TesarRacing Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 The point is people should know they are entitled to know they are the paying customer does MICKY MOUSE strike a cord Steve.? The customer will know when he/she pays unless you are referring to season ticket holders in which case if you are that concerned about the new race format, you wouldn't buy one, would you? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 . If, and I mean a big IF, this new idea was announced now, to begin in 2015 we could have used an interim method this year, without having to change the format, to give the BSPA longer to sort out any problems, so come next year, everybody, that's Riders, Promoters, Supporters and Media would know the format well in advance of the season start Yes, and it would also give us another year of clubs losing big money and fans only getting 14 home meetings in 6 months, and another year of racing some opposing teams twice and some only once. Another year of certain clubs not having enough money to pay their riders, and a high chance that certain clubs wouldn't be coming to the tapes in 2014, one of which may well have been your own club, Kings Lynn , since Buster Chapman was one of those claiming he couldn't afford to run more than 14 home meetings with costs running at the level they were. We have already lost Peterborough, few people doubt that others would have gone if drastic measures were not taken and taken quickly.. Irrespective of whether the new arrangement is a good idea or a bad one the one thing they couldn't do was to hang around for another year before attempting to cut costs in a big way. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yes, and it would also give us another year of clubs losing big money and fans only getting 14 home meetings in 6 months, and another year of racing some opposing teams twice and some only once. Another year of certain clubs not having enough money to pay their riders, and a high chance that certain clubs wouldn't be coming to the tapes in 2014, one of which may well have been your own club, Kings Lynn , since Buster Chapman was one of those claiming he couldn't afford to run more than 14 home meetings with costs running at the level they were. We have already lost Peterborough, few people doubt that others would have gone if drastic measures were not taken and taken quickly.. Irrespective of whether the new arrangement is a good idea or a bad one the one thing they couldn't do was to hang around for another year before attempting to cut costs in a big way. This situation with the costs didn't just appear last year, it has been evident for some time. Why was it not targeted last year, or the year before. probably then, the likes of Peterborough would still be in the Elite league. The way speedway has been run in recent years has been laughable, and yes the situations you mention above should never have been allowed. Probably if these issues were addressed earlier, then some supporters, that have left, would still been there today. Although I enjoy going to Speedway immensely, I have little respect for the collective responsibilities of the BSPA. It appears that instead of forming a united front to promote speedway forward, they all have their own agendas to feather their own nests. The fact, that this year is expected to be fairer and more competitive with racing opponents twice, should have happened years ago. The issue of my original post was the implications of the protected races for the draft riders, and I suggested that probably, in would have been better to wait until such time to allow the problems to be solved. I wasn't saying do nothing for a year, and more clubs fall by the wayside. There are always ways to make our sport better, and that should be the aim of everyone. What my post referred to was, when major, drastic changes are to be implemented, then probably it should be done with a bit more time and thought, instead of jumping in both feet. Just a thought....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) So first of all we've had 'massive implications'!! Now we have 'major, drastic changes' - none of which are proven, just like the end of the world!!!! Edited February 21, 2014 by Skidder1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 So first of all we've had 'massive implications'!! Now we have 'major, drastic changes' - none of which are proven, just like the end of the world!!!! There's none so blind than those who don't want to see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 This situation with the costs didn't just appear last year, it has been evident for some time. Why was it not targeted last year, or the year before. probably then, the likes of Peterborough would still be in the Elite league. The way speedway has been run in recent years has been laughable, and yes the situations you mention above should never have been allowed. Probably if these issues were addressed earlier, then some supporters, that have left, would still been there today. Although I enjoy going to Speedway immensely, I have little respect for the collective responsibilities of the BSPA. It appears that instead of forming a united front to promote speedway forward, they all have their own agendas to feather their own nests. The fact, that this year is expected to be fairer and more competitive with racing opponents twice, should have happened years ago. The issue of my original post was the implications of the protected races for the draft riders, and I suggested that probably, in would have been better to wait until such time to allow the problems to