When Will The New Race Format Be Out & How Can Teams Name Riders When They Don't Know It?

[TMW]

Didn't you read the post? It's easily achievable. A half decent second string will average 7+ it's asking for a promoter with a will to win to take advantage.

I sincerely hope they all have the will to win

[Tsunami]

The more you read about formats etc the more madness it seems.

 

What the bloody hell are they going to average wise in 2015.

Do try to keep up Cr. already been said that the reserves rides won't give them averages due to the selective opposition.

[Crazy robin]

Do try to keep up Cr. already been said that the reserves rides won't give them averages due to the selective opposition.

Sorry it wasn't meant to be about the reserves average but the riders at 2 & 4 who get easier rides than a rider at 1,3 & 5 so could easily end up with a higher average but an inferior rider.

 

For example a no 1 rides 3 times againgst Iversen & Bjerre.

[SCB]

Matt K good spot. If I alter heat 1 to 1 3 v 1 4 and heat 3 to 4 5 v 3 5 . It would solve that problem. Personally, think the BSA made the statement about keeping the reserves away from the heat leaders without realising how difficult it is to do. Especially if every rider goes out of all four gates during the meeting.

How about doing away with fixed gates then? Just alternate gates 1&3 and 2&4 every heat so each team gets 7 of each in the programmed races. The team mates then pick the gates they'd like form the two. Darcy may think, "I'm a crap gater anyway, I'll let my team mate have the good gate and I'll race for my points" while a gater like say, Bjarne (more so that most others before anyone jumps in) may pick the better gate to be sure of the 3 points. Adds a further team element and something for the team manger to look out for.

[Conkers in Gravy]

Sorry it wasn't meant to be about the reserves average but the riders at 2 & 4 who get easier rides than a rider at 1,3 & 5 so could easily end up with a higher average but an inferior rider.

 

For example a no 1 rides 3 times againgst Iversen & Bjerre.

Isn't it much the same as the current heat format? A second string has a good spell and moves up the averages, taking over a heat leader spot where he has harder rides and either settles in or drops back down again. Don't see the problem.

[SCB]

Isn't it much the same as the current heat format? A second string has a good spell and moves up the averages, taking over a heat leader spot where he has harder rides and either settles in or drops back down again. Don't see the problem.

The current format you have 1 harder race (heat 13) or if you drop down one easier race (heat 2) but this format you'll have 3 harder races. It will make a massive difference.

[Soul Crew]

Be interesting to see who picks up Chris Harris on a 5.00 average in 2015....

[BluPanther]

Be interesting to see who picks up Chris Harris on a 5.00 average in 2015....

The SGP wildcard club will probably be first..

[500cc]

How about doing away with fixed gates then? Just alternate gates 1&3 and 2&4 every heat so each team gets 7 of each in the programmed races. The team mates then pick the gates they'd like form the two. Darcy may think, "I'm a crap gater anyway, I'll let my team mate have the good gate and I'll race for my points" while a gater like say, Bjarne (more so that most others before anyone jumps in) may pick the better gate to be sure of the 3 points. Adds a further team element and something for the team manger to look out for.

I like this in principle, and tactically it makes for more interest. The trouble is persuading the top riders to take a worse gate if they see a risk to their earning potential. Often on this forum people reference back to the higher averages riders attained in the 70's and 80's. One of the factors was that the top riders invariably took the best gates. I suspect when a top rider is up against a rider of a similar level he will resort to demanding the better gate position.

 

I think it adds far more strategy, but I'm not convinced the better riders will fully buy in to it. They shouldn't have a choice, but they will.

[waiheke1]

One of the factors was gate positions, but imho the much bigger factor was introduction of the nominated heat. Were they both introduced in 1988, or did tge fixed positions come in later?

The current format you have 1 harder race (heat 13) or if you drop down one easier race (heat 2) but this format you'll have 3 harder races. It will make a massive difference.

And of course the easy rides will be easier than previous seasons due to the wesker reserves.

[StormMarketing]

has it ever been tried to mix it up with team mates running out of gates 1 & 2 and the opposition running out of 3&4 in a few heats??

[500cc]

has it ever been tried to mix it up with team mates running out of gates 1 & 2 and the opposition running out of 3&4 in a few heats??

Many times, until the ref spots them in the wrong gates and instructs them to move !!!

[Daniel Smith]

has it ever been tried to mix it up with team mates running out of gates 1 & 2 and the opposition running out of 3&4 in a few heats??

This was tried for 1 or 2 seasons in the PLKO Cup but got scrapped as teammates were taking each other out on the 1st turn to often.

[Humphrey Appleby]

One of the factors was gate positions, but imho the much bigger factor was introduction of the nominated heat. Were they both introduced in 1988, or did tge fixed positions come in later?

And of course the easy rides will be easier than previous seasons due to the wesker reserves.

I seem to remember the nominated heat being trialled in 1987 in the KOC, although I can't remember if fixed gates were used as well. Certainly fixed gates came in for 1988.

