says, they pulled in an epic 28,000 for the penultimate, and the final epic last race pulled in an outstanding 30,000 viewers! In week Ending 15th September 2013.. Live Americas Cup Sailing... 28,000 viewers.. Live Elite League Speedway ... 72,000 viewers. Edited November 27, 2013 by BWitcher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 No, not in my view. Its a factual view. Ainslie was a tactician, that is it. He was one part of a 203 man team in an event contested by 2 teams. What next, Ivan Lendl is up for an award as he was Andy Murray's coach? Again, you are harping on about the 'public' and their apparent obsession with sailing. Have you got the viewing figures for the UK for the Americas Cup to back it up? Have you ? I told you before look at the tv stations and the newspapers the days after not just in the uk but worldwide then come back to Tai ...about 4 lines in the Daily Star if he was lucky . It was a world wide massive event and classed by many as the greatest sporting come back of all time ...you don't like it and what he done fair play but to the public and tv and press it was massive . Ben is a massive sorting hero in the Uk Tai is a no one outside speedway sad but true . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) Have you ? I told you before look at the tv stations and the newspapers the days after not just in the uk but worldwide then come back to Tai ...about 4 lines in the Daily Star if he was lucky . It was a world wide massive event and classed by many as the greatest sporting come back of all time ...you don't like it and what he done fair play but to the public and tv and press it was massive . Ben is a massive sorting hero in the Uk Tai is a no one outside speedway sad but true . No it wasn't massive. I've already proven that to you. It attracted viewing figures barely 1/3rd of a minority sport such as speedway. All of this DESPITE all the mainstream press it received. Edited November 27, 2013 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) No it wasn't massive. I've already proven that to you. It attracted viewing figures barely 1/3rd of a minority sport such as speedway. All of this DESPITE all the mainstream press it received. Have you the got the link for the figures uk and world wide as I have not seen them ? Edited November 27, 2013 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) Have you the got the link for figures as I have not seen them ? Edited.. The links just seem to take you to the same page. However, if you search for Sky Sports 3 and 4 and click on the relevant weeks, you will find the figures there. Sky Sports 3 w/e 29 Sep 2013 000's 1 WWE LATE NIGHT RAW - LIVE (MON 2500) 165 2 ELCHE V REAL MADRID - LIVE (WED 2055) 62 3 LIVE EUROPEAN TOUR GOLF (SAT 1330) 58 4 REVISTA DE LA LIGA SPECIAL - LIVE/#BARCE (TUE 1800 46 5 THE RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP-ARG V NZ (SUN 1502) 38 6 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (TUE 2100) 30 7 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (MON 2100) 28 8 WWE RAW/#WWE RAW EP 1060 (MON 1702) 27 9 THINKING TACKLE (THU 1900) 26 10 WWE RAW (FRI 1630) 25 w/e 22 Sep 2013 000's 1 MARSEILLE V ARSENAL - LIVE/#MARSEILLE V (WED 1930) 413 2 GALATASARAY V REAL MADRID - LIVE/#GALATA (TUE 1930 104 3 EUROPEAN SENIORS TOUR GOLF (WED 2200) 43 4 LIVE WORLD CUP OF POOL/#WORLD CUP OF POO (SUN 1800 42 5 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF/#BMW CHAMPIONSHIP D5 (MON 1500) 42 6 UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE HIGHLIGHTS/#UEFA C (FRI 1544 33 7 LIVE WORLD CUP OF POOL/#WORLD CUP OF POO (SAT 1801 32 8 THINKING TACKLE (THU 1859) 32 9 WHATS THE STORY?/#AMERICAS CUP 2013 - TE (SUN 2100 27 10 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (THU 2100) 27 w/e 15 Sep 2013 000's 1 ROSS COUNTY V DUNDEE UNITED-LIVE/#ROSS C (SUN 1230 53 2 AS RUN INSERT/##2 2011 CHAMPIONS LEAGUE (SAT 1025) 47 3 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (SAT 1800) 45 4 THINKING TACKLE (THU 1900) 38 5 BRITISH PAR 3 GOLF CHAMPIONSHIP (WED 1900) 35 6 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (SUN 2100) 28 7 WWE BOTTOM LINE/#WWE BOTTOM LINE # 591 (SAT 1030) 25 8 SUPER LEAGUE FULLTIME (MON 1800) 22 9 WWE SMACKDOWN (SAT 0830) 22 10 LIVE CURRIE CUP RUGBY UNION (FRI 1800) 20 w/e 15 Sep 2013 000's 1 WWE LATE NIGHT RAW - LIVE (MON 2500) 