stevebrum Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 What I wan't to know is this - if second strings race generally themselves and the reserves and don't meet heat leaders in some races- what happens if someone increases his average from say 5.00 to 7.50? Can they then be replaces by a rider of heat leader standard eg Larsen or Sundstrom? Good point. To stop this being abused the riders should only be replaced on a like for like basis. Riders on averages as the starting second strings , as an eg, that increase to say 7 or 8 cannot be replaced with a `heat leader` standard rider. Starting heat leaders , as another eg, can be replaced by another heat leader standard rider of a similar average. Just an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 For team re declarations, the 2013 final rolling averages should be used. avoids all the issues caused by new heat formats and league strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 What I wan't to know is this - if second strings race generally themselves and the reserves and don't meet heat leaders in some races- what happens if someone increases his average from say 5.00 to 7.50? Can they then be replaces by a rider of heat leader standard eg Larsen or Sundstrom? Don't understand any issue with that?! It would be the same for all teams!! All averages and/or points limits for team building are going to have to be changed again for 2015 anyway!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Don't understand any issue with that?! It would be the same for all teams!! All averages and/or points limits for team building are going to have to be changed again for 2015 anyway!! It wont be the same for all teams though. Those with riders on an assessed average (e.g. milik) will see a much more marked spike in averages than those with riders on a rolling average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 It wont be the same for all teams though. Those with riders on an assessed average (e.g. milik) will see a much more marked spike in averages than those with riders on a rolling average. What I meant was that all teams had exactly the same chance to sign whoever they want within the points limit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) What I meant was that all teams had exactly the same chance to sign whoever they want within the points limit!! Ok , I take your point, that each club had the opportunity to get these so called riders, but the difference comes, that some clubs can't afford to buy some of these riders, So we get back to cheque book ethics again. The assessed system that is employed create more issues then any other problem. Some people look at acquiring a rider with a low fictitious score as paramount to winning the league. I've even heard of managers and supporters bragging about their successes. The truth being, this should be looked upon as detriment to the equality of teams and the comparison that are needed to make the sport attractive. Rider with assessed scores should be properly governed. This is not a dig at Milik or Poole , it is a problem that pops up regularly. We need to make more stringent rules to protect all the clubs of thus situations. Edited January 23, 2014 by GRW123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500cc Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I suggest the first match of the season is run on Sky. The marketing opportunities are immense. As the riders leave the pits for each heat, you get your first glimpse of the new Heat format. And just think of the debates we could have. Was rider X programmed for that Heat or is he a replacement under regulation 17.99.3.5.2c. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Don't understand any issue with that?! It would be the same for all teams!! All averages and/or points limits for team building are going to have to be changed again for 2015 anyway!! That's the standard Poole way of working isn't it? A second string ups their average and is replaced by a recognised heat leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbee Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Ok , I take your point, that each club had the opportunity to get these so called riders, but the difference comes, that some clubs can't afford to buy some of these riders, So we get back to cheque book ethics again. The assessed system that is employed create more issues then any other problem. Some people look at acquiring a rider with a low fictitious score as paramount to winning the league. I've even heard of managers and supporters bragging about their successes. The truth being, this should be looked upon as detriment to the equality of teams and the comparison that are needed to make the sport attractive. Rider with assessed scores should be properly governed. This is not a dig at Milik or Poole , it is a problem that pops up regularly. We need to make more stringent rules to protect all the clubs of thus situations. I would like to see a ruling to the effect that for team building purposes a rider like Milik with an average of 4.00 could only be replaced later in the season with a 4.00 average rider or below this would stop any fiddling averages later in the season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 That's the standard Poole way of working isn't it? A second string ups their average and is replaced by a recognised heat leader If a second string upped there average to that extent - why would you look to replace him?? Unless he gets injured of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 If a second string upped there average to that extent - why would you look to replace him?? Unless he gets injured of course. As in Miedzinski. Doubt that Janowski would achieve over an 8 but KK could replace him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 As in Miedzinski. Doubt that Janowski would achieve over an 8 but KK could replace him. More likely Pawlicki to average over 8, Miedzinski had to stop riding here, Poole had no choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointsmeanplayoffs Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Predicting team changes already? Before the heat format and rider positioning have been