be solved. I wasn't saying do nothing for a year, and more clubs fall by the wayside. There are always ways to make our sport better, and that should be the aim of everyone. What my post referred to was, when major, drastic changes are to be implemented, then probably it should be done with a bit more time and thought, instead of jumping in both feet. Just a thought....... There is a fair bit there that I can agree with you on, particularly in the first two paragraphs, and of course I agree this dire financial situation didn't occur overnight. Unfortunately we can't change the past, we can only hope that lessons have been learned. Hopefully this will prove to be a wake-up call but the sport remains on a knife edge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I Think we are all losing sight of what is important here and that how will able to print our own scorecards without knowing the format . Someone told me to look on line at the updates from the first match and make a copy from that but not sure will work as the BSPA might block the site . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I Think we are all losing sight of what is important here and that how will able to print our own scorecards without knowing the format . Someone told me to look on line at the updates from the first match and make a copy from that but not sure will work as the BSPA might block the site . I buy a programme so i don't care 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wackie Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Maybe the BSPA have now realised that changing the race format will only stop people printing their own racecards for one meeting, so have gone back to the drawing board. Latest rumour from Rugby is that there's to be 3 different race formats. A draw will be made at 30 minutes before tapes up at each meeting to determine which format will be used. That'll scupper the skinflints. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 There is a fair bit there that I can agree with you on, particularly in the first two paragraphs, and of course I agree this dire financial situation didn't occur overnight. Unfortunately we can't change the past, we can only hope that lessons have been learned. Hopefully this will prove to be a wake-up call but the sport remains on a knife edge. Those on here who think I'm scare mongering, obviously cant see the implications this new format will bring. The league matches, we knew last year will be gone and virtually every rule will be changed to accommodate this protective form of racing. One of the biggest issues centres around the riders averages. Once this new format is in place we will have 3 sets of riders. Heat leaders, Second strings and Reserves, all competing on different schedules and operating on different levels. How are we going to compare these riders CMA to each other and how will they be able to move from one group to another group. The issue I'm coming to, is, what's going to happen in 2015?, How will the teams be made up?, what format will we be using then?. Bearing in mind the problems and the headaches this year. Wouldn't it be sensible to OUTLINE the intended schedule for 2015, NOW, so everyone would be on the same direction of going forward, rather than wait and have an even bigger crisis again next year...... Just trying to put some structure into the implementing of new rules and ideas............ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 To answer your question regarding the lowering of Prices - yes I am suggesting that. Remember that you are selling a lesser Product than last year. My reasoning is simple - if folk think that they are getting value for money they will come - if they feel they aren't - they won't. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!! My thoughts on this and other posts you have made on this subject.Belle vue charge 16.50 Rye house charge 16.00. Belle vue M Zagar top 8 G P rider C Cook the prem leagues top rider S Nicholls still a class elite league rider R Worrall a prem league number one M P Toft plymouths number 4 last year + 2 draft riders Rye house E Kennett an elite league 2nd string last yeat M Tresarrieu not good enougth to be picked as a double up rider J Bunyan not good enougth to be picked as a double up rider S Boxhall a nat league rider last year J Garrity an elite league draft pick L Bowen not much better quality than a draft rider S Lambert draft pick quality rider. Now considering the wage bill for the two clubs and the 50p difference in gate prices which club is ripping off its fans and needs to drop it prices to give better value for money for me the answer is SIMPLE what do you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 There's none so blind than those who don't want to see... ...But that's exactly the point, I will wait and see in the first meetings!!! Those on here who think I'm scare mongering, obviously cant see the implications this new format will bring. The league matches, we knew last year will be gone and virtually every rule will be changed to accommodate this protective form of racing. One of the biggest issues centres around the riders averages. Once this new format is in place we will have 3 sets of riders. Heat leaders, Second strings and Reserves, all competing on different schedules and operating on different levels. How are we going to compare these riders CMA to each other and how will they be able to move from one group to another group. The issue I'm coming to, is, what's going to happen in 2015?, How will the teams be made up?, what format will we be using then?. Bearing in mind the problems and the headaches this year. Wouldn't it be sensible to OUTLINE the intended schedule for 2015, NOW, so everyone would be on the same direction of going forward, rather than wait and have an even bigger crisis again next year...... Just trying to put some structure into the implementing of new rules and ideas............ 