169 2 NEW ZEALAND V SOUTH AFRICA - LIVE/#RUGBY (SAT 0800 140 3 LIVE SUPER LEAGUE PLAY-OFF (SAT 1430) 125 4 LIVE SUPER LEAGUE PLAY-OFF (SAT 1701) 116 5 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (FRI 2000) 74 6 ELITE LEAGUE SPEEDWAY (MON 1930) 72 7 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (THU 2000) 63 8 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (SUN 1741) 45 9 LIVE LADIES EUROPEAN TOUR GOLF/#EVIAN MA (SUN 1008 44 10 AUSTRALIA V ARGENTINA - LIVE/#RUGBY CHAM (SAT 1054 39 That pretty much ends the debate about how interested the public really were about Ainslies 2013 achievement. Of course he will still get votes, but those will be based upon his name. Edited November 27, 2013 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Can see places in that list but no figures ..have you got eurosport ones and the worldwide as well ..many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/sports-personality/25109073 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) Can see places in that list but no figures ..have you got eurosport ones and the worldwide as well ..many thanks The figures are on the list. The final number is the amount in 000's. So Americas Cup highest figure was 30. EL Speedway was 72. Worldwide is irrelevant as we are discussing Sports Personality of the Year, which is a British award. The reality of this situation is despite the mainstream press/media bigging it up, drilling it into the public what a big amazing event this is, very few people could be bothered to watch the culmination of what was being hyped as 'one of the greatest sporting comebacks of all time'... that quite clearly suggests they weren't really bothered doesn't it? Edited November 27, 2013 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Edited.. The links just seem to take you to the same page. However, if you search for Sky Sports 3 and 4 and click on the relevant weeks, you will find the figures there. Sky Sports 3 w/e 29 Sep 2013 000's 1 WWE LATE NIGHT RAW - LIVE (MON 2500) 165 2 ELCHE V REAL MADRID - LIVE (WED 2055) 62 3 LIVE EUROPEAN TOUR GOLF (SAT 1330) 58 4 REVISTA DE LA LIGA SPECIAL - LIVE/#BARCE (TUE 1800 46 5 THE RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP-ARG V NZ (SUN 1502) 38 6 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (TUE 2100) 30 7 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (MON 2100) 28 8 WWE RAW/#WWE RAW EP 1060 (MON 1702) 27 9 THINKING TACKLE (THU 1900) 26 10 WWE RAW (FRI 1630) 25 w/e 22 Sep 2013 000's 1 MARSEILLE V ARSENAL - LIVE/#MARSEILLE V (WED 1930) 413 2 GALATASARAY V REAL MADRID - LIVE/#GALATA (TUE 1930 104 3 EUROPEAN SENIORS TOUR GOLF (WED 2200) 43 4 LIVE WORLD CUP OF POOL/#WORLD CUP OF POO (SUN 1800 42 5 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF/#BMW CHAMPIONSHIP D5 (MON 1500) 42 6 UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE HIGHLIGHTS/#UEFA C (FRI 1544 33 7 LIVE WORLD CUP OF POOL/#WORLD CUP OF POO (SAT 1801 32 8 THINKING TACKLE (THU 1859) 32 9 WHATS THE STORY?/#AMERICAS CUP 2013 - TE (SUN 2100 27 10 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (THU 2100) 27 w/e 15 Sep 2013 000's 1 ROSS COUNTY V DUNDEE UNITED-LIVE/#ROSS C (SUN 1230 53 2 AS RUN INSERT/##2 2011 CHAMPIONS LEAGUE (SAT 1025) 47 3 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (SAT 1800) 45 4 THINKING TACKLE (THU 1900) 38 5 BRITISH PAR 3 GOLF CHAMPIONSHIP (WED 1900) 35 6 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (SUN 2100) 28 7 WWE BOTTOM LINE/#WWE BOTTOM LINE # 591 (SAT 1030) 25 8 SUPER LEAGUE FULLTIME (MON 1800) 22 9 WWE SMACKDOWN (SAT 0830) 22 10 LIVE CURRIE CUP RUGBY UNION (FRI 1800) 20 w/e 15 Sep 2013 000's 1 WWE LATE NIGHT RAW - LIVE (MON 2500) 169 2 NEW ZEALAND V SOUTH AFRICA - LIVE/#RUGBY (SAT 0800 140 3 LIVE SUPER LEAGUE PLAY-OFF (SAT 1430) 125 4 LIVE SUPER LEAGUE PLAY-OFF (SAT 1701) 116 5 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (FRI 2000) 74 6 ELITE LEAGUE SPEEDWAY (MON 1930) 72 7 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (THU 2000) 63 8 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (SUN 1741) 45 9 LIVE LADIES EUROPEAN TOUR GOLF/#EVIAN MA (SUN 1008 44 10 AUSTRALIA V ARGENTINA - LIVE/#RUGBY CHAM (SAT 1054 39 That pretty much ends the debate about how interested the public really were about Ainslies 2013 achievement. Of course he will still get votes, but