Barrycuda Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 For thoughs who are not interested to find out or discuss said topic with interest you can always put one's head in the sand and whistle through one's discharge orifice if you like no skin of my nose. I'm well chilled out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 In your eyes obviously steve. :rolleyes: Correct, and in a lot of others eyes too - feel free to choose to ignore that. If you believe that the PL is aptly named then you cannot argue that so is the EL. In the real world neither live up to its billing. It is clear from your posts that you are anti EL but are blind to see that the PL is not perfect. We all get it, you are a PL snob - and are happy to slate EL snobs as well! Hypocrisy of the highest order. I fail to see how a race format has any bearing on anything at this stage. What possible difference it will make to the average supporter or sponsor is probably zero. We will all know when its announced, so why the need to know yesterday ? Its only a bleedin racecard...chill out. Come on now blupanther, you cannot stop some wasting their time and energy to all probably be miles off what the format WILL be! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 I have no doubts when this new format is announced, there will be teething problems. so probably it would be best to make the announcement sooner rather than later. This would enable time for these problems to get aired and rectified.... After which, you can then say; JOB SORTED. MAYBE ...... Maybe there is testing on how things will look in a few months by running ghost matches to see how it affects certain positions and how it could affect riders averages. I fail to see how a race format has any bearing on anything at this stage. What possible difference it will make to the average supporter or sponsor is probably zero. We will all know when its announced, so why the need to know yesterday ? Its only a bleedin racecard...chill out. For a sponsor they want to see their backing helping a rider progress but also get their name promoted well. If a race format comes out that could make it difficult for a certain rider to progress then they will think twice about baking them or think they have wastedtheir money. Take Ty Proctor for example only. There is not a third heat leader in the league with an average as low as his, so he is rated (by averages) as the weakest heat leader in 2014. If a format comes out that sees him racing most times against riders with higher averages with no heat 8 scenarios where he could be the strongest rider in that race, then a good night could be 4 paid 6. However if he gets one ride with a second string like Ricky Wells and two races alongside reserves, then he could be looking more at 7 paid 8 and scoring points helps keep sponsors happy and possibly get new sponsors. There no doubt will be a few loopholes and trying to accomodate two reserves is something that should mean a few riders will get some harder races especially heat leaders as the #5 was scheduled to ride with reserves three times upto now but in 2014 riders like Chris Harrsi, Davey Watt and Troy Batchelor will now be in tougher races with second strings or fellow heat leaders. Th format could suit some and not others ...... which could be a reason they cant agree on it at the moment too !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrycuda Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 "Come on now blupanther, you cannot stop some wasting their time and energy to all probably be miles off what the format WILL be!" Don't remember a law against wasting time and energy and even been probably miles off or not. I shall have to look that one up before they take me away once again Remember this "They're Coming to Take me Away, Ha-Haaa!"Napoleon XIV the original http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4 Well now what about this Napoleon XIV - They're Coming To Get Me Again, Ha-Haaa! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HQ5ZbaMJ-w Remember when they took meTo the funny farmFor acting like a lunaticBecause you ran away?HAH?Well, that was many years agoAnd now at last they've let me outI've finally made them thinkI'm perfectly saneBUT...They're coming to get me again, ha haThey're coming to take me away again, hee hee, ho hoTo the looney binWhere life was ludicrous all the timeAnd I'm just crazy aboutThose big strong goonsWith their clean white nets'Cause they're coming to get me again, HA-HAAA!I thought you were my friendAnd so I trusted youBelieved in youThe day you swore you'd always be my petBUT...I trusted you, you know I didI did, I really didBut then you hidAnd I'm not really totally curedSO...They're coming to get me again, ha haThey're coming to put me away again, hoo hoo, hey heyIn the rubber roomWith fleas and towers and burping nerdsAnd pimple poppers who sweat and sneerAnd squiggle and squeeze and squirtAnd they're coming to get me again, HA-HAAA!I scrubbed your toesI cleaned your cageBut all you ever did was pay me backWith cruel, unloving, selfish deedsYES...Well, now I'm freeSo just you waitI'll find you soonAnd when I do I'll swing you by your tail, you hairy ape!AND...They're coming to get me again, ha haThey're coming to take me away again, hee hee, ho hoTo the looney binWhere life was ludicrous all the timeAnd I'm just crazy aboutThose big strong goonsWith their clean white nets'Cause they're coming to get me again, HA-HAAA!To the rubber roomWith fleas and towers and burping nerdsAnd pimple poppers who sweat and sneerAnd squiggle and squeeze and squirtAnd they're coming to get me again, HA-HAAA!To the looney binWhere life was ludicrous all the timeAnd I´m just crazy aboutThose big strong goonsWith their clean white nets'Cause they're coming to get me again, HA-HAAA!To the happy homeWith trees and flowers and