Mike.Butler Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 maybe handicapping in heats involving reserves is what's being considered? I wouldn't go to watch if so though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naffer Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) maybe handicapping in heats involving reserves is what's being considered? The bees are ahead on that idea we already have havelock. Edited January 5, 2014 by naffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Not read through the thread, so not sure if it has been mentioned.. but. If the heat leaders are going to be against each other even more often than now, it will mean their averages will drop. If the second strings are going to be racing against the NL riders etc, their averages are going to rise quite a bit. It could make a very strange set of figures... and for smart clubs, perhaps opportunities to exploit? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Not read through the thread, so not sure if it has been mentioned.. but. If the heat leaders are going to be against each other even more often than now, it will mean their averages will drop. If the second strings are going to be racing against the NL riders etc, their averages are going to rise quite a bit. It could make a very strange set of figures... and for smart clubs, perhaps opportunities to exploit? Wouldn't rolling averages smooth this out for most riders? For example, a rider who averaged 4 per meeting last season, but scores 8 per meeting in 2014 would see their rolling average go up by one point every seven meetings (assuming rolling averages are calculated over 28 meetings). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Wouldn't rolling averages smooth this out for most riders? For example, a rider who averaged 4 per meeting last season, but scores 8 per meeting in 2014 would see their rolling average go up by one point every seven meetings (assuming rolling averages are calculated over 28 meetings). Yes, it will to an extent. The main issue would be the season end averages. You could end up with such a rider on the same average as a top line rider. Edited January 5, 2014 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yes, it will to an extent. The main issue would be the season end averages. You could end up with such a rider on the same average as a top line rider. It would make the existing CMA a lottery, with a good second string having a better average then a heater leader. I did point this out earlier but no-one seems that bothered. The knock -on effect is that 2nd string with high average, will be replaced with heat leaders because they are better riders, and no one will want to employ 2nd string with those high score. The whole idea of having protected races opens up a big can of worms, and will only ever be a short term fix. Crazy idea.....!!!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yes, it will to an extent. The main issue would be the season end averages. You could end up with such a rider on the same average as a top line rider. It could make for some very interesting pre-playoff changes. As for 2015, the whole system will have to be changed. Again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 It could make for some very interesting pre-playoff changes. As for 2015, the whole system will have to be changed. Again. Or in 2015 a lot of mid order riders with false averages could be dropped unless they increase the team points limit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 It would make the existing CMA a lottery, with a good second string having a better average then a heater leader. I did point this out earlier but no-one seems that bothered. To be fair, a lot of people have mentioned it and a lot of people have been bothered. Second strings could effectively ride themselves out of business for next season if they turn in an 8 point average. Who's going to take a second string on 8 when they can get a heat leader on 6? This could, effectively, see an end to averages being used in team building. They may have tyo go back to grading, with riders assessed on the standard of heat that their scores were attained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Averages will always be up for ridicule and while rolling averages can be good in many ways, it can give a false sense of a riders true ability or form. If the rolling averages are still at 28 (now its a 36 meeting league) these can give false readings. Take Martin Smolinski for instance. Had he been riding this season, even if he scored 7 or 8 in every meeting in the first half of the season, his average would drop quite a bit as the scores at the start of 2013 would disappear. So if a rider had a poor start to the season, then dropped to reserve (ie Patrick Hougaard) then he could score 5 a meeting for the first half of the season but his average would actually rise due to the form he had from mid 2013 while at reserve. So even if he was struggling mid season, his average could be close to seven points a match !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Lets just be honest & say that the sport is a shambles & whilst these new ideas have been brought in for 2014 for the alledged right reasons they are going to cause even more problems with how the proposed race format is done. Stick a 2nd string in easy races & get him an improved average & then bring in the likes of Kasperzak etc to take his place. Lets see how long that takes or will the clowns who refuse to announce the race format come on with a way round that not happening?. Sorry I have no faith in them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Not read through the thread, so not sure if it has been mentioned.. but. If the heat leaders are going to be against each other even more often than now, it will mean their averages will drop. If the second strings are going to be racing against the NL riders etc, their averages are going to rise quite a bit. It could make a very strange set of figures... and for smart clubs, perhaps opportunities to exploit? Wouldn't rolling averages smooth this out for most riders? For example, a rider who averaged 4 per meeting last season, but scores 8 per meeting in 2014 would see their rolling average go up by one point every seven meetings (assuming rolling averages are calculated over 28 meetings). Someone mentioned this days after the AGM, can't think who It's always what makes Poole signing of an assessed rider a bit of genius. He only has to beat the reserves in his 2 rides against them to average 4, if he can beat the second string 2 or 3 times too he will average 6 or 7 without beating much. Then what? Well bring in a 6-7 point rider in June! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 There surely must be measures of some kind in place to adjust CMA's to reflect the strength of the races that heat leaders and second strings will be in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kester Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 There surely must be measures of some kind in place to adjust CMA's to reflect the strength of the races that heat leaders and second strings will be in? You're assuming they've thought it through that far. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 There surely must be measures of some kind in place to adjust CMA's to reflect the strength of the races that heat leaders and second strings will be in? You're not naive enough to think the BSPA are not naive surely? They don't have a race format yet so weighting averages is going to be totally beyond them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 You're not naive enough to think the BSPA are not naive surely? They don't have a race format yet so weighting averages is going to be totally beyond them! They have been weighting to hear if Sky were renewing the TV deal 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 There surely must be measures of some kind in place to adjust CMA's to reflect the strength of the races that heat leaders and second strings will be in? I think they're banking on so few fans paying to see this new watered down league, that they won't have to worry about a 2015 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 You're not naive enough to think the BSPA are not naive surely? They don't have a race format yet so weighting averages is going to be totally beyond them! Since when did they measure averages? ;-) Like we really know if there is a recognised format yet or not! Id would imagine there is however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Someone mentioned this days after the AGM, can't think who It's always what makes Poole signing of an assessed rider a bit of genius. He only has to beat the reserves in his 2 rides against them to average 4, if he can beat the second string 2 or 3 times too he will average 6 or 7 without beating much. Then what? Well bring in a 6-7 point rider in June! I did expect you would (and others) have mentioned it, but haven't paid much attention this off-season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Perhaps it would be more practical if the suggested protected rides for the reserves was rethought. It shouldn't hurt if the reserves occasionally line up with the better riders. There will I presume, always be at least one similar standard opposing rider to race against. Everything would then benefit. The race format would be more sensible. The averages would be more reflective and the so called protected reserves should benefit from riding with and against riders who are better than them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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