those will be based upon his name. …and most of the publicity of this great event was delivered to the viewing public by the SKY Sports News all for about two days on a channel that you have no choice of knowing whats going to be on in advance. It's a one off spectacular each year it is contested. For coming back from the dead might make the winners "Team of the Year', and in that category they could do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) …and most of the publicity of this great event was delivered to the viewing public by the SKY Sports News all for about two days on a channel that you have no choice of knowing whats going to be on in advance. It's a one off spectacular each year it is contested. For coming back from the dead might make the winners "Team of the Year', and in that category they could do well. I'd even disagree there to be honest Tsunami.. What team is it? USA? With a crew of mostly New Zealanders, Ainslie as tactician? It was basically New Zealand v New Zealand with only the money men deciding the 'nations' involved. You are right though, the event was hyped to the extreme and to garner such low figures speaks volumes. Edited November 27, 2013 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Actually, we're not comparing like-for-like here. If we're taking viewing figures from when the America's Cup was won then it needs to be compared with the GP viewing figure when Tai won it. Just saying. The thing with Ben Ainslie is people know who he is. I saw The One Show last night when they were doing drawings of each nominee. I think people need to be realistic here. Had they announced Tai Woffinden as a nominee and done their little sketch most of the people watching would have gone: "Who the hell is that?" In 1976 Peter Collins' World Final win made the front page of the Daily Mirror - and he still came nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) Actually, we're not comparing like-for-like here. If we're taking viewing figures from when the America's Cup was won then it needs to be compared with the GP viewing figure when Tai won it. Just saying. The thing with Ben Ainslie is people know who he is. I saw The One Show last night when they were doing drawings of each nominee. I think people need to be realistic here. Had they announced Tai Woffinden as a nominee and done their little sketch most of the people watching would have gone: "Who the hell is that?" In 1976 Peter Collins' World Final win made the front page of the Daily Mirror - and he still came nowhere. Again, utterly irrelevant. This is meant to be a contest of sporting achievement for 2013. Folk know who David Beckham is, by your assertion he should have been on the list too. Folk know who Ben Ainslie is because its rammed down their throats, they can't escape it. It doesn't mean folk have any great love for sailing. It's just another example of how the media controls people to such a great degree. Folk only come to know who someone is if they are given the coverage in the first place. We only know some of the disabled athletes (apologies if that isn't the correct term) because the para-olympics were held in London and it was hyped to the extreme. Had Tai been included (and I'm not one who is saying he definately should have been) then his name would have become familiar to viewers. They would have learned what he did and how he did it, obstacles he overcame etc and the next time they saw his name they would be more aware of who he was. Not sure what you are trying to say about the viewing figures, as the figures for when Tai won the GP will be significantly higher than they were for the bog standard Elite League match that attracted more 2.5 times the viewers that the 'greatest comback in the history of sport that was hyped up in advance as a must see event' managed. I didn't include the GP's as they are on Eurosport and I believe available to more households? Thus it would be unfair and put the mighty sailing at a disadvantage. Edited November 27, 2013 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Not sure what you are trying to say about the viewing figures, as the figures for when Tai won the GP will be significantly higher than they were for the bog standard Elite League match that attracted more 2.5 times the viewers that the 'greatest comback in the history of sport that