Hodgy Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 What rules do you need to know to enjoy speedway???? Here's mine:- There's 7 spaces in every team There's 2 teams in a league meeting 2 of each teams spaces are required for 15 heats Those 4 spaces are required to come to tapes within the 2 min warning Home 2 spaces are red and blue heads Away 2 spaces are white and yellow heads Start marshall sticks his arm out to say he's happy Green light on Tapes go up The 4 spaces try to win over the start finish line on the last of 4 oval laps without hitting the bouncy castles on the outside 1st gets 3 pts, 2nd gets 2pts, 3rd gets 1pt and 4th gets 0 and s#!t load of abuse The home fans jump for joy when the home team wins If anything else goes on in the meeting just abuse the referee That's speedway chaps, enjoy That's the basics of Speedway but due to the drastic changes made it is not as simple as that. If it was the rule book wouldn't be so over complicated, that's before they now need to add several more pages as a result of the new structure. You haven't read my post at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 No the PL has been better value i believe in my opinion ,everyone to there own i suppose, have you seen a live PL meeting in the last three years? Your opinion, not shared in an EL section i would imagine. and YES i have watched EL, PL, NL, Amateur and had a go myself. The argument is never a valid one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 That's the basics of Speedway but due to the drastic changes made it is not as simple as that. If it was the rule book wouldn't be so over complicated, that's before they now need to add several more pages as a result of the new structure. You haven't read my post at all. You didn't answer the question and everybody in fact. What rules do you need to know to enjoy speedway? It's not a hard question and I gave a very reasonable answer myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Are you saying that if you don't like the new format, you wont be attending any meetings ? Just asking.. No, I'm saying what I said. I would like to know the rules surrounding the format before committing, examples as stated - but you knew that already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 No, I'm saying what I said. I would like to know the rules surrounding the format before committing, examples as stated - but you knew that already. The rules haven't been forthcoming for several seasons now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) You didn't answer the question and everybody in fact. What rules do you need to know to enjoy speedway? It's not a hard question and I gave a very reasonable answer myself I didn't need to. The answer is in my post you replied to - like some others you are not getting it. But hey that's ok, if your happy with it all good luck to you. Edited February 20, 2014 by Hodgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I didn't need to. The answer is in my post you replied to - like some others you are not getting it. But hey that's ok, if your happy with it all good luck to you.What, the below quote? Jeezzzz!!! Will some of you try and understand the concerns. It's not the actual race format, it's the rules surrounding it. It's what happens when the format cannot be followed that need to be clarified and communicated - long before the programme theives move in. I have no desire to watch numerous 3 rider races, top boys v ball boys, false averages and rules that are totally open to manipulation. Until these points are clear why would anyone commit? Mork calling Orson!!! If it is this then the mentioned queries have been in speedway for 50+ years so yes, I'm not getting what rules you need to know as these thing obviously haven't bothered you much before. All of those will always be factors in speedway, they're not gonna go away regardless of any rules and formats. As I say, just enjoy what we all do know. SPEEDWAY Edited February 20, 2014 by screamer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Apologies if this has already been discussed but when the new race format is known then I assume this will only be used in the Elite League. As a different format will be used by the Premier and National Leagues, won't this mean that the rider average conversion factors between the leagues will need to change too? I can see this being tricky to calculate. Jo Jacobs could have a high average for Mildenhall, his next highest league average could be for Wolves and his lowest average forKings Lynn - so his individual conversion factor from Premier to Elite would then be negative. Clearly I need to get out more................Nurse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 oh no My thoughts exactly :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Wow, i need to get up really early to catch you out. EVERYONE will know the format after the season starts which is my whole point. Just a clue, as i know you need plenty. We are talking about PRE season (that is before the season starts just for you). No news of a format yet. Lets face it - it could be something simple as not wanting to inform the paying public (really? the BSPA not inform the public?? i mean really?? ) OR something more complex like an issue with the format. With it being SOO close to the season start my money is on the former. Either way ................ it could be either. But i guess you wouldn't think (yes Orion THINK) that would you. What are talking about ? you said that the reason format was not coming out was to stop people making race cards up .so explain to everyone what is there to stop people looking at the updates on the very first match and then making a copy ? . Or are you saying that it will only stop people pre season from printing race cards ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 What are talking about ? you said that the reason format was not coming out was to stop people making race cards up .so explain to everyone what is there to stop people looking at the updates on the very first match and then making a copy ? . Or are you saying that it will only stop people pre season from printing race cards ? I think its clear what i`m saying, but you got there eventually. Well done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlipphlopp Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I think its clear what i`m saying, but you got there eventually. Well done. What you say is never clear. Never has been due to the fact its been a load of bull. And no doubt , learning from past experience , you will be wrong about everything again. You've been caught out too many times. Dont just ask me , its common knowledge. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 What, the below quote? If it is this then the mentioned queries have been in speedway for 50+ years so yes, I'm not getting what rules you need to know as these thing obviously haven't bothered you much before. All of those will always be factors in speedway, they're not gonna go away regardless of any rules and formats. As I say, just enjoy what we all do know. SPEEDWAY No, I don't ever recall declaring novices must fill the reserve berths in the top tier before now. In previous years should a reserve surpass their starting average they would move into the main body of a team with a lesser performer swapping places. That cannot happen in this structure. We have never had a situation where the heat leaders cannot race against the opposition reserves. Unfortunately injuries will happen in this sport and more likely to occur with lesser experienced riders. We now have a situation where a top rider can only ride against 5 of the opposition, as opposed to 7, for a reserve that number is 4 opposing riders - that's a major change from your simplicity. So how do we substitute the reserves? Likewise if a member of the top 5 is ruled out how do we cover their absence? The past 50 years would have been a reserve takes their remaining rides. If certain riders must not meet each other the options are very limited. Some of the assumed solutions are very open to tactical manipulation - a subject that has previously created pages of angry debate. Averages (albeit the catalyst for past misdemeanours) will be false as they will not be based on equality. Guests / RR as a result of fixture clashes, injuries, doubling, trebling or continental commitments will be in abundance - much more than previous seasons that have disappointed punters immensely. In my opinion they have really screwed up with this change. You now have a combined EL and NL but if you are fine with that, good on ya. I'll stick to the PL where they all meet each other and a max is a max. Enjoy... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 No, I don't ever recall declaring novices must fill the reserve berths in the top tier before now. I believe there was a period in the 80's when the reserves were filled with unexperienced 2nd half riders so that not true In previous years should a reserve surpass their starting average they would move into the main body of a team with a lesser performer swapping places. That cannot happen in this structure. In the brilliant Premier League the reserves spent the whole season at reserve not many years ago until promoters complained that Woffy was to good We have never had a situation where the heat leaders cannot race against the opposition reserves. That should be seen as a positive should it, less strung out heats Unfortunately injuries will happen in this sport and more likely to occur with lesser experienced riders. Nothing has changed over the years of speedway. The majority of the time the reserves have always been the last experience, crash loads from over trying and trundle round at the back. Now they're not going to have to do that against the better rider's as much. Again, a positive We now have a situation where a top rider can only ride against 5 of the opposition, as opposed to 7, for a reserve that number is 4 opposing riders - that's a major change from your simplicity. Again, a positive as it should prove to produce more competitive racing So how do we substitute the reserves? During a meeting it's your other reserve or a blank space in the heat so no change. Before a meeting it has to be another member from the Draft List Likewise if a member of the top 5 is ruled out how do we cover their absence? The past 50 years would have been a reserve takes their remaining rides. If certain riders must not meet each other the options are very limited. Most are saying this remains the same, but I believe it will be other rider's from the top 5 which again will make for more competitive racing Some of the assumed solutions are very open to tactical manipulation - a subject that has previously created pages of angry debate. Averages (albeit the catalyst for past misdemeanours) will be false as they will not be based on equality. Guests / RR as a result of fixture clashes, injuries, doubling, trebling or continental commitments will be in abundance - much more than previous seasons that have disappointed punters immensely. This is the fault of British Speedway as a whole with the greed of needing to operate every day in the week. As I've mentioned on a previous thread, the UK Elite should be Monday - Thursday, Swedish Elite Tuesday, Danish Elite Wednesday, Polish Elite Sunday leaving GP, SEC, practice sessions and qualifiers to Friday and Saturday but we wouldn't have that so we'll have to live with it. In my opinion they have really screwed up with this change. You now have a combined EL and NL but if you are fine with that, good on ya. I'll stick to the PL where they all meet each other and a max is