chirping birdsAnd basket weavers...To the funny farmWhere life was beautiful all the timeAnd I'll be happy...OH, NO! :rofl: :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrycuda Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Who is it that is sorting out the change in race format...???. The Speedway Control Bureau or the British Speedway Promoters Association. Which one of the two is slow at coming forward. When will the Speedway Rules and Regulations Book be printed and be issued to relevant parties. So until we know the official race format for 2014 the only one that stands official at the moment is the 2013 race format until other wise known. The quietness over this is very deafening. Cannot compare speedway with other sports but could not see eg football if they had draft players having 22.5 minutes together alone/draft and reserve team players 22.5 minutes/reserve and first team players 22.5 minutes/first team players the other 22.5 minutes per match. Your either all in it together or not at all to gain experience. Cannot force riders where to ride or not to double up but some top riders in the Premier League would have been better riding in the Elite League so to equalize team strengths and standardisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) This is NOT the format but just put together in under ten minutes. Reserves are given two races against each other and mostly their other races are against or with second strings. Heat leaders are matched against each other more often but the #1 gets to ride along side each of his team mates except reserves. Second strings get a few tough races but also a few that sees them as he main rider in the race and partnering a reserve. NOTE; Teams line up in order of averages SWINDON V POOLE Peter Kildemand ......... - 1 - .......... Darcy Ward Troy Batchelor ............ - 2 - ......... Shamek Pawlicki Nick Morris .................. - 3 - ......... Maciej Janowski Simon Gustafsson ...... - 4 - .......... Josh Gracjzonek Nicolai Klindt ............... - 5 - .......... Vaclav Milik Kyle Hughes ............... - 6 - ......... Steve Worrall Lee Smart .................. - 7 - .......... Darryl Ritchings 1 5 1 5 6 7 6 7 2 4 2 4 3 6 3 6 5 7 5 7 1 4 2 3 2 3 1 4 4 7 3 6 3 5 2 5 6 7 6 7 interval 1 2 1 2 5 6 4 7 1 3 1 3 2 4 4 5 N N N N This was done in 10 minutes ....... if I was being paid and wanted to take more time and detail then I could have one done by Monday but would everyone agree with it UNLIKELY Edited February 2, 2014 by T.N.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 In a matter of minutes here is another version. The #5 gets a few easier rides but is much the same, the higher you get in the team, the harder the races and the #1's clash every tim they appear ..... Woffy v Ward ...... Kildemand v Iversen ...... 5 times a night !!! 6 7 6 7 1 4 1 4 2 3 2 3 5 6 5 6 4 7 4 7 1 3 1 3 2 4 2 4 5 7 5 6 1 2 1 2 3 4 3 4 6 7 6 7 1 5 1 5 2 3 2 3 5 6 5 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Exactly TNT, you have just proved it's not as easily as first imagined. Their are flaws with both ideas. Example 1: Heat 4 has a heat leaders against a reserves, and Example 2: has repetitive races. I have always imagine this protective races was an after-thought that was added on to the idea when trying to implement the draft riders. I have seen many alternatives but they all have individual issues. I appreciate the difficulties in arranging the perfect format and wait the announcement with anticipation. I fail to see how a race format has any bearing on anything at this stage. What possible difference it will make to the average supporter or sponsor is probably zero. We will all know when its announced, so why the need to know yesterday ? Its only a bleedin racecard...chill out. I use to give you more credit than that. but following that statement, I not so sure... It's far more important than just 'bleedin racecard...' it dictates the whole meeting. It's the whole sport of speedway. If the races are going to be repetitive with riders racing against the same people all time then I for one will not be going week in week out. and I won't be the only one. This is a big Issue that has to be sorted.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Most of the top riders eg Ward, Iversen, Batchelor, Zagar have voiced their preference to have more races against other top riders. They want to 'pit their wits' and match their skills' against riders of similar quality. They want to enjoy their racing - not be leading races by half a lap or whatever!! I don't particularly want to use Poole again as a good example - but they already have every one of the 15 heats sponsored; all the main sponsors still in place, plus a few more; and are well on the way to having every meeting sponsored - and just for the record I don't think the Promoters were at all fussed which of the 3 format options were finally selected! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Most of the top riders eg Ward, Iversen, Batchelor, Zagar have voiced their preference to have more races against other top riders. They want to 'pit their wits' and match their skills' against riders of similar quality. They want to enjoy their racing - not be leading races by half a lap or whatever!! I don't particularly want to use Poole again as a good example - but they already have every one of the 15 heats sponsored; all the main sponsors still in place, plus a few more; and are well on the way to having every meeting sponsored - and just for the record I don't think the Promoters were at all fussed which of the 3 format options were finally selected! Which just goes to prove the unrevealed new race format had no bearing on Poole's successful commercial policies.