Elite League Draft Riders

[Tsunami]

Possibly. But surely you can see this has killed off the careers of Auty, Roynon and Birks. Birks before it has even got going. Yet Lee Smart will add nothing, absolutely nothing to the EL, in fact on his currently trajectory he'll be lucky to average 1 next season

I party agree, and certainly do agree with Smart. Don't worry, I think the BSPA probably thought that the named riders would get fixed up and be signed up, but they will as the season goes on. Not the end of the world, nothing happens in life when everyone wins.

[SCB]

it might turn out to be a great thing for Auty, a kick up the backside anyway. I hope so anyway. As for Adam it might give him a chance to slow down a little and concentrate on the PL for a few months too rather than trying to ride 3 or 4 meetings a meeting as he was doing. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on this one and assume it was a good idea with good intentions. I just hope it works well - I'm not yet convinced.

[Crump99]

 

Do you think allowing Leicester into the E.L. had anything to do with the decision? Peterborough were against them joining last season as Frost seemed to think quite a few Leicester fans were going to the Showground and their support would be lost.

 

If it was on the table again then it wouldn't have helped and would have been a good excuse. I don't buy the "will cost us fans" argument". Leicester in the same league would have stimulated interest in the region and given local derbies. Having Boston, Mildenhall etc in the same league never did any harm. I'd say there was something more about Leicester & Peterborough that we don't know. Pretty standard for we paying public to be kept in the dark

[foamfence]

The draft will have nothing to do with making winners of people the bottom line is that they would have made it any how with out the help of this dumb rule .. As for a long idea I have the feeling that this rule will only last one year .. As CRUMP has already said a cut cutting idea under the guise of trying to help the young brits .

Is that feeling based on the fact that you don't like the rule?

If one Brit raises his game because of this, then it HAS helped young Brits.

The set-up as was, couldn't carry on anyway, so if this makes promoting more affordable AND helps some Brits. Then it's a good thing. I'm happy with it, you're obviously not (then I've yet to see anything that you are happy with), I'm happy to give it a go, you aren't (but have no option), that's an end to it.... Wait and see what happens (insert usual moan followed by "nothing" here).

[Crump99]

Is that feeling based on the fact that you don't like the rule?

If one Brit raises his game because of this, then it HAS helped young Brits.

The set-up as was, couldn't carry on anyway, so if this makes promoting more affordable AND helps some Brits. Then it's a good thing. I'm happy with it, you're obviously not (then I've yet to see anything that you are happy with), I'm happy to give it a go, you aren't (but have no option), that's an end to it.... Wait and see what happens (insert usual moan followed by "nothing" here).

 

Your reply strengthens his post IMO. He doesn't like the rule and thinks it'll not help to swell the finances or develop new talent, you haven't said much that'll convince him. He knows how the BSPA works and promoters will panic if the losses continues and ditch it pdq. He says that anyone decent will raise their game anyway but why should supporters pay for the experiment? When speedway stops the annual race to the bottom then orion might turn positive but each AGM just gives him another 12 months ammunition.

[Hodgy]

Is that feeling based on the fact that you don't like the rule?If one Brit raises his game because of this, then it HAS helped young Brits.The set-up as was, couldn't carry on anyway, so if this makes promoting more affordable AND helps some Brits. Then it's a good thing. I'm happy with it, you're obviously not (then I've yet to see anything that you are happy with), I'm happy to give it a go, you aren't (but have no option), that's an end to it.... Wait and see what happens (insert usual moan followed by "nothing" here).

If one Brit raises their game but several more who improved or retained their game last season are frozen out, you consider that progress?

[Vince]

Somebody is always going to miss out when a new system is introduced, this is very hard on riders like Auty but if he had been included (and I would have liked to have seen that) it would have been somebody else just missing out. Lets hope the system is allowed to run over a number of years so that the bugs are ironed out and time allowed for riders to benefit.

 

I think the expectations of the system could be it's biggest downfall. If people are expecting these lads to become EL 2nd strings for 2015 then it is doomed to failure. There is a slight possibility of that happening now and again but more realistically they will get a very good education and go up a level in the PL and have the knowledge to work their way back into the EL over a couple of years. Riders like Auty and Roynon are hopefully already in a position where they have the experience and can continue to improve with time.

