barrow boy Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Is there a rule that covers when a Premier League rider's Doubling up Elite League average reaches a level which then prevents him from continuing in the Premier League. I think there is something in place which covers a similar situation between National and Premier but I just wondered if there is a something in place between Premier And Elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Is there a rule that covers when a Premier League rider's Doubling up Elite League average reaches a level which then prevents him from continuing in the Premier League. I think there is something in place which covers a similar situation between National and Premier but I just wondered if there is a something in place between Premier And Elite. I think they stay the same for the rest of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 I think they stay the same for the rest of the season. But what about the following season. If a rider finishes with say a 7+ BEL average is he still allowed to ride in the PEL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond_ren Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 But what about the following season. If a rider finishes with say a 7+ BEL average is he still allowed to ride in the PEL? If it's good enough for Sweden. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellers101 Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Depends which team is asking and the time of the season! BSPA just nake it up as they go along. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willowman Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 You would have thought that it would be something along the lines of when their converted PL average from the EL exceeds an achievable PL average, say 11, i.e.an EL average of 6.6. But that would be far too sensible. That would exclude Craig Cook and Jason Doyle from racing in the PL which doesn't seem unreasonable considering their ability in the EL. Funnily enough though, Ben Barker and Edward Kennett would still be allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Is there a rule that covers when a Premier League rider's Doubling up Elite League average reaches a level which then prevents him from continuing in the Premier League. I think there is something in place which covers a similar situation between National and Premier but I just wondered if there is a something in place between Premier And Elite. If there is, then in my opinion it's one of many foolish rules that increasingly turns people away from the sport. What happens if in theory a rider's average is too high for him to continue in the PL but no EL team can fit him into their side (at the same time sacking an already team member)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 If there is, then in my opinion it's one of many foolish rules that increasingly turns people away from the sport. What happens if in theory a rider's average is too high for him to continue in the PL but no EL team can fit him into their side (at the same time sacking an already team member)? But Craig Cook's real average, not rolling average, in last season's Premier was 11.55 and he has publically said that he has no intention of becoming a full time Elite rider and is quite happy to continue doubling up. Should this be allowed to happen if say he continues to find riding at an easier level just that, too easy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchopper Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Why do we insist on dumbing down our product and punishing riders for good performances. It is already quite difficult for teams to fit in a rider on cookies average and you want to bring in a rule to stop your top performers racing. I understand the need to attempt to get all teams competitive but the idea is fundamentally flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Why do we insist on dumbing down our product and punishing riders for good performances. It is already quite difficult for teams to fit in a rider on cookies average and you want to bring in a rule to stop your top performers racing. I understand the need to attempt to get all teams competitive but the idea is fundamentally flawed. I fear that speedway MAY be heading on a course where teams will depend on lower quality in order to meet increasing costs? I wonder why anyone would want to be a speedway rider with the fact hanging in the background that if they get too good there could well be no place for them in British speedway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Why do we insist on dumbing down our product and punishing riders for good performances. It is already quite difficult for teams to fit in a rider on cookies average and you want to bring in a rule to stop your top performers racing. I understand the need to attempt to get all teams competitive but the idea is fundamentally flawed. Whilst I agree with the main thrust of your argument - it has to be said that if one Rider is streets ahead in ability to the rest of his competition - wins by miles every time he races - then that IS a bit boring for the Spectator who enjoys good Racing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 But Craig Cook's real average, not rolling average, in last season's Premier was 11.55 and he has publically said that he has no intention of becoming a full time Elite rider and is quite happy to continue doubling up. Should this be allowed to happen if say he continues to find riding at an easier level just that, too easy? He didn't say that at all he said he would double up again this year because financially it wasn't possible for him to just do the EL on it's own unless he got a team spot in poland/sweden which he hasn't managed to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Watching Cook last year was probably the first time I've thought Anyone was to good, he's streets ahead of most if not all in the PL..and I can see why the nitro rumour mongers were piping up, because its not the norm. Don't think I've never seen a rider win by so far