a max. Enjoy... And there lies another positive, we get to make a choice on what we want to watch and yes, I'm very positive on the new changes. You enjoy the PL and have a nice 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossi Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 The rules haven't been forthcoming for several seasons now. Yes they have . They are always , every year, on the SCB website under the 'Regulations' tab 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 No, I don't ever recall declaring novices must fill the reserve berths in the top tier before now. In previous years should a reserve surpass their starting average they would move into the main body of a team with a lesser performer swapping places. That cannot happen in this structure. We have never had a situation where the heat leaders cannot race against the opposition reserves. Unfortunately injuries will happen in this sport and more likely to occur with lesser experienced riders. We now have a situation where a top rider can only ride against 5 of the opposition, as opposed to 7, for a reserve that number is 4 opposing riders - that's a major change from your simplicity. So how do we substitute the reserves? Likewise if a member of the top 5 is ruled out how do we cover their absence? The past 50 years would have been a reserve takes their remaining rides. If certain riders must not meet each other the options are very limited. Some of the assumed solutions are very open to tactical manipulation - a subject that has previously created pages of angry debate. Averages (albeit the catalyst for past misdemeanours) will be false as they will not be based on equality. Guests / RR as a result of fixture clashes, injuries, doubling, trebling or continental commitments will be in abundance - much more than previous seasons that have disappointed punters immensely. In my opinion they have really screwed up with this change. You now have a combined EL and NL but if you are fine with that, good on ya. I'll stick to the PL where they all meet each other and a max is a max. Enjoy... With respect mate, you are losing sight of the fact that the object of the exercise is to save money. All of us would like to bona fide reserves riding in the top league, but the reality is, for about the hundredth time, if the sport carried on as it did last year certain clubs would be closing their doors. So, now the decision has been taken to include NL riders at reserve we are not going to get an ideal set-up and there are going to be things about it that we don't like, but its either that or a decimated top league. The other side of the coin, and the positive aspect which people are forgetting is that we are now going to have more league matches, and we have got rid of the utterly ridiculous arrangement where teams met some opponents twice in a season and others once. To my mind that was one of the daftest ideas ever to hit speedway, and qualification for the play-offs could never be said to be a level playing field while that arrangement existed. So what does the paying punter know he can look forward to ? Well, we have sides with certain drawbacks arising from NL reserves but we don't yet know all the details so it could work out better than some think or it could be worse. We simply don't know and even if the heat format is published in advance we still won't really be able to make a valued judgment until a few weeks into the season ( apart from those who are determined to find fault whatever) but what we do know is that there will be more meetings and although there will still be some weeks without meetings it won't be anything like as bad as last year where at time we had weeks on end with no racing. In addition we know all teams will meet each other twice which is what many fans have been calling for. So on balance I would say we are likely to see an improvement over last year. If you are happy with PL racing then good for you, but as a primarily EL supporter I am pleased to be looking forward to getting back to a full season of racing with a 10 team league. There may be downsides we have to swallow but better that than the gaps in the fixture list we had last year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I believe there was a period in the 80's when the reserves were filled with unexperienced 2nd half riders so that not true In the brilliant Premier League the reserves spent the whole season at reserve not many years ago until promoters complained that Woffy was to good That should be seen as a positive should it, less strung out heats Nothing has changed over the years of speedway. The majority of the time the reserves have always been the last experience, crash loads from over trying and trundle round at the back. Now they're not going to have to do that against the better rider's as much. Again, a positive Again, a positive as it should prove to produce more competitive racing During a meeting it's your other reserve or a blank space in the heat so no change. Before a meeting it has to be another member from the Draft List Most are saying this remains the same, but I believe it will be other rider's from the top 5 which again will make for more competitive racing This is the fault of British Speedway as a whole with the greed of needing to operate every day in the week. As I've mentioned on a previous thread, the UK Elite should be Monday - Thursday, Swedish Elite Tuesday, Danish Elite Wednesday, Polish Elite Sunday leaving GP, SEC, practice sessions and qualifiers to Friday and Saturday but we wouldn't have that so we'll have to live with it. And there lies another positive, we get to make a choice on what we want to watch and yes, I'm very positive on the new changes. You enjoy the PL and have a nice 2014 Thanks for response. I guessed I might be wasting my time - we will just agree to disagree