was hyped up in advance as a must see event' managed. I didn't say the figures would be higher or lower. Just that you're not comparing like-for-like events. I'm neutral me! Remember when Tai won and featured on BBC breakfast? The following week they featured a Brit who won the World Squash Championship. He hasn't been nominated either. Anyone know his name? This British winner of the World Squash Championship? I don't. I'm sure in the world of squash there are plenty of people going into swearing fits on Facebook about how HE should have been nominated too. I'm sure there's plenty of others out there. The Ben Ainslie nomination is maybe a bit tenuous, but even if he hadn't been nominated the next in line wouldn't have been Tai Woffinden. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Not saying it would or should have been Tai Woffinden, the debate was due to Orions claim of how popular sailing as a sport is with the British public and he was using speedway as a way of proving it. That's pretty much been settled. Nick Matthew is the now 3 time World Squash champion and was more deserving than Ainslie. Phil Taylor has been once again utterly dominant in the world of Darts, notching his 16th World Title at the start of the year he has added all the other majors bar the Premier League where he was runner-up. Absolutely shocking that he is not on the list. There are numerous other candidates and World Champions in their chosen sports. Absolutely every single one of them has a better claim to be on the list than Ainslie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) I didn't say the figures would be higher or lower. Just that you're not comparing like-for-like events. I'm neutral me! Remember when Tai won and featured on BBC breakfast? The following week they featured a Brit who won the World Squash Championship. He hasn't been nominated either. Anyone know his name? This British winner of the World Squash Championship? I don't. I'm sure in the world of squash there are plenty of people going into swearing fits on Facebook about how HE should have been nominated too. I'm sure there's plenty of others out there. The Ben Ainslie nomination is maybe a bit tenuous, but even if he hadn't been nominated the next in line wouldn't have been Tai Woffinden. Nick Matthew from Sheffield. Beat a Frenchman Gregory Gaultier 3-2 in the final. At the moment, us squash fans and players are going into 'swearing fits' trying to get our great sport into the 2020 Olympics. Edited November 27, 2013 by Tsunami 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Edited.. The links just seem to take you to the same page. However, if you search for Sky Sports 3 and 4 and click on the relevant weeks, you will find the figures there. Sky Sports 3 w/e 29 Sep 2013 000's 1 WWE LATE NIGHT RAW - LIVE (MON 2500) 165 2 ELCHE V REAL MADRID - LIVE (WED 2055) 62 3 LIVE EUROPEAN TOUR GOLF (SAT 1330) 58 4 REVISTA DE LA LIGA SPECIAL - LIVE/#BARCE (TUE 1800 46 5 THE RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP-ARG V NZ (SUN 1502) 38 6 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (TUE 2100) 30 7 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (MON 2100) 28 8 WWE RAW/#WWE RAW EP 1060 (MON 1702) 27 9 THINKING TACKLE (THU 1900) 26 10 WWE RAW (FRI 1630) 25 w/e 22 Sep 2013 000's 1 MARSEILLE V ARSENAL - LIVE/#MARSEILLE V (WED 1930) 413 2 GALATASARAY V REAL MADRID - LIVE/#GALATA (TUE 1930 104 3 EUROPEAN SENIORS TOUR GOLF (WED 2200) 43 4 LIVE WORLD CUP OF POOL/#WORLD CUP OF POO (SUN 1800 42 5 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF/#BMW CHAMPIONSHIP D5 (MON 1500) 42 6 UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE HIGHLIGHTS/#UEFA C (FRI 1544 33 7 LIVE WORLD CUP OF POOL/#WORLD CUP OF POO (SAT 1801 32 8 THINKING TACKLE (THU 1859) 32 9 WHATS THE STORY?