3 sets of riders???? Reserves will stay as reserves. Heat leaders and 2nd strings will either stay as heat leaders and 2nd strings or they will swap around depending on their scores and the calculation chosen to establish their averages, which will possibly be different to previous seasons if they have a different number of rides per meeting?! Where's the drama, the problems and the headaches this year in all of that??? As far as 2015 is concerned, of course there will be a different way to calculate averages - probably based upon how the 2014 season develops!! Probably much more important for 2015 will be the news coming out of Coventry as to any doubts over the future of the Bees - much much more important than knowing a meeting format pre-season!! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 ...But that's exactly the point, I will wait and see in the first meetings!!! 3 sets of riders???? Reserves will stay as reserves. Heat leaders and 2nd strings will either stay as heat leaders and 2nd strings or they will swap around depending on their scores and the calculation chosen to establish their averages, which will possibly be different to previous seasons if they have a different number of rides per meeting?! Where's the drama, the problems and the headaches this year in all of that??? As far as 2015 is concerned, of course there will be a different way to calculate averages - probably based upon how the 2014 season develops!! Probably much more important for 2015 will be the news coming out of Coventry as to any doubts over the future of the Bees - much much more important than knowing a meeting format pre-season!! Whilst I feel extremely sad to read of the Coventry situation, it doesn't surprise. Instead of the BSPA being a united front, we have always had factions fighting each other and I'm sure, what happened few years ago has some bearing on the decision to sell Brandon. I take it from your posts on this thread, you see nothing wrong in the way speedway is run. You obviously think they are doing a grand job. I wonder how many teams have to fall by the wayside before you except the dire situation speedway is in and unless there are some drastic changes, in Costs, Attendances, VFM , Organisation the sport will be lost forever.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Whilst I feel extremely sad to read of the Coventry situation, it doesn't surprise. Instead of the BSPA being a united front, we have always had factions fighting each other and I'm sure, what happened few years ago has some bearing on the decision to sell Brandon. I take it from your posts on this thread, you see nothing wrong in the way speedway is run. You obviously think they are doing a grand job. I wonder how many teams have to fall by the wayside before you except the dire situation speedway is in and unless there are some drastic changes, in Costs, Attendances, VFM , Organisation the sport will be lost forever.......... Sandu had said from day one that he was looking to develope on the stadium grounds but kept getting rufused. Now he's sold to someone else to have a go. Nothing to do with the BSPA as such. Another thread for that though. Nobody has said the BSPA are wonderful. But on the same token, nobody ever says that the FIM, BSI, FIA, FIFA, UEFA, British Government, EU, their own company CEO, Business Manager or Team Leader's do such wonderful jobs. Everyone thinks they can do better. This doesn't mean though they're not doing their best to improve. Improvement = extra cash flow and at the end of the day this is what drives everthing. You are, at the end of the day, getting caught up in the nonessential issues. The fact is, the BSPA have come together to first and formost SAVE MONEY and at the same time try and put a development program in place. The reality is, they can't put open plans to the public in place for the following year as the BSPA, you, me and the rest will need to see how this progresses & developes. Or not as the case may be. The promoters for once are trying to fix a situation and implimemted a new idea. Lets see how it rolls before you go killing them. Come end of May and the situation is dire, then open the BSPA firing range. Until then, BREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATH buh 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) If the BSPA, FIM, BSI, FIA, FIFA, UEFA, British Government, EU, their own company CEO, Business Manager and Team Leader's worked TOGETHER instead of against each other, then speedway would be in wonderful hands. Edited February 22, 2014 by GRW123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 My thoughts on this and other posts you have made on this subject.Belle vue charge 16.50 Rye house charge 16.00. Belle vue M Zagar top 8 G P rider C Cook the prem leagues top rider S Nicholls still a class elite league rider R Worrall a prem league number one M P Toft plymouths number 4 last year + 2 draft riders Rye house E Kennett an elite league 2nd string last yeat M Tresarrieu not good enougth to be picked as a double up rider J Bunyan not good enougth to be picked as a double up rider S Boxhall a nat league rider last year J Garrity an elite league draft pick L Bowen not much better quality than a draft rider S Lambert draft pick quality