[Barrycuda]

Ht1 1 2 1 2 Ht2 6 7 6 7 Ht3 4 5 4 5 Ht4 1 3 1 3 Ht5 6 7 6 7 Ht6 3 5 3 5 Ht7 2 7 2 7 Ht8 3 4 5 6 Ht9 5 6 3 4 Ht10 1 2 5 6 Ht11 4 7 4 7 Ht12 5 6 1 2 Ht13 1 2 3 4 Ht14 3 4 1 2 Ht15 N N N N

 

Remove Tactical Ride Rule With Following Points Score System (To stop leading team from sitting on a 8 point lead and to stop losing team from dropping heat points to gain tactical ride)

LEAGUE SCORING SYSTEM

Home loss by any amount of points = 0 (No Change)

Home draw = 1 (No Change)

Home win by between 1 and 6 points = 2 (Home win by between 1 and 10 points = 2)

Home win by 7 points or more = 3 (Home win by 11 points or more = 3)

Away loss by 7 points or more = 0 (Away loss by 11 points or more = 0)

Away loss by 6 points or less = 1 (Away loss by 10 points or less = 1)

Away draw = 2 (No Change)

Away win by between 1 and 6 points = 3 (Away win by between 1 and 10 points = 3)

Away win by 7 points or more = 4 (Away win by 11 points or more = 4)

 

Change Race Points To Following

4points Win

2points Second

1point Third

0point Fourth non finish etc

 

Riders Paid As Following (Not Per Point)

X £ Per Start + X £ Per Win

X £ Per Start + X £ Per Second

X £ Per Start + X £ Per Third

X £ Per Start

[SCB]

Ht1 1 2 1 2 Ht2 6 7 6 7 Ht3 4 5 4 5 Ht4 1 3 1 3 Ht5 6 7 6 7 Ht6 3 5 3 5 Ht7 2 7 2 7 Ht8 3 4 5 6 Ht9 5 6 3 4 Ht10 1 2 5 6 Ht11 4 7 4 7 Ht12 5 6 1 2 Ht13 1 2 3 4 Ht14 3 4 1 2 Ht15 N N N N

 

Remove Tactical Ride Rule With Following Points Score System (To stop leading team from sitting on a 8 point lead and to stop losing team from dropping heat points to gain tactical ride)

LEAGUE SCORING SYSTEM

Home loss by any amount of points = 0 (No Change)

Home draw = 1 (No Change)

Home win by between 1 and 6 points = 2 (Home win by between 1 and 10 points = 2)

Home win by 7 points or more = 3 (Home win by 11 points or more = 3)

Away loss by 7 points or more = 0 (Away loss by 11 points or more = 0)

Away loss by 6 points or less = 1 (Away loss by 10 points or less = 1)

Away draw = 2 (No Change)

Away win by between 1 and 6 points = 3 (Away win by between 1 and 10 points = 3)

Away win by 7 points or more = 4 (Away win by 11 points or more = 4)

 

Change Race Points To Following

4points Win

2points Second

1point Third

0point Fourth non finish etc

 

Riders Paid As Following (Not Per Point)

X £ Per Start + X £ Per Win

X £ Per Start + X £ Per Second

X £ Per Start + X £ Per Third

X £ Per Start

 

Thats made up, right?

[philfromcov]

how about 2 for a win i for a draw and a bonus point over the two legs?

 

seemed so simple at the time

[Chalkie]

how about 2 for a win i for a draw and a bonus point over the two legs?

 

seemed so simple at the time

Couldn't agree more!

[TonyE]

Ht1 1 2 1 2 Ht2 6 7 6 7 Ht3 4 5 4 5 Ht4 1 3 1 3 Ht5 6 7 6 7 Ht6 3 5 3 5 Ht7 2 7 2 7 Ht8 3 4 5 6 Ht9 5 6 3 4 Ht10 1 2 5 6 Ht11 4 7 4 7 Ht12 5 6 1 2 Ht13 1 2 3 4 Ht14 3 4 1 2 Ht15 N N N N

 

Remove Tactical Ride Rule With Following Points Score System (To stop leading team from sitting on a 8 point lead and to stop losing team from dropping heat points to gain tactical ride)

LEAGUE SCORING SYSTEM

Home loss by any amount of points = 0 (No Change)

Home draw = 1 (No Change)

Home win by between 1 and 6 points = 2 (Home win by between 1 and 10 points = 2)

Home win by 7 points or more = 3 (Home win by 11 points or more = 3)

Away loss by 7 points or more = 0 (Away loss by 11 points or more = 0)

Away loss by 6 points or less = 1 (Away loss by 10 points or less = 1)

Away draw = 2 (No Change)

Away win by between 1 and 6 points = 3 (Away win by between 1 and 10 points = 3)

Away win by 7 points or more = 4 (Away win by 11 points or more = 4)

 

Change Race Points To Following

4points Win

2points Second

1point Third

0point Fourth non finish etc

 

Riders Paid As Following (Not Per Point)

X £ Per Start + X £ Per Win

X £ Per Start + X £ Per Second

X £ Per Start + X £ Per Third

X £ Per Start

 

And rider averages are calculated by ........?

[Barrycuda]

Yes meeting heat format made up (Not set in stone)

 

Swedish League riders average based on heat points average rather than meeting points average

 

Like most people following speedway have not got the answer to everything. Just a few thoughts for the rest of you to think and talk about

 

One other thought regarding meeting heat formats. How about 3 times 5 heat sets with point for each set won + 2points for highest total match score over the 15 heats (Each set starting from zero scores)