confirmed? You guys are good! Any chance one of you could point me in the direction of 6 lucky numbers for Saturday night's lottery!?!? It is good fun though... DEPENDING on the heat format, it could mean second strings racing against reserves and could result in a scenario for Lynn where...... .....Whilst Rory maintains his 7 average, Porsing up's his average to over 5 by beating EL reserves with ease. Then, heading into the play-offs, and with with his other league commitments simmering down we could bring in Nicki P and a 4 pointer as replacements to form arguably the most power packed top 3 the EL has ever seen in : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I would like to see a ruling to the effect that for team building purposes a rider like Milik with an average of 4.00 could only be replaced later in the season with a 4.00 average rider or below this would stop any fiddling averages later in the season I have voiced this idea before, but was cried down. When the season starts, there's an equality points limit in place to ensure all the teams are competitive. So why should the equality stop when the season starts. If those averages at the commencement of the season were use when replacement were needed, then all the team would always remain equal. This would stop future issues when teams having riders with wholly unrealistic averages, upping their scores and being replaced when a far greater quality rider that would have been impossible at the outset.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 More likely Pawlicki to average over 8, Miedzinski had to stop riding here, Poole had no choice. Well know about the Miedzinski farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 Predicting team changes already? Before the heat format and rider positioning have been confirmed? You guys are good! Any chance one of you could point me in the direction of 6 lucky numbers for Saturday night's lottery!?!? It is good fun though... DEPENDING on the heat format, it could mean second strings racing against reserves and could result in a scenario for Lynn where...... .....Whilst Rory maintains his 7 average, Porsing up's his average to over 5 by beating EL reserves with ease. Then, heading into the play-offs, and with with his other league commitments simmering down we could bring in Nicki P and a 4 pointer as replacements to form arguably the most power packed top 3 the EL has ever seen in : ) A team can NOT replace 7 and 5 point riders for a 9 and a 3 rider unless they are still under the points limit. If they are over the 32 limit then they must replace riders like for like ..... ie another7 and another 5 point rider. PS; 1, 2, 4, 21, 45, 49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Postie Thompson Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 The example I have used is for a Kings Lynn vs Coventry meeting, line ups are in average order Hope you can understand the format, please feel free to give me your opinions on this 1. Niels K Iversen. 1. Hans Andersen. 2. Kenneth Bjerre. 2. Chris Harris. 3. Rory Schlien. 3. Kenneth Hansen. 4. Nicklas Posing. 4. Ryan Fisher. 5. Robert Lambert. 5. Kyle Howarth. 6. Lewis Kerr 6. Jason Garrity 7. Lewis Rose 7. James Sarjeant Heat 1 NKI Bjerre Andersen Harris Heat 2 Schlien Porsing Hansen Fisher Heat 3 Kerr Rose Garrity Sarjeant Heat 4 Lambert NKI Howarth Andersen Heat 5 Bjerre Schlien Harris Hansen Heat 6 Porsing Lambert Fisher Howarth Heat 7 Kerr Rose Garrity Sarjaent Heat 8 NKI Schlien Andersen Hansen Heat 9 Bjerre Porsing Harris Fisher Heat 10 Lambert Kerr Howarth Garrity Heat 11 NKI Porsing Andersen Fisher Heat 12 Lambert Rose Howarth Sarjaent Heat 13 Bjerre Schlien Harris Hansen Heat 14 Kerr Rose Garrity Sarjaent Heat 15 Nominated Race 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham C Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 The example I have used is for a Kings Lynn vs Coventry meeting, line ups are in average order Hope you can understand the format, please feel free to give me your opinions on this 1. Niels K Iversen. 1. Hans Andersen. 2. Kenneth Bjerre. 2. Chris Harris. 3. Rory Schlien. 3. Kenneth Hansen. 4. Nicklas Posing. 4. Ryan Fisher. 5. Robert Lambert. 5. Kyle Howarth. 6. Lewis Kerr 6. Jason Garrity 7. Lewis Rose 7. James Sarjeant According to Graham Drury (November 2013?) your three heatleaders have to be at No's 1,3 and 5, although not neccesarily in average order, similarly your second strings can be at number 2 or 4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 The example I have used is for a Kings Lynn vs Coventry meeting, line ups are in average order Hope you can understand the format, please feel free to give me your opinions on this 1. Niels K Iversen. 1. Hans Andersen. 2. Kenneth Bjerre. 2. Chris Harris. 3. Rory Schlien. 3. Kenneth Hansen. 4. Nicklas Posing. 4. Ryan Fisher. 5. Robert Lambert. 5. Kyle Howarth. 6. Lewis Kerr 6. Jason Garrity 7. Lewis Rose 7. James Sarjeant Heat 1 NKI Bjerre Andersen Harris Heat 2 Schlien Porsing Hansen Fisher Heat 3 Kerr Rose Garrity Sarjeant Heat 4 Lambert NKI Howarth Andersen Heat 5 Bjerre Schlien Harris Hansen Heat 6 Porsing Lambert Fisher Howarth Heat 7 Kerr Rose Garrity Sarjaent Heat 8 NKI Schlien Andersen Hansen Heat 9 Bjerre Porsing Harris Fisher Heat 10 Lambert Kerr Howarth Garrity Heat 11 NKI Porsing Andersen Fisher Heat 12 Lambert Rose Howarth Sarjaent Heat 13 Bjerre Schlien Harris Hansen Heat 14 Kerr Rose Garrity Sarjaent Heat 15 Nominated Race According to Graham Drury (November 2013?) your three heatleaders have to be at No's 1,3 and 5, although not neccesarily in average order, similarly your second strings can be at number 2 or 4. Agreed, that's already been confirmed so race format is way off. Why don't people just wait until its released? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Agreed, that's already been confirmed so race format is way off. Why don't people just wait until its released? In my case just trying to point out the scale of the problem and a possible way to deal with it in a structured way. Just trying to help people understand the implications of it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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