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) It's far more important than just 'bleedin racecard...' it dictates the whole meeting. It's the whole sport of speedway. If the races are going to be repetitive with riders racing against the same people all time then I for one will not be going week in week out. and I won't be the only one. This is a big Issue that has to be sorted.. Exactly. It's deeply frustrating that people prattle on about minor issues just to prove their team's better than their rivals but when we come to something that is going to fundamentally affect the meetings we attend they totally fail to grasp the importance, whinge and tell people to shut up! Perhaps those who are unable to understand the problem really ought to stick to their own playground threads? The silence from the BSPA does suggest that someone is finding it equally tough to come up with a solution and perhaps it's finally being realised just how difficult it is going to be to make it work. If you shield reserves from heat-leaders while the reserves get easier rides the flip side of the coin is that heat leaders get harder rides which while potentially great for the fans won't go down too well with many riders! So it's not 'just a bleedin' racecard', it's making sure that the meetings don't constantly feature young reserves trailing round half a lap behind. If you don't think that's a problem then the sport's not the only one with a problem. Edited February 2, 2014 by rmc 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brummie Boy Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Exactly. It's deeply frustrating that people prattle on about minor issues just to prove their team's better than their rivals but when we come to something that is going to fundamentally affect the meetings we attend they totally fail to grasp the importance, whinge and tell people to shut up! Perhaps those who are unable to understand the problem really ought to stick to their own playground threads? The silence from the BSPA does suggest that someone is finding it equally tough to come up with a solution and perhaps it's finally being realised just how difficult it is going to be to make it work. If you shield reserves from heat-leaders while the reserves get easier rides the flip side of the coin is that heat leaders get harder rides which while potentially great for the fans won't go down too well with many riders! So it's not 'just a bleedin' racecard', it's making sure that the meetings don't constantly feature young reserves trailing round half a lap behind. If you don't think that's a problem then the sport's not the only one with a problem. Spot on MC. I cannot believe we are still waiting to see what the race formats are going to be for next year's meetings. If they go with the rumoured format, then we are going to see some very strange rider averages at the end of the season. That should make team building for 2015 interesting..... I am also wondering, now that Sky have confirmed they are on board, if they are telling the BSPA they need to rethink the race formats as there are going to be too many follow my leader races next year due to the massive difference in rider abilities in some of the races. Even looking at the differences between reserves and some of the second strings there are going to be many races which will be total non-events. Edited February 2, 2014 by Brummie Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Of course it will mean changing the way averages are used/calculated in 2015!! That was always going to be the case when 2 young Brits are included at reserve - no matter what the racing format!! No body wants 'strung-out races' - not fans, not Sky. and not the riders - neither the top riders nor the reserves!! I am sure there are formats that will make for better racing and at the same time 'protect' those riders that need 'protecting' within the 15 heat format. Clubs have been asked to give their preference to 1 of 3 options. If the chosen option is announced today, I can just imagine the various threads that will spring up - both pro and anti the chosen format!! Another month without that debate will do me!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Of course it will mean changing the way averages are used/calculated in 2015!! That was always going to be the case when 2 young Brits are included at reserve - no matter what the racing format!! No body wants 'strung-out races' - not fans, not Sky. and not the riders - neither the top riders nor the reserves!! I am sure there are formats that will make for better racing and at the same time 'protect' those riders that need 'protecting' within the 15 heat format. Clubs have been asked to give their preference to 1 of 3 options. If the chosen option is announced today, I can just imagine the various threads that will spring up - both pro and anti the chosen format!! Another month without that debate will do me!! Come now, Nobody forces you to partake in any debate, you do so at your own accord. How you can rubbish this important issue is beyond me. Considering some of the rubbish thread on here, that you and others, are more than happy to partake, this issue is paramount to our sport. What a pity, the 3 options wasn't deemed important enough to post them on one of the media networks, so the supporters could air their concerns as well......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Correct, and in a lot of others eyes too - feel free to choose to ignore that. If you believe that the PL is aptly named then you cannot argue that so is the EL. In the real world neither live up to its billing. It is clear from your posts that you are anti EL but are blind to see that the PL is not perfect. We all get it, you are a PL snob - and are happy to slate EL snobs as well! Hypocrisy of the highest order. Come on now blupanther, you cannot stop some wasting their time and energy to all probably be miles off what the format WILL be! Whatever happened to "attack the Post - not the Poster". At least I don't sink to name calling. Ooops - apart from the so called 'Elite' League of course. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Whatever happened to "attack the Post - not the Poster". At least I don't sink to name calling. Ooops - apart from the so called 'Elite' League of course. :rolleyes: Says the person that labels some EL supporters as `EL snobs`. Still nothing `premier` about the PL by your own opinion. You mistake `attack` by pointing out your obvious hypocrisy. You cant attack the indefensible. But we know you will still attack all things `Elite`. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Says the person that labels some EL supporters as `EL snobs`. Still nothing `premier` about the PL by your own opinion. You mistake `attack` by pointing out your obvious hypocrisy. You cant attack the indefensible. But we know you will still attack all things `Elite`. How can a League fielding TWO National League Riders be 'Elite' - really steve, you are grasping at straws. I agree the 'Premier' is a bit unfortunate as a name - but - at least we will have well balanced Teams in our League. I am amazed that 'Elite' League Supporters are not up in arms about this further devaluation of their League. However that's not my problem. 'Elite' - don't make me laugh. :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 How can a League fielding TWO National League Riders be 'Elite' - really steve, you are grasping at straws. I agree the 'Premier' is a bit unfortunate as a name - but - at least we will have well balanced Teams in our League. I am amazed that 'Elite' League Supporters are not up in arms about this further devaluation of their League. However that's not my problem. 'Elite' - don't make me laugh. :rofl: I have already stated that both leagues are inappropriately named. The EL has fallen well down the order for priorities for top riders, but at least we still have some of the best in our league- including our World Champion. I cant be much happier than that. As i have stated before i would rather have promising BRITISH kids taking up the EL berths than the likes of the Drymls milking our league in a position they shouldn't be in. Obviously i would like ALL the top guys here, but that isn't going to happen - no matter how we get our league right. However you seem to take great delight in kicking the EL at every opportunity which quite frankly i find a little sad and instead defend a league (inappropriately named) that has no plan to bring on the next generation of top British riders, There is everything wrong with that in my opinion. As Speedway fans and clubs we should all be pulling in the same direction to help us bring on our next generation of British stars. So the PL promotions are as guilty and lack luster as the EL ones, that is nothing to be proud of. We get it, you feel the PL is a better product. I most certainly do not. However please feel free to continue to kick everything EL and defend a league that is , in reality, no better. By continually praising the PL and knocking the EL makes you the very thing you claim to not like - League snobbery. Its your call but please don't accuse others of something that you are doing yourself! Sometimes saying as it is to some makes them feel `attacked` - IT ISN'T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I have already stated that both leagues are inappropriately named. The EL has fallen well down the order for priorities for top riders, but at least we still have some of the best in our league- including our World Champion. I cant be much happier than that. As i have stated before i would rather have promising BRITISH kids taking up the EL berths than the likes of the Drymls milking our league in a position they shouldn't be in. Obviously i would like ALL the top guys here, but that isn't going to happen - no matter how we get our league right. However you seem to take great delight in kicking the EL at every opportunity which quite frankly i find a little sad and instead defend a league (inappropriately named) that has no plan to bring on the next generation of top British riders, There is everything wrong with that in my opinion. As Speedway fans and clubs we should all be pulling in the same direction to help us bring on our next generation of British stars. So the PL promotions are as guilty and lack luster as the EL ones, that is nothing to be proud of. We get it, you feel the PL is a better product. I most certainly do not. However please feel free to continue to kick everything EL and defend a league that is , in reality, no better. By continually praising the PL and knocking the EL makes you the very thing you claim to not like - League snobbery. Its your call but please don't accuse others of something that you are doing yourself! Sometimes saying as it is to some makes them feel `attacked` - IT ISN'T. I actually agree with parts of this Post. The highlighted parts. At least I can admit when you have a point steve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Come now, Nobody forces you to partake in any debate, you do so at your own accord. How you can rubbish this important issue is beyond me. Considering some of the rubbish thread on here, that you and others, are more than happy to partake, this issue is paramount to our sport. What a pity, the 3 options wasn't deemed important enough to post them on one of the media networks, so the supporters could air their concerns as well......... Oh yeah, like that would get a real consensus???!!!! Incidentally where have I rubbished this important issue of race format? It'll be just as important at the end of the month as it might be for some today! Edited February 2, 2014 by Skidder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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