 

The success or otherwise of this idea will only really be known in a few years time by whether both leagues have a significantly higher percentage of British riders, expecting more GP riders is in my opinion unrealistic as riders of that calibre work their way through any system. I firmly believe that the most important thing is to populate the leagues with British riders and to that end solid PL second strings are as valuable as EL heat leaders.

[E I Addio]

The simple answer is only the number 7 should have been a NL rider this year. 2 rider is too much and has forced rider who have half a chance like Birks, Roynon and Auty out of the EL now. They should be there and not the 4 rider I keep using as an example, probably wouldn't be hard to pick out 6 more who stand little chance of making it. It's a good idea thats been poorly executed IMO. though from a selfish POV, Coventry seem to have come out of it well.

But doesn't that lead to other problems though ?

 

For one thing it means your NL guy won't usually get near the likes of Roynon, let alone Auty, so will spend most matches scratching out 3rd or 4th places with almost no chance of a win and little chance the spectators will see roughly evenly matched riders in the reserve races.

 

The bigger problem though is that to get Auty in somewhere at reserve you would have to raise the points limit to 37 for your 1-6 and then you open the door to teams juggling things around to maybe get a 3 pointer at reserve and another 6/7 pointer in the top 5 and you are defeating the object of the exercise (especially if its a foreign rider that comes in).

 

The problem as far as Auty is concerned is that once they decided to reduce the points limit even by a small amount Auty is going to find it difficult to get a job in the EL because he really doesn't seem to have the abilty to be any more than a 4/5point rider. Richard Lawson on the same sort of average as Auty has got an EL job riding in the 1-5 but he at least is a reasonable gater, with evidence of a years improvement and a reasonable expectation of more improvement but as long as we have a low points limit I can't see many EL promoters wanting Auty unless he really works at his game in the PL and overcomes some of his flaws especially gating.

 

I can see the argument for Birks and Roynon on their lower averages but I can't see how you could accommodate them without opening another can of worms .

Edited December 16, 2013 by E I Addio

[orion]

Is that feeling based on the fact that you don't like the rule?

If one Brit raises his game because of this, then it HAS helped young Brits.

The set-up as was, couldn't carry on anyway, so if this makes promoting more affordable AND helps some Brits. Then it's a good thing. I'm happy with it, you're obviously not (then I've yet to see anything that you are happy with), I'm happy to give it a go, you aren't (but have no option), that's an end to it.... Wait and see what happens (insert usual moan followed by "nothing" here).

We won't have to wait as we will know what will happen ...Crowds will drop teams will cheat on the rule and then the rule will be dropped after a year . Due to drop in crowds it won't save any money and young brits will find there own way anyhow with out this rule .

[stratton]

But doesn't that lead to other problems though ?

 

For one thing it means your NL guy won't usually get near the likes of Roynon, let alone Auty, so will spend most matches scratching out 3rd or 4th places with almost no chance of a win and little chance the spectators will see roughly evenly matched riders in the reserve races.

 

The bigger problem though is that to get Auty in somewhere at reserve you would have to raise the points limit to 37 for your 1-6 and then you open the door to teams juggling things around to maybe get a 3 pointer at reserve and another 6/7 pointer in the top 5 and you are defeating the object of the exercise (especially if its a foreign rider that comes in).

 

The problem as far as Auty is concerned is that once they decided to reduce the points limit even by a small amount Auty is going to find it difficult to get a job in the EL because he really doesn't seem to have the abilty to be any more than a 4/5point rider. Richard Lawson on the same sort of average as Auty has got an EL job riding in the 1-5 but he at least is a reasonable gater, with evidence of a years improvement and a reasonable expectation of more improvement but as long as we have a low points limit I can't see many EL promoters wanting Auty unless he really works at his game in the PL and overcomes some of his flaws especially gating.

 

I can see the argument for Birks and Roynon on their lower averages but I can't see how you could accommodate them without opening another can of worms .

Lawson i like alot but are you in reality Auty ok is an awful starter but in my mind is still in front of him Lawson i think he beat Lawson quite a few times last year and from the back.OK Auty has to regroup now but no way Lawson is miles in front of him ok he can gate but lets get things right Lawson is not a young rider either.