around Brough, he was at least half a lap ahead, so when someone is that much better the entertainment value is virtually nil IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted November 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Watching Cook last year was probably the first time I've thought Anyone was to good, he's streets ahead of most if not all in the PL..and I can see why the nitro rumour mongers were piping up, because its not the norm. Don't think I've never seen a rider win by so far around Brough, he was at least half a lap ahead, so when someone is that much better the entertainment value is virtually nil IMO. Why do we insist on dumbing down our product and punishing riders for good performances. It is already quite difficult for teams to fit in a rider on cookies average and you want to bring in a rule to stop your top performers racing. I understand the need to attempt to get all teams competitive but the idea is fundamentally flawed. I did not imply that such a rider should be prevented from riding. I just think that if he keeps winning races too easily in a lower standard of racing he should want to commit himself to a higher standard for the advancement of his career. Obviously if he feels he cannot afford to change then, that is the fault of the way the sport is run, but that is another matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 The way I see it is so long as he maintains a PL average any rider can continue evrn if it was the full 12. If he had a year out then if would be reassessed against the EL average and anything above 7.2 would prevent re entry to the PL under the current conversion rate. Technically it could be possible to average less in the PL than the EL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Stewart Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Watching Cook last year was probably the first time I've thought Anyone was to good, he's streets ahead of most if not all in the PL..and I can see why the nitro rumour mongers were piping up, because its not the norm. Don't think I've never seen a rider win by so far around Brough, he was at least half a lap ahead, so when someone is that much better the entertainment value is virtually nil IMO. I think you are overstating the extent of Craig's dominance on the basis of two maximums at Newcastle. He rode 231 races for Monarchs last year and scored (with bonus) 628 points, a great effort, but that is still 65 dropped points over the season. There was plenty of entertainment along the way, numerous wins from the back, so it wasn't boring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 The way I see it is so long as he maintains a PL average any rider can continue evrn if it was the full 12. If he had a year out then if would be reassessed against the EL average and anything above 7.2 would prevent re entry to the PL under the current conversion rate. Technically it could be possible to average less in the PL than the EL. Yes, this was put to the test a couple of years ago when Joe Screen was wanted by Glasgow, and his conversion rate was above the 12 average. He stayed a Wolves, but was only going to stay for only 11 meetings then join them, but because Skornicki had not returned from injury in time, Joe stayed on, got a conversion average below 12, and he then joined Glasgow on a 2 year loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skthecat Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 And here begins the problem with the PL no longer being a stepping stone between NL and EL. It is now and has been for a number of years a seperate league...... PL promoters don't want to be a stepping stone, its to risky.. promising youngsters are tried all to briefly, if they don't hit the ground running with scores of say 5 and over, they're out, and in comes the the 2nd rate jonny foreigner. ......... And at the other end, Craig Cook and Jason Doyle cream the opposition week in week out.. Jason Doyle, even rode at number one in both EL and PL this year....! That cannot be right or good for the sport in general. How to prevent this? Well, I am not sure, but end it must. Perhaps a cap ob the amount of seasons you can compete in both, then you have to choose one or the other because as it is, its more comparable with say Rugby League and Rugby Union, than it is a First Division and a Second Division..... if you see what I mean...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythman666 Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 I think you are overstating the extent of Craig's dominance on the basis of two maximums at Newcastle. He rode 231 races for Monarchs last year and scored (with bonus) 628 points, a great effort, but that is still 65 dropped points over the season. There was plenty of entertainment along the way, numerous wins from the back, so it wasn't boring. That's a compelling argument, and whilst I agree with you, especially at Armadale the guy is a joy to watch, I'm personally not a huge fan of the guy, but there is no doubting his ability....and he has been dominant all season. You mention he dropped 65 points all season, that's an incredible statistic, but to be fair, I do believe that this proves anyone is beatable, I honestly think you could have any GP rider ride a PL season and he wouldn't gothe whole season unbeaten, no way, so based on that, is anyone ever really too good? Flip side of that is I believe Craig Cook has all the tools to be a top level rider, but if he has any ambition he needs to be riding abroad on a regular basis and not in the PL, but I also understand that this requires more backing and more expense, so it is kind of a double edged sword for the lad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 It must be easy to reassess the conversion rate. There were plenty of d/u last year so it would be a good sample size. Total up all the scores in both leagues and find an average average and see what the real ratio is. The biggest problem is having the correct info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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