/#AMERICAS CUP 2013 - TE (SUN 2100 27 10 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (THU 2100) 27 w/e 15 Sep 2013 000's 1 ROSS COUNTY V DUNDEE UNITED-LIVE/#ROSS C (SUN 1230 53 2 AS RUN INSERT/##2 2011 CHAMPIONS LEAGUE (SAT 1025) 47 3 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (SAT 1800) 45 4 THINKING TACKLE (THU 1900) 38 5 BRITISH PAR 3 GOLF CHAMPIONSHIP (WED 1900) 35 6 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (SUN 2100) 28 7 WWE BOTTOM LINE/#WWE BOTTOM LINE # 591 (SAT 1030) 25 8 SUPER LEAGUE FULLTIME (MON 1800) 22 9 WWE SMACKDOWN (SAT 0830) 22 10 LIVE CURRIE CUP RUGBY UNION (FRI 1800) 20 w/e 15 Sep 2013 000's 1 WWE LATE NIGHT RAW - LIVE (MON 2500) 169 2 NEW ZEALAND V SOUTH AFRICA - LIVE/#RUGBY (SAT 0800 140 3 LIVE SUPER LEAGUE PLAY-OFF (SAT 1430) 125 4 LIVE SUPER LEAGUE PLAY-OFF (SAT 1701) 116 5 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (FRI 2000) 74 6 ELITE LEAGUE SPEEDWAY (MON 1930) 72 7 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (THU 2000) 63 8 LIVE PGA TOUR GOLF (SUN 1741) 45 9 LIVE LADIES EUROPEAN TOUR GOLF/#EVIAN MA (SUN 1008 44 10 AUSTRALIA V ARGENTINA - LIVE/#RUGBY CHAM (SAT 1054 39 That pretty much ends the debate about how interested the public really were about Ainslies 2013 achievement. Of course he will still get votes, but those will be based upon his name. Just what does all that goobledy-gook mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Update on World Squash Championship. The winner was Nick Matthew. Nick Clegg even wrote a letter to the BBC in support of him getting a nomination. So he was probably above Tai in the reckoning. http://www.psaworldtour.com/news/20131120/nick-clegg-backs-nick-matthew-for-bbc-award_2281852_3543909 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 I didn't say the figures would be higher or lower. Just that you're not comparing like-for-like events. I'm neutral me! Remember when Tai won and featured on BBC breakfast? The following week they featured a Brit who won the World Squash Championship. He hasn't been nominated either. Anyone know his name? This British winner of the World Squash Championship? I don't. I'm sure in the world of squash there are plenty of people going into swearing fits on Facebook about how HE should have been nominated too. I'm sure there's plenty of others out there. The Ben Ainslie nomination is maybe a bit tenuous, but even if he hadn't been nominated the next in line wouldn't have been Tai Woffinden. Tenuous - Criminal more like. He got this nomination on his Olympic Medals. The Olympics was LAST year - this is 2013. :mad: How can you get a nomination for being an 'Advisor' in the America's Cup. He didn't join the Team until it was half over. :mad: Tai probably didn't deserve to win the Title - but - he was a damn sight more worthy than Ainslie. I'm not happy............................................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) Update on World Squash Championship. The winner was Nick Matthew. Nick Clegg even wrote a letter to the BBC in support of him getting a nomination. So he was probably above Tai in the reckoning. http://www.psaworldtour.com/news/20131120/nick-clegg-backs-nick-matthew-for-bbc-award_2281852_3543909 To be fair but, it could be seen to promote the achievements of a constituent, as Nick is based in Sheffield(Cleggs constituency). Edited November 27, 2013 by Tsunami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) Folk know who Ben Ainslie is because its rammed down their throats, they can't escape it. It doesn't mean folk have any great love for sailing. I don't have any great love for tennis either, but I accept a lot of people watch it and the main protagonists are celebrities as a result. Is sailing really a mainstream sport - probably not, but I suspect that a surprising number of people have some interest in it, and it's something that Britain is also quite successful at. Yes, the Americas Cup is just a billionaires' orgy and it's a joke that Ben Ainslie is nominated on the fact of being a technical advisor, but I suspect there are some wildcards amongst the nominees to lead the viewers to the 'correct' choice. At least Britain has some tradition of sailing, unlike cycling. This was a sport with hardly any pedigree or coverage in the UK, and yet two 'British' Tour de France winners later and there are suddenly hordes of lycra-clad individuals on racing bikes causing traffic jams on the country's highways. Phil Taylor has been once again utterly dominant in the world of Darts Yes, but it's tenuous whether darts is really a true sport. Undoubtedly a game of skill, but so are Aunt Sally and Bar Billiards and few would suggest the respective World Champions in those sports should be nominated for SPOTY. Edited November 27, 2013 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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