Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Is there anymore more stupid a thing than this so-called 'history' site on proboards completely ignoring the third tier racing record of riders? Why on earth does it do that? Completely nullifies any legitimacy of that site as being a full record of a rider's career. Here's an example: http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/444 Misses out all references to the meetings a double Conference/National League Riders Champ has ridden in the third tier! Don't know if anyone on the BSF also deals with this 'proboards' site but if they do can they possibly explain..?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJ Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Given the fact that those who update the site have to painstakingly copy/paste (if lucky) or type each meeting result and summary, I think that they deserve a medal for the time and effort they have devoted so as to share everything that they presently collate. Considering they do this for free and don't need to share it with the rest of us, perhaps it'd be more beneficial if you offered your services to them rather than being critical of their efforts? Personally I've found the site useful quite a few times over the years - although it's a shame it isn't database driven and 'fed' by Speedway Updates so as to eradicate the duplicated effort and to drive alternative analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 I can't agree.. They are deliberately leaving out third tier appearances - literally no mention of them. Simple question, why do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJ Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 You may have asked a simple question but you prefixed this by insulting their efforts. Perhaps it is harder to consistently acquire the information? maybe the existing information is already taking as long to collate as they are willing to devote? Every bit of information that they display on their site takes time and effort to find and record. If you look at the small number of names posting information and compare this to the number of pages in the site, it's quite clear that the project has taken a helluva lot of time over the years. We should be thankful that they've done this and kindly shared it with us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 But for many riders the info. is totally flawed as it misses out their third tier appearances. Malcolm Vasey has detailed all such records in painstaking detail so via his books a simple process to update. I still believe the omission must be deliberate rather than simply saying it's too difficult to get hold of.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) I update the rider element of that site. I haven't included the third tier because in my view it is the equivalent of junior racing and is of no interest to me. Similar to Parsloes' insult in many ways. Edited November 22, 2013 by frigbo 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 I update the rider element of that site. I haven't included the third tier because in my view it is the equivalent of junior racing and is of no interest to me. Similar to Parsloes' insult in many ways. What a wonderfully direct answer. No sugar coating there. All that spin on the 'fountain of youth' coming to the Top Division next year. When this is the view of some really committed followers of the sport. A top league with two 'Junior' races included may have limited appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 I update the rider element of that site. I haven't included the third tier because in my view it is the equivalent of junior racing and is of no interest to me. Similar to Parsloes' insult in many ways. So then the riding record of the World Champion, Tai Woffinden is not included in his first season then. 'Junior racing'...?! Pathetic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) Simple answer then Parsnips old fruit surely is for you to set up a separate website, do the necessary research and then, once you've got all the info, transfer all the details you've gathered to the website you've set up? Edited November 22, 2013 by Bryn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) Anyone interested in speedway stats - and, let's be honest, every serious fan should be - then I can tell you with utter glee that I am about to update my British Speedway Leagues Book 1991-13, which I last bothered with after the 2009 season. Anyone who hasn't had a copy in their grubs in the past should get a move on... it is intended as a follow on Peter Oakes' 1965-90 book and contains all the same stuff - averages, results, tables. Somebody has to keep the stats buffs out there off the streets, and I am that person. For those who like to delve through all the three main leagues, which this effort includes without trying to save ink, then I am pleased to point you towards this... and will transport you, with a fondness for facts-and-figures, to your own personal space for what you may aptly call "Me Time." Without fans like us, speedway wouldn't have a serious archive of stats - we have Peter Morrish's 1946-64 book, Peter Oakes' 1965-90.. and then, of course, this one... compiled by yours truly. Almost forgot... there is Matt Jackson's superb work also. Edited November 22, 2013 by moxey63 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Hmm, yes but the point is that there is this website purporting to be a definitive record of Speedway riders' records in the British leagues but actually deliberately supresses info. on whole sections of riders' careers... And the reason? The completely ridiculous, bigotted views of one individual who , completely laughably, believes the third division to be 'junior racing'... Stll at least it's been admitted now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Hmm, yes but the point is that there is this website purporting to be a definitive record of Speedway riders' records in the British leagues but actually deliberately supresses info. on whole sections of riders' careers... And the reason? The completely ridiculous, bigotted views of one individual who , completely laughably, believes the third division to be 'junior racing'... Stll at least it's been admitted now... So then are you going to set up a separate website Parsnips old fruit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) It shouldn't really be up to fans to put up a website detailing the history of what's supposed to be a professional sport.. Any sport worth its salt should have a website which details everything you want to know, presnt day right down to 1928. Speedway, especially the early years, has had a shoddy approach regarding the keeping of facts and figures about itself... It is really sad that serious magazines of the time failed to even bother including some matches.. and leaves sites like The Speedway Researcher trying to rewind and fill in all the gaps. Edited November 22, 2013 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 And we are still seeing that same attitude today, as proven here, by some who think certain matches/even whole leagues aren't worthy of recording.. Thank the lord for Mr. Vasey (hmm, not something I thought I'd ever say with such enthusiasm!!) and his several volumes (filling a whole cupboard in the very room I'm currently sitting!)of facts and figures about the third tier. When will the 2012 & '13 volume(s) be coming out Mr. V.? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) Hmm, yes but the point is that there is this website purporting to be a definitive record of Speedway riders' records in the British leagues but actually deliberately supresses info. on whole sections of riders' careers... And the reason? The completely ridiculous, bigotted views of one individual who , completely laughably, believes the third division to be 'junior racing'... Stll at least it's been admitted now... Doesn't purport anything of the sort. The extract below is the website Introduction: "The following section is posted with enormous gratitude to Frigbo who has allowed us to use his extensive rider database. It contains all riders from the top two British leagues from 1965 and lists details of every appearance (including guest appearances by 2nd division riders for 1st division teams. Guest rides undertaken in the same league as the rider's club are not included), as well as individual honours. In the case of GP appearances, a "wildcard" could mean a rider who has come in to replace another. As you can imagine, this has been a time consuming project for us, as well as those who should also be named and thanked for their considerable help - Subedei, kevh, hatcham and genghis. So for this reason, I would ask that our copyright is respected. We would also like to thank Doug MacFarlane for allowing us to use his photos. Again, please respect his copyright. We have also been working hard to archive full results for as many meetings as possible. Results for junior meetings have been indexed on the same thread as the senior meetings to avoid having too many threads on one board and for ease of viewing. Likewise for National Championships - British, Swedish, Polish, etc, finals are all on one thread. The indexes in this section should provide quick links to results and riders in the database. Please let us know of any errors or omissions so they can be corrected as soon as possible. Read more: http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/2931/introduction#ixzz2lOqu6ecA" Need to pay more pre-rant attention next time Mr P. Maybe you missed it as you're so busy collating all of the third tier rider and meeting data?? Give us a shout in 4 years time when you've pulled together as much as we have. Edited November 22, 2013 by frigbo 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) At a time when people are relying on foodbanks, living on the streets and losing their jobs... why must people argue about trivial things? Edited November 22, 2013 by moxey63 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Is there anymore more stupid a thing than this so-called 'history' site on proboards completely ignoring the third tier racing record of riders? Hmm, yes but the point is that there is this website purporting to be a definitive record of Speedway riders' records in the British leagues but actually deliberately supresses info. on whole sections of riders' careers... And the reason? The completely ridiculous, bigotted views of one individual who , completely laughably, believes the third division to be 'junior racing'... Stll at least it's been admitted now... is there a name for your condition, and perhaps more importantly, is there a cure? Are you going to put these missing stats together yourself, or just hinge that others haven't done it...? Anyone interested in speedway stats - and, let's be honest, every serious fan should be - then I can tell you with utter glee that I am about to update my British Speedway Leagues Book 1991-13, which I last bothered with after the 2009 season. Anyone who hasn't had a copy in their grubs in the past should get a move on... it is intended as a follow on Peter Oakes' 1965-90 book and contains all the same stuff - averages, results, tables. i do find it baffling that this task is left to enthusiasts, rather than "the establishment." Great that there are at least some people out there who do this. Does anyone know where a copy of the peter oakes book can be obtained for a resonable price? and, and this is not a dig at the proboards site hich is excellent, but does anyone know of a site which list the averages by season for riders in BL matches only (rather than all competitive matches). And a question for Frigbo: Is there a way that your databse could be configured so that all the averages for a particular season could be viewed, rather than by individual rider? (e.g. display 1982, and it ould show all averages for all riders for that season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma23 Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Alternative: http://www.historyspeedway.nstrefa.pl/zawodnik.php?imie=Steve&nazwisko=Boxall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 I can't agree.. They are deliberately leaving out third tier appearances - literally no mention of them. Simple question, why do that? When I first discovered this site I clicked on the name of a third tier rider who never rode outside the old Conference League. According to the History Site he does not presumably exist? But for many riders the info. is totally flawed as it misses out their third tier appearances. Malcolm Vasey has detailed all such records in painstaking detail so via his books a simple process to update. I still believe the omission must be deliberate rather than simply saying it's too difficult to get hold of.. A spot on comment. I update the rider element of that site. I haven't included the third tier because in my view it is the equivalent of junior racing and is of no interest to me. Similar to Parsloes' insult in many ways. So the choice is merely because you do not recognise the third tier as "real" speedway? Hmm, yes but the point is that there is this website purporting to be a definitive record of Speedway riders' records in the British leagues but actually deliberately supresses info. on whole sections of riders' careers... And the reason? The completely ridiculous, bigotted views of one individual who , completely laughably, believes the third division to be 'junior racing'... Stll at least it's been admitted now... How well P1928 summarises this rather ridiculous situation of the website ignoring years of Conference League and present-day National League speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJ Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 When I first discovered this site I clicked on the name of a third tier rider who never rode outside the old Conference League. According to the History Site he does not presumably exist? A spot on comment. So the choice is merely because you do not recognise the third tier as "real" speedway? How well P1928 summarises this rather ridiculous situation of the website ignoring years of Conference League and present-day National League speedway. Surely it is THEIR choice as to what information they decide to spend time inputting?! If it is insufficient there is always the option of either not looking at it or putting your own money, time and effort towards devising a more complete picture. If those behind the site hadn't decided to donate their time towards the project, the only way to view such information would be via buying a book or painstakingly researching it yourself. Maybe some would indeed like to see Conference League information added but this clearly takes additional time and effort to collate. Are you offering to do this for them? So many people expect/demand things for free without considering the time and effort that somebody else spends to deliver it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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