waiheke1 Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Very true Skidder - but what happens when they turn to the regular Supporter to ask for help with the Programme (I have helped a number of folk over the years) and the reply to the new Supporter: Sorry I haven't a clue how to go on with this. It won't look good - so at least some advance warning of what is to happen really would be useful for everybody. Unless there is a change in the number of nominated races, the race format shouldnt impact in anyway on how to fill in the programme? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) There is one format that I developed when they were looking a something different for the KO Cup and with a few little changes it could work here ..... but it will NOT be the new race format. Basically there would be a reserves race in heats 1 and 8 with the other races having just one programmed rider and one nominated rider for each team. This would give team managers a job to try and get the best out of each race by nominating the right ridr at the right time. This is an example only of a match between Wolves and Kings Lynn In heats 2-7 each team selects a top 5 rider ineach of the heats and one reserve. (A rider can only be nominated once in these heats obviously.)Then in heats 9-14 this is repeated. NOTE; Before the meeting starts, each team manager hands in his nominated riders for heats 2-7. Then once heat 8 is run, they must had in their nominations for races 9-14. These are done on official sheets/cards and can NOT be seen by the opposing manager so the can't manipulate who their top rider faces. < HT01; Ashley Morris, Joe Jacobs, Lewis Kerr, Lewis Rose > HT02 ; Tai Woffinden, .............. , Kenneth Bjerre, .............. > HT03 ; Ricky Wells, .............. , Rory Schlein, .............. < HT04 ; Jacob Thorssell, .............. , Roger Lambert, .............. > HT05 ; Tyron Proctor, .............. , Nicolas Porsing, .............. < HT06 ; Joe Jacobs, .............. , Lewis Rose, .............. > HT07 ; Piotr Pawlicki, .............. , Niels K Iversen, .............. > HT08 ; Joe Jacobs, Ashley Morris, Lewis Rose, Lewis Kerr < HT09 ; Ricky Wells, .............. , Nicolas Porsing, .............. > HT10 ; Jacob Thorssell, .............. , Roger Lambert, .............. < HT11 ; Tyron Proctor, .............. , Rory Schlein, ............. < HT12 ; Piotr Pawlicki, .............. , Kenneth Bjerre, .............. > HT13 ; Ashley Morris, .............. , Lewis Kerr, .............. < HT14 ; Tai Woffinden, .............. Niels K Iversen, .............. <>HT15 ; .............. , .............. , .............. , .............. This gives the reserves two races together, but they could be out with anyone in the other two heats however it is unlikely a team will select a top rider in these races as this could mean they have two consecutive races and would want to place their top men against the opposing top men. They will face a reserve however in each race Each teams fifth rider face each other twice in programmed rides but are likely to be alongside a heat leader in their two nominated races to avoid two races in a row. Gate positions are riders in Red and White taking the inside gates. Teams can flick a coin to decide which set of gates they wish to take. The options are races marked < or > Heat 15 remains a nominated race for the top scorers / heat leaders. NOTE; This is only an example of a format I developed a few years ago This 8is how it could look after managers have nominated < HT01; Ashley Morris, Joe Jacobs, Lewis Kerr, Lewis Rose > HT02 ; Tai Woffinden, Jacob Thorssell , Kenneth Bjerre, Niels K Iversen > HT03 ; Ricky Wells, Piotr Pawlicki , Rory Schlein, Lewis Rose < HT04 ; Jacob Thorssell, Ashley Morris , Roger Lambert, Nicolas Porsing > HT05 ; Tyron Proctor, Tai Woffinden , Nicolas Porsing, Rory Schlein < HT06 ; Joe Jacobs, Ricky Wells, Lewis Rose, Kenneth Bjerre > HT07 ; Piotr Pawlicki, Tyron Proctor , Niels K Iversen, Robert Lambert > HT08 ; Joe Jacobs, Ashley Morris, Lewis Rose, Lewis Kerr < HT09 ; Ricky Wells, Piotr Pawlicki , Nicolas Porsing, Robert Lambert > HT10 ; Jacob Thorssell, Joe Jacobs , Roger Lambert, Kenneth Bjerre < HT11 ; Tyron Proctor, Tai Woffinden , Rory Schlein, Lewis Kerr < HT12 ; Piotr Pawlicki, Ricky Wells , Kenneth Bjerre, Niels K Iversen > HT13 ; Ashley Morris, Jacob Thorssell , Lewis Kerr, Nicolas Porsing < HT14 ; Tai Woffinden, Tyron Proctor Niels K Iversen, Rory Schlein <>HT15 ; .............. , .............. , .............. , .............. Edited February 8, 2014 by T.N.T. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandking072 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 There is one format that I developed when they were looking a something different for the KO Cup and with a few little changes it could work here ..... but it will NOT be the new race format. Basically there would be a reserves race in heats 1 and 8 with the other races having just one programmed rider and one nominated rider for each team. This would give team managers a job to try and get the best out of each race by nominating the right ridr at the right time. This is an example only of a match between Wolves and Kings Lynn In heats 2-7 each team selects a top 5 rider ineach of the heats and one reserve. (A rider can only be nominated once in these heats obviously.)Then in heats 9-14 this is repeated. NOTE; Before the meeting starts, each team manager hands in his nominated riders for heats 2-7. Then once heat 8 is run, they must had in their nominations for races 9-14. These are done on official sheets/cards and can NOT be seen by the opposing manager so the can't manipulate who their top rider faces. < HT01; Ashley Morris, Joe Jacobs, Lewis Kerr, Lewis Rose > HT02 ; Tai Woffinden, .............. , Kenneth Bjerre, .............. > HT03 ; Ricky Wells, .............. , Rory Schlein, .............. < HT04 ; Jacob Thorssell, .............. , Roger Lambert, .............. > HT05 ; Tyron Proctor, .............. , Nicolas Porsing, .............. < HT06 ; Joe Jacobs, .............. , Lewis Rose, .............. > HT07 ; Piotr Pawlicki, .............. , Niels K Iversen, .............. > HT08 ; Joe Jacobs, Ashley Morris, Lewis Rose, Lewis Kerr < HT09 ; Ricky Wells, .............. , Nicolas Porsing, .............. > HT10 ; Jacob Thorssell, .............. , Roger Lambert, .............. < HT11 ; Tyron Proctor, .............. , Rory Schlein, ............. < HT12 ; Piotr Pawlicki, .............. , Kenneth Bjerre, .............. > HT13 ; Ashley Morris, .............. , Lewis Kerr, .............. < HT14 ; Tai Woffinden, .............. Niels K Iversen, .............. <>HT15 ; .............. , .............. , .............. , .............. This gives the reserves two races together, but they could be out with anyone in the other two heats however it is unlikely a team will select a top rider in these races as this could mean they have two consecutive races and would want to place their top men against the opposing top men. They will face a reserve however in each race Each teams fifth rider face each other twice in programmed rides but are likely to be alongside a heat leader in their two nominated races to avoid two races in a row. Gate positions are riders in Red and White taking the inside gates. Teams can flick a coin to decide which set of gates they wish to take. The options are races marked < or > Heat 15 remains a nominated race for the top scorers / heat leaders. NOTE; This is only an example of a format I developed a few years ago This 8is how it could look after managers have nominated < HT01; Ashley Morris, Joe Jacobs, Lewis Kerr, Lewis Rose > HT02 ; Tai Woffinden, Jacob Thorssell , Kenneth Bjerre, Niels K Iversen > HT03 ; Ricky Wells, Piotr Pawlicki , Rory Schlein, Lewis Rose < HT04 ; Jacob Thorssell, Ashley Morris , Roger Lambert, Nicolas Porsing > HT05 ; Tyron Proctor, Tai Woffinden , Nicolas Porsing, Rory Schlein < HT06 ; Joe Jacobs, Ricky Wells, Lewis Rose, Kenneth Bjerre > HT07 ; Piotr Pawlicki, Tyron Proctor , Niels K Iversen, Robert Lambert > HT08 ; Joe Jacobs, Ashley Morris, Lewis Rose, Lewis Kerr < HT09 ; Ricky Wells, Piotr Pawlicki , Nicolas Porsing, Robert Lambert > HT10 ; Jacob Thorssell, Joe Jacobs , Roger Lambert, Kenneth Bjerre < HT11 ; Tyron Proctor, Tai Woffinden , Rory Schlein, Lewis Kerr < HT12 ; Piotr Pawlicki, Ricky Wells , Kenneth Bjerre, Niels K Iversen > HT13 ; Ashley Morris, Jacob Thorssell , Lewis Kerr, Nicolas Porsing < HT14 ; Tai Woffinden, Tyron Proctor Niels K Iversen, Rory Schlein <>HT15 ; .............. , .............. , .............. , .............. So, in other words, a bit like 1998 then? A combination of ink manufacturers getting rich and writer's cramp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Some of the comments on this thread do tickle me. Speedway is in dire straights because we don't know the race format. Really? Fans won't turn up because we don't know the race format. Really? How do we explain the program to a newbie. Really? It'll be right in front of your eyes for goodness sake. No different to to the old programme. Rider's 1-7's, gate positions, heats etc will all be self explanatory to the experienced spectator. Some need to get a grip, in principle I've come round to the new format idea and for a change the BSPA are taking their time to make it fit rather than rushing it through. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Some of the comments on this thread do tickle me. Speedway is in dire straights because we don't know the race format. Really? Fans won't turn up because we don't know the race format. Really? How do we explain the program to a newbie. Really? It'll be right in front of your eyes for goodness sake. No different to to the old programme. Rider's 1-7's, gate positions, heats etc will all be self explanatory to the experienced spectator. Some need to get a grip, in principle I've come round to the new format idea and for a change the BSPA are taking their time to make it fit rather than rushing it through. Absolutely spot on screamer... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Some of the comments on this thread do tickle me. Speedway is in dire straights because we don't know the race format. Really? Fans won't turn up because we don't know the race format. Really? How do we explain the program to a newbie. Really? It'll be right in front of your eyes for goodness sake. No different to to the old programme. Rider's 1-7's, gate positions, heats etc will all be self explanatory to the experienced spectator. Some need to get a grip, in principle I've come round to the new format idea and for a change the BSPA are taking their time to make it fit rather than rushing it through. Rushing it through ?? Conference decision mid-November now Early February Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I've come round to the new format idea What is it? Some of the comments on this thread do tickle me. Speedway is in dire straights because we don't know the race format. Really? Fans won't turn up because we don't know the race format. Really? How do we explain the program to a newbie. Really? It'll be right in front of your eyes for goodness sake. No different to to the old programme. Rider's 1-7's, gate positions, heats etc will all be self explanatory to the experienced spectator. Some need to get a grip, in principle I've come round to the new format idea and for a change the BSPA are taking their time to make it fit rather than rushing it through. My guess is they are taking their time as they are now realising the impact of such a ridiculous unthought through decision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Some of the comments on this thread do tickle me. Speedway is in dire straights because we don't know the race format. Really? Fans won't turn up because we don't know the race format. Really? How do we explain the program to a newbie. Really? It'll be right in front of your eyes for goodness sake. No different to to the old programme. Rider's 1-7's, gate positions, heats etc will all be self explanatory to the experienced spectator. Some need to get a grip, in principle I've come round to the new format idea and for a change the BSPA are taking their time to make it fit rather than rushing it through. No comments on here tickle me as much as your have. You say you have come round to the new format idea, yet , as of this moment, we don't know what that idea is or how it will effect the meeting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Some of the comments on this thread do tickle me. Speedway is in dire straights because we don't know the race format. Really? Fans won't turn up because we don't know the race format. Really? How do we explain the program to a newbie. Really? It'll be right in front of your eyes for goodness sake. No different to to the old programme. Rider's 1-7's, gate positions, heats etc will all be self explanatory to the experienced spectator. Some need to get a grip, in principle I've come round to the new format idea and for a change the BSPA are taking their time to make it fit rather than rushing it through. Of course not knowing the race format isn't the problem. Good lord I do wonder if some of you can actually read! The problem is coming up with a sensible format. Can't you understand that simple difference? Try understanding the problem before shooting your mouth off and trying to ridicule others, eh? It's clear a lot of supporters can't see the problem. I'm sure they'll be the first to bleat if they're watching awful meetings with riders being hopelessly mismatched. Mind you, as long as their team wins I guess they'll be happy.... Edited February 8, 2014 by rmc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Of course not knowing the race format isn't the problem. Good lord I do wonder if some of you can actually read! The problem is coming up with a sensible format. Can't you understand that simple difference? Try understanding the problem before shooting your mouth off and trying to ridicule others, eh? It's clear a lot of supporters can't see the problem. I'm sure they'll be the first to bleat if they're watching awful meetings with riders being hopelessly mismatched. Mind you, as long as their team wins I guess they'll be happy.... Do you think the BSPA are trying to come up with a non competitive race format then ? I assume the opposite would actually be the case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Of course not knowing the race format isn't the problem. Good lord I do wonder if some of you can actually read! The problem is coming up with a sensible format. Can't you understand that simple difference? Try understanding the problem before shooting your mouth off and trying to ridicule others, eh? It's clear a lot of supporters can't see the problem. I'm sure they'll be the first to bleat if they're watching awful meetings with riders being hopelessly mismatched. Mind you, as long as their team wins I guess they'll be happy.... ^^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Of course not knowing the race format isn't the problem. Good lord I do wonder if some of you can actually read! The problem is coming up with a sensible format. Can't you understand that simple difference? Try understanding the problem before shooting your mouth off and trying to ridicule others, eh? It's clear a lot of supporters can't see the problem. I'm sure they'll be the first to bleat if they're watching awful meetings with riders being hopelessly mismatched. Mind you, as long as their team wins I guess they'll be happy.... So does that mean you think most of us are hoping for a ridiculous format? As we can't understand that the problem is coming up with a sensible