rider. Now considering the wage bill for the two clubs and the 50p difference in gate prices which club is ripping off its fans and needs to drop it prices to give better value for money for me the answer is SIMPLE what do you think. If i lived nearer Rye House than Belle Vue it wouldn't matter a jot who was cheaper or who was in what team but would just be down to me watching speedway at my nearest track. They both are to dear in my opinion & the more gaps in the terraces this season will emphasise that as fans are no longer able to pay this much to watch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Don't think so ... Just a very valid opinion that the BSPA has proved regularly over the years that they are rarely capable of introducing a working new rule. Like most things designed by committee, the rules are often open to interpretation and, hence, manipulation. I think it would be sensible to release the formula and associated rules before the season starts - it all needs to be in the rulebook! Also, Sky's commentators/analysts at least will need an idea of what's going on We can hope that if the BSPA is planning to release this info, then the delay is because they are doing lots of wargaming to work out the possibilities, plus the additional rules, and also potential ramifications of those rules (of course, they should be doing that anyway). They should have done ALL of that before announcing to the World that they were changing Systems and Format. Everything should have been worked out from an Operational, Ramification, Systemic and Administrative point of view. ONLY then should anything have been said. THAT is the only logical thing to do from a Business perspective. If i lived nearer Rye House than Belle Vue it wouldn't matter a jot who was cheaper or who was in what team but would just be down to me watching speedway at my nearest track. They both are to dear in my opinion & the more gaps in the terraces this season will emphasise that as fans are no longer able to pay this much to watch it. Precisely. They are both too dear - but at least you have a good idea of the type of Meeting that you are going to see in the Premier League, largely with Riders of similar abilities. You simply can't say that about the Elite League. The QUALITY of at least one third of the Elite League Races in a Meeting will simply NOT be up to an Elite League standard. My contention is that if the quality of Product has dropped that much - then so should the Price. This is my opinion - I accept it isn't everyone's - however, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Edited February 22, 2014 by The White Knight 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) I did afterwards, not that you answered it of course. There should be around £5-£6 difference between EL and PL. Either the PL prices are too high, or the EL is too low. There should be around £5-£6 difference between EL and PL. Either the PL prices are too high, or the EL is too low. Are you in reality or are you in your own little world? my experience having watched PL racing live have you?? I would say a couple of quid tops apart from the GP riders now with NL reserves and more and likely having to change the race format god the level has dropped off bigtime and next year what happens with the averages.? Edited February 22, 2014 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 They should have done ALL of that before announcing to the World that they were changing Systems and Format. Everything should have been worked out from an Operational, Ramification, Systemic and Administrative point of view. ONLY then should anything have been said. THAT is the only logical thing to do from a Business perspective. Precisely. They are both too dear - but at least you have a good idea of the type of Meeting that you are going to see in the Premier League, largely with Riders of similar abilities. You simply can't say that about the Elite League. The QUALITY of at least one third of the Elite League Races in a Meeting will simply NOT be up to an Elite League standard. My contention is that if the quality of Product has dropped that much - then so should the Price. This is my opinion - I accept it isn't everyone's - however, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Couldn't agree more & I know a lot of fans who have not renewed season tickets at various Elite League clubs. Guess we'll have to see how many more gaps are on the terraces in 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Are you in reality or are you in your own little world? my experience having watched PL racing live have you?? I would say a couple of quid tops apart from the GP riders now with NL reserves and more and likely having to change the race format god the level has dropped off bigtime and next year what happens with the averages.?No one is saying that the pl isnt as entertsining as the el.Just as you can watch a lower leahue football game and it provide more end to end excitement than a premiership match. However, prices are tied to the quality of the sports people, and the wages they earn relative to those at lower levels. On this basis, the pl speedway should be around 40% of yhe price of the el (basically the conversion rate for averages). So if el charges 15 quid, 9 or 10 quid would be about right for pl. Of course neither vleague could afford to charge ten quid, unless they can increase the quality of overall entertainment package to attract at least a 50% increase in paying customers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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