TesarRacing Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Anyway look, less of the side-tracking, I need to know desperately "When will the New Race Format be out" well before the start of the season as it looks like the "Sky Sports New Deal" posters are bored now and piling into this thread!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Back on thread, did anyone ever find where it was stated that the reserve riders would ONLY race against second strings? There's an interview with Jon Cook I read where I am sure he stated that it would benefit the NL riders more to be chasing riders like Darcy Ward than lesser riders... Can you identify the interview ? As far as I am aware he has made no public comments specifically stating whether reserves would have protected heats, although all the powers that be seem to imply that will be the case without actually saying so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Can you identify the interview ? As far as I am aware he has made no public comments specifically stating whether reserves would have protected heats, although all the powers that be seem to imply that will be the case without actually saying so. I'll try and find it, it was in an old speedway star, I'm about 2 months behind on reading them online! Just to clarify while I am looking for it, Cook didn't mention protected heats at all in what I saw, his comment was along the lines of its more beneficial to be chasing a rider like Ward than a rider of their own level. Ok found it.. to be honest, it doesn't really cast any light on the situation at all.. It says "To be rubbing shoulders with the likes of Tai Woffinden and Darcy Ward will give these riders inspiration. It's a great thing and those riders will learn so much more chasing a better rider than they will chasing someone who is not of that ilk" Now when I read it the first time, the 'of that ilk' appeared to refer to Woffinden/Ward. It is a little open to conjecture I suppose. It's in the Nov 23rd edition on page 3.. "Fast tracking Future" article. Edited February 5, 2014 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Just to clarify while I am looking for it, Cook didn't mention protected heats at all in what I saw, his comment was along the lines of its more beneficial to be chasing a rider like Ward than a rider of their own level. That is my recollection too. It was Philip Rising, in the BSF thread on the AGM, who said the word 'protected' as he had 'heard' it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchesterpaul Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) It says "To be rubbing shoulders with the likes of Tai Woffinden and Darcy Ward will give these riders inspiration. It's a great thing and those riders will learn so much more chasing a better rider than they will chasing someone who is not of that ilk" 'Rubbing shoulders' aren't they more likely to be trailing a distant third* in front of a yawning bored crowd? * Or second if the reference isn't meaning two in the same race. Edited February 5, 2014 by manchesterpaul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Jon Cook Speedway Star November 23rd and I quote " These riders will be having their rides against their fellow reserves on two occasions and be taking their other rides AGAINST SECOND STRINGS "(capitals are mine ) Edited February 5, 2014 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Jon Cook Speedway Star November 23rd and I quote " These riders will be having their rides against their fellow reserves on two occasions and be taking their other rides AGAINST SECOND STRINGS "(capitals are mine ) Aha, Excellent, good work. That seems to make it quite clear, although Cook is somewhat confused as in the same magazine he has stated.... "Those riders need to be protected and we need to put riders of the same ilk against riders of the same ilk" and "It's a great thing and those riders will learn so much more chasing a better rider than they will chasing someone who is not of that ilk" Needs to sort his ilk's out I think as he is getting a tad confused. Edited February 5, 2014 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Needs to sort his ilk's out I think as he is getting a tad confused. Cook's probably the poor old, er, chap who's having to write the new formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john birch Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Reserves race reserves twice the second time possibly being ht.11 (which may also be the last race in which someone can go on a tac. ride). And also race second strings. Presumably second strings will race all comers and heat leaders race a mixture of their peers and second strings. However their is still a final choice from three formulas to be made, apparently. Couple of concerns: Second strings could end up with higher averages than heat leaders and could in theory be replaced as the playoffs draw near by heat leaders currently without a place. How are averages to be carried into next year worked out? If a tac. ride is allowed in the second reserves race that could potentially benefit the likes of Coventry, Kings Lynn and Lakeside (who have the best pairings) further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Reserves race reserves twice the second time possibly being ht.11 (which may also be the last race in which someone can go on a tac. ride). And also race second strings. Presumably second strings will race all comers and heat leaders race a mixture of their peers and second strings. However their is still a final choice from three formulas to be made, apparently. Couple of concerns: Second strings could end up with higher averages than heat leaders and could in theory be replaced as the playoffs draw near by heat leaders currently without a place. How are averages to be carried into next year worked out? If a tac. ride is allowed in the second reserves race that could potentially benefit the likes of Coventry, Kings Lynn and Lakeside (who have the best pairings) further. No way will tac subs be allowed in a reserve race-ie 6 & 7 v 6 & 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 No way will tac subs be allowed in a reserve race-ie 6 & 7 v 6 & 7Not tac subs, but tac rides I.e double points, is I believe what was meant. Would make more sense to allow this in these heats than in the heats where secind strings meet reserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Not tac subs, but tac rides I.e double points, is I believe what was meant. Would make more sense to allow this in these heats than in the heats where secind strings meet reserves. I don't think so. What are you trying to do - give the opposition extra points. Oh!! wait a minute.................................................................................