format it's lucky you were able to inform us of our inability to understand the obvious We don't want to see awful meetings and hopeless mismatches now do we. Oh wait a minute wasn't that what we saw last year a lot of the time I think the problem for the BSPA is perhaps thier aspirations exceed their abilities. But then what do I know 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 So, in other words, a bit like 1998 then? A combination of ink manufacturers getting rich and writer's cramp. In 1998 we had just a few races with a nominated rider in blue and yellow. This was done mainly to keep the top boys happy with an extra race so they had five or six races a night insted of four or five giving them an extra £500+ a night. The format I put on the previous page is only one format I have done and I did say in the post that this is NOT the format ...... but I do believe it gives managers different options, interesting races, keeps the fans entertained and matches the same standard of riders against each other more often and less likely to see riders like Woffinden and Ward going against Porsing or Ellis where the race is over by turn one. There are a number of rae formats that can be used or adapted qute easily and I must admit that if I had known in November what the teams were built like, I would have had at least three formats done within a week to be looked at. Who is doing the new format ? ..... Why is it taking so much time ? ........ Whoever or Whenever it is basically already been indicated how it will look and I'm sure it will be out soon. So until then, there is hardly any team places left to fill, the GP rders have been named and the fixtures are out ..... So it's hardly suprising the main conversation is the race format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 This is the bit I don't understand. The supporters are treated with such contempt. It is as though we are mushrooms. ( Kept in the dark and fed on s.ite) This is the crux of the matter, isn't it. I wonder which Elite League club will be the first to issue a thinly veined "use it or lose it" threat to their fans, despite treating them with contempt all winter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Do you think the BSPA are trying to come up with a non competitive race format then ? I assume the opposite would actually be the case... They wouldn't have tinkered so much in the first place if they wanted that. Just work around what they had and get some stabilty, instead of ripping it up and starting again. Whoever is trying to make their master plan competitive and acceptable to paying punters must be at the "My head hurts" stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 It's a shame they didn't ask TNT as he has seemed to be able to get a format done in days rather than months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenspoon Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 As has been reported by "Phil the Ace" the Format has already been decided, Chris Morton says it is Format B1 whatever that might be, so why the delay in letting everyone else know what it is ? Are there other things happening, that are tied in with the new format, such as where are the Tactical rides going to be, and who will replace who in cases of injury etc. during a meeting. Perhaps Sky have been involved, and want a new Mickey Mouse rule to falsify the final scores and make the meeting look to be more exciting. We will all just have to wait and see, the BSPA's security must have improved, as usually by now, someone purports to be in the know, and have leaked the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud panther Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Whatever format they come up with, the fact remains that they are charging Elite prices for a part National & Premier product.This is wrong in my opinion, & i'm happy that Panthers are in the Premier, & charging the product accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Whatever format they come up with, the fact remains that they are charging Elite prices for a part National & Premier product.This is wrong in my opinion, & i'm happy that Panthers are in the Premier, & charging the product accordingly. You haven't seen the product yet. We've yet to see the knock on of all this to the seemingly relatively stable PL. Edited February 9, 2014 by Crump99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Whatever format they come up with, the fact remains that they are charging Elite prices for a part National & Premier product.This is wrong in my opinion, & i'm happy that Panthers are in the Premier, & charging the product accordingly. Premier League Peterborough Ryan Fisher Ales Dryml Lasse Bjerre Ulrich Ostergaard Lewis Blackbird Joe Jacobs Oliver Greenwood = £15.00 Elite League King's Lynn Niels Kristian Iversen Kenneth Bjerre Rory Schlein Nicklas Porsing Robert Lambert Lewis Kerr Lewis Rose = £16.00 I don't believe you'll be seeing better value for money than we will at the Norfolk Arena do you? Up against each other you wouldn't get close home or away and we get that for just an extra £1. That's value 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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