and watch this space. With respect mate, you are losing sight of the fact that the object of the exercise is to save money. All of us would like to bona fide reserves riding in the top league, but the reality is, for about the hundredth time, if the sport carried on as it did last year certain clubs would be closing their doors. So, now the decision has been taken to include NL riders at reserve we are not going to get an ideal set-up and there are going to be things about it that we don't like, but its either that or a decimated top league. The other side of the coin, and the positive aspect which people are forgetting is that we are now going to have more league matches, and we have got rid of the utterly ridiculous arrangement where teams met some opponents twice in a season and others once. To my mind that was one of the daftest ideas ever to hit speedway, and qualification for the play-offs could never be said to be a level playing field while that arrangement existed. So what does the paying punter know he can look forward to ? Well, we have sides with certain drawbacks arising from NL reserves but we don't yet know all the details so it could work out better than some think or it could be worse. We simply don't know and even if the heat format is published in advance we still won't really be able to make a valued judgment until a few weeks into the season ( apart from those who are determined to find fault whatever) but what we do know is that there will be more meetings and although there will still be some weeks without meetings it won't be anything like as bad as last year where at time we had weeks on end with no racing. In addition we know all teams will meet each other twice which is what many fans have been calling for. So on balance I would say we are likely to see an improvement over last year. If you are happy with PL racing then good for you, but as a primarily EL supporter I am pleased to be looking forward to getting back to a full season of racing with a 10 team league. There may be downsides we have to swallow but better that than the gaps in the fixture list we had last year. With respect, I am not losing sight of anything. All we would like to know are the rules surrounding the format (for the umpteenth time). If you and a few others aren't bothered, good on ya, that's your prerogative. With such a history of poor management and rash unthought through decisions I would like to know what I am buying in to. Some riders are now concerned with a potential loss of earnings. The fact that we are so close to the season with still far too many assumptions leads me to believe they are struggling with it. Otherwise it would have been communicated weeks ago. Oh no sorry, I've just remembered its because so many will make their own race cards if the format is released too soon. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) All the bickering on this thread is of no consequence, the facts remains we all want the same thing, i.e. exciting racing. The problems highlighted on here could all be avoided if the BSPA got their house in order and had some form of structured approach to new rules. Yeah I know times are hard and clubs are feeling the strain, but this hasn't happens over night, and the finances should have been addressed in a program of events. I'm of the impression this is a jolt reaction in an attempt to save some promotion money, and using a protected race format for the draft riders has created many unseen headaches. If New rules were announced 12 months in advance of activation, it would give everybody the foresight to iron out any unseen problems, way before they come into force. In situations like we have now, the time is running out fast and we still wait on the format. If, and I mean a big IF, this new idea was announced now, to begin in 2015 we could have used an interim method this year, without having to change the format, to give the BSPA longer to sort out any problems, so come next year, everybody, that's Riders, Promoters, Supporters and Media would know the format well in advance of the season start. Situation like this would then be a thing of the past. Edited February 21, 2014 by GRW123 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brummie Boy Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 If New rules were announced 12 months in advance of activation, it would give everybody the foresight to iron out any unseen problems, way before they come into force. In situations like we have now, the time is running out fast and we still wait on the format. I, and I mean a big IF, this new idea was announced now, to begin in 2015 we could have used an interim method this year to give the BSPA longer to sort out any problems, so come next year, everybody, that's riders, Promoters, supporters and media would know the format well in advance of the season start. Situation like this would then be a thing of the past. GRW this has all been suggested umpteen times before and the BSPA has never learnt anything by it mistakes. Unfortunately, the BSPA seem to subscribe to the belief they can just carry on making the rules up as they go a long and forward planning is not a concept they are familiar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 What you say is never clear. Never has been due to the fact its been a load of bull. And no doubt , learning from past experience , you will be wrong about everything again. You've been caught out too many times. Dont just ask me , its common knowledge. Crystal clear. Shame that you seem to insult anyone for getting things wrong, which is a lot of people. You must take great pride in the amount of people that wrote of Wolves chances last season. I had forgotten your insults but i am glad i am not to be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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