[E I Addio]

Lawson i like alot but are you in reality Auty ok is an awful starter but in my mind is still in front of him Lawson i think he beat Lawson quite a few times last year and from the back.OK Auty has to regroup now but no way Lawson is miles in front of him ok he can gate but lets get things right Lawson is not a young rider either.

oh, Sidney read what I am saying in the context of the discussion and the earlier posts. I am simply pointing out that however you frame the rules riders like Auty are going to find it hard to get an EL job at reserve once you lower the points limit. I only mentioned Lawson because he is on a similar sort of average to Auty and has had to go into the1-5. I am not comparing their abilities as riders.

[stratton]

oh, Sidney read what I am saying in the context of the discussion and the earlier posts. I am simply pointing out that however you frame the rules riders like Auty are going to find it hard to get an EL job at reserve once you lower the points limit. I only mentioned Lawson because he is on a similar sort of average to Auty and has had to go into the1-5. I am not comparing their abilities as riders.

But you did point out Lawson was a gater, so he should get his chance but if what you say is true are you happy that inferior riders are coming into the EL.? Edited December 16, 2013 by sidney

[Tsunami]

But you did point out Lawson was a gater, so he should get his chance but if what you say is true are you happy that inferior riders are coming into the EL.?

"Inferior as in NOT a GP or expensive foreigner." That's the whole point. Trying to bring on OUR own riders to replace the ones we can't afford. BTW Poland and Sweden also have 'inferior' riders in reserve places with the same rules, only they are higher quality than ours and they have used this form of 'development' for a little while now.

[phillipsr]

Lawson is better than Auty. Just look at averages

[stratton]

Lawson is better than Auty. Just look at averages

On figures last year maybe not alot in it really, both should have jobs in the EL this year but that is not the case instead the EL will have riders riding who are not good anough end of.

[Tsunami]

On figures last year maybe not alot in it really, both should have jobs in the EL this year but that is not the case instead the EL will have riders riding who are not good anough end of.

Quite agree sidney. Much better to pay foreigners money we don't have, go bust and them everyone will be saying "why didn't we concentrate on our own kids".

Being a Swindon fan, I know you have had a bit to say about your locals such as Ashby and Kilby.

Well, don't give kids rides and you will definitely never see their sort again. And that WILL be END OF.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Tsunami

[orion]

Quite agree sidney. Much better to pay foreigners money we don't have, go bust and them everyone will be saying "why didn't we concentrate on our own kids".

Being a Swindon fan, I know you have had a bit to say about your locals such as Ashby and Kilby. Well, don't give kids rides and you will definitely never see their sort again.

Plenty of other leagues for them to ride in no need for it to be in the EL ...This mind set that it will save money is misplaced as the crowds will dip ...Why people think that the crowds will be the same when the admission is the same is crazy .

[SCB]

Quite agree sidney. Much better to pay foreigners money we don't have, go bust and them everyone will be saying "why didn't we concentrate on our own kids".

Being a Swindon fan, I know you have had a bit to say about your locals such as Ashby and Kilby.

Well, don't give kids rides and you will definitely never see their sort again. And that WILL be END OF.

Tell that to the Pl clubs who have (have) Danes, Aussies and Argentinians, Czechs and pretty much anyone with a bike in reserve in recent years. Maybe if it'll save money having Brits Glasgow might like to try signing a few for a change for a start.

[Tsunami]

Tell that to the Pl clubs who have (have) Danes, Aussies and Argentinians, Czechs and pretty much anyone with a bike in reserve in recent years. Maybe if it'll save money having Brits Glasgow might like to try signing a few for a change for a start.

So we try to reverse this trend and you still moan.

Good job some folks just get on with the job that has to be done, and ignore some others.

[E I Addio]

But you did point out Lawson was a gater, so he should get his chance but if what you say is true are you happy that inferior riders are coming into the EL.?

 

What I said was that Lawson is a reasonable gater.

 

No, I am not happy that inferior riders are coming into the EL but I would rather have 2 NL riders in the side and !8 Home league matches with all teams playing each other twice than the old system of 14 matches and playing some teams twice and some teams once.

Edited December 17, 2013 by E I Addio