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Reserves race reserves twice the second time possibly being ht.11 (which may also be the last race in which someone can go on a tac. ride). And also race second strings. Presumably second strings will race all comers and heat leaders race a mixture of their peers and second strings. However their is still a final choice from three formulas to be made, apparently. Couple of concerns: Second strings could end up with higher averages than heat leaders and could in theory be replaced as the playoffs draw near by heat leaders currently without a place. How are averages to be carried into next year worked out? If a tac. ride is allowed in the second reserves race that could potentially benefit the likes of Coventry, Kings Lynn and Lakeside (who have the best pairings) further. When it was announced, back in Nov 2013, that these new draft reserves were to have protected races, reservations were posted of all the issues that you have mentioned above. Am I right in thinking, that 3 months down the line, We are still no nearer the solution.????? Once the heat format gets altered to protect these riders, the existing CMA becomes, only a guide of riders ability dated to Oct 2014. Any comparisons made between the two, after that, is purely fictitious. I wouldn't worry too much about next year, The BPSA usually bring in new rules each year, that will in evidently throw a spanner in the works of everything that had happened before, deeming it useless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krompa Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 What a crap idea to protect reserves from meeting heat leaders. They are well protected in National League. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 The idea is protect the public from watching strung out races. No good for anyone. However, the issue of second strings and hugely inflated averages is an issue, with some gaining an average much higher than they are usually capable off in the EL. Perhaps second strings should have their averages protected in some way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krompa Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 You guys overe there worry too much about avarages and level playing field etc. In Poland we simply put U21 riders in and it is working fine (I know they only have 3 programmed rides each). You can always increas points limit to protect second strings (on false avarages). Seems that British speedway is all about one word 'protect'. Protect BSI (from SEC), protect second strings, protect juniors... In my opinion 2 places in EL teams for young Brits was the best decision made in last 10 years. Now it is time to open eyes wider, cut schedule and use some kind of squad system to attract top guys back. IMO thats the only way to progress for British speedway (or to PROTECT it). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) You guys overe there worry too much about avarages and level playing field etc. In Poland we simply put U21 riders in and it is working fine (I know they only have 3 programmed rides each). You can always increas points limit to protect second strings (on false avarages). Seems that British speedway is all about one word 'protect'. Protect BSI (from SEC), protect second strings, protect juniors... In my opinion 2 places in EL teams for young Brits was the best decision made in last 10 years. Now it is time to open eyes wider, cut schedule and use some kind of squad system to attract top guys back. IMO thats the only way to progress for British speedway (or to PROTECT it). Polish speedway gets huge crowds and is awash with money, some of it 'clean'. In Britain we have to protect what's left before it is finally destroyed by the FIM and Polish greed. As for the young riders we do not have a proper training programme for youngsters so our junior talent is way behind yours. Also we don't have the money to invest in young talent like Polish clubs have. The 'protection' you decry is in fact segregation to make sure we don't have endless races with two riders almost a lap in front of the other two. It isn't a healthy situation and the state of British speedway is at a hopelessly low ebb. The last thing we need is someone attacking from outside who is fortunate enough to live in a country where speedway is much more prosperous. Mind you, it's about the only reason I'm envious of anyone based over there. Edited February 6, 2014 by rmc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Protect BSI (from SEC) Who in Britain wishes to protect BSI? The SGP was the final nail in the coffin for the British leagues, and whilst some sing its praises, I don't see anyone actually 'protecting' BSI. Whilst the cosy status quo at the top level was long overdue for a challenge, I wouldn't count on Onesport and its propagandists to be much of an improvement. Seem like just another bunch of dodgy promoters (of which speedway has plenty) who ignore the rules when it suits them. Edited February 6, 2014 by Humphrey Appleby 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krompa Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 What is the best way to make people visit stadiums and sponsors to pump money into sport? Give them good product. How can you achive that? Bring stars back and let your own young stars grow. By letting young Brits in, there was step 2 done. And now people are crying that there will be too many races with top 2 way in front. Come on, gimme a break. Reserves only have 4 rides each with one reserves heat with all 4 of them in it. It will not affect quality of other races that much and young riders will finally have perfect opportunity to race top blokes (the only way to progress!). As much as I love British speedway (probably more than Polish), I have to say that it is funny how you guys make life harder. Instead of being happy with new rule that brought young local prospects into top league, now you cry that middle order riders avarages will be false (like it was really problem). That seems like a joke when I read opinions like that. Better take a look what top riders say. Most of them would be happy to have 15-20 meetings a year in UK but Elite League schedule is longer again (36 matches + playoffs)! Why no two number 1's per team allowed to get some big names back in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 What is the best way to make people visit stadiums and sponsors to pump money into sport? Give them good product. How can you achive that? Bring stars back and let your own young stars grow. By letting young Brits in, there was step 2 done. And now people are crying that there will be too many races with top 2 way in front. Come on, gimme a break. Reserves only have 4 rides each with one reserves heat with all 4 of them in it. It will not affect quality of other races that much and young riders will finally have perfect opportunity to race top blokes (the only way to progress!). As much as I love British speedway (probably more than Polish), I have to say that it is funny how you guys make life harder. Instead of being happy with new rule that brought young local prospects into top league, now you cry that middle order riders avarages will be false (like it was really problem). That seems like a joke when I read opinions like that. Better take a look what top riders say. Most of them would be happy to have 15-20 meetings a year in UK but Elite League schedule is longer again (36 matches + playoffs)! Why no two number 1's per team allowed to get some big names back in? COSTS perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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