Elite League Draft Riders

[Daniel Smith]

Who do you think will be the riders in the groups? Where would you place them? Here's my list

 

Group A PL Ave:-

 

Ashley Birks 7.30 (Swindon)

Josh Auty 7.24 ( Birmingham)

Andrew Tully 7.19 (Belle Vue)

Kyle Howarth 6.63 (Poole)

Lewis Kerr 6.09 (Kings Lynn)

Jason Garrity 5.45 (Leicester)

Kyle Newman 5.32 (Eastbourne)

Lewis Blackbird 4.93 (Wolverhampton)

Charles Wright 4.30 (Coventry)

Adam Ellis 4.25 (Lakeside)

 

Group B NL Ave:-

 

Robert Lambert 10.30 (Kings Lynn)

Paul Starke 9.93 (Wolverhampton)

Ashley Morris 8.83 (Birmingham)

Joe Jacobs 8.71 (Coventry)

Robert Branford 8.53 (Swindon)

Stefan Nielsen 8.00 (Leicester)

Ben Reade 7.70 (Belle Vue)

Jake Knight 7.62 (Eastbourne))

Josh Bates 7.49 (Poole)

Daniel Halsey 7.43 (Lakeside)

[Woz01]

Auty is a Bees asset so if he is on the list I'd hope he would ride for Coventry.

[mdmc82]

Auty and Howarth wont be on list as its only PL riders under a certain avg who have "Little EL experience" which rules both out.

However if Auty had been in it then he would be allocated to his parent club Coventry.

 

Hoping Coventry have Garriety

 

Think from Fords interviews he already knows he is getting Newman before the allocation

Edited November 19, 2013 by mdmc82

[fish keeper]

I would like to see Morris and Blackbird or Perry at wolves.

[Rockets]

I'd like to know why you have Garrity as a Leicester asset.

[TonyE]

So Lakeside get the worst averaged rider in both lists!

[MattK]

There's a massive disparity between the top and bottom riders in each group.

[Hackett]

I think they should do it like the NFL .... So Coventry Bees get first pick then Eastbourne etc etc .. Let's just hope this is a long term look at improving and developing British Talent rather than a cost saving exercise.

[brewer]

Why didn't you put knight in kings Lynn?

So your putting wright from Manchester at cov. Bates from north I believe at poole knight down to Eastbourne newman from poole to Eastbourne howarth from Manchester to poole reade from swindon to belle vue not sure you thought this through. Wheres steve worrall.

Edited November 19, 2013 by brewer

[Conkers in Gravy]

An American-style draft is an attractive idea, but many of these lads have school/college/jobs to worry about so I suspect riders will be matched up with clubs that suit their commitments outside the sport. Club assets also have to be taken into consideration - I can't imagine CVS, for example, being happy to see Ashley Morris line up at any track other than Monmore.

[arthur cross]

Who do you think will be the riders in the groups? Where would you place them? Here's my list

 

Group A PL Ave:-

 

Ashley Birks 7.30 (Swindon)

Josh Auty 7.24 ( Birmingham)

Andrew Tully 7.19 (Belle Vue)

Kyle Howarth 6.63 (Poole)

Lewis Kerr 6.09 (Kings Lynn)

Jason Garrity 5.45 (Leicester)

Kyle Newman 5.32 (Eastbourne)

Lewis Blackbird 4.93 (Wolverhampton)

Charles Wright 4.30 (Coventry)

Adam Ellis 4.25 (Lakeside)

 

Group B NL Ave:-

 

Robert Lambert 10.30 (Kings Lynn)

Paul Starke 9.93 (Wolverhampton)

Ashley Morris 8.83 (Birmingham)

Joe Jacobs 8.71 (Coventry)

Robert Branford 8.53 (Swindon)

Stefan Nielsen 8.00 (Leicester)

Ben Reade 7.70 (Belle Vue)

Jake Knight 7.62 (Eastbourne))

Josh Bates 7.49 (Poole)

Daniel Halsey 7.43 (Lakeside)

Andrew Tully will be 27 next May ... surely that's stretching "young" a bit too far !!

 

What's the point in grading Josh Auty into a half-baked schedule of rides as a graded reserve when he's just finished a full season in the same league on a traditional reserve's schedule with a 4.90 average ? !! ... that wouldn't be "fast-tracking" his career, it'd be "putting the brakes on" !!

 

Ashley Birks and Kyle Howarth aren't in quite as clear-cut a situation as I've just mentioned for Auty ... but they've both already shown at Swindon this year they can cope with the traditional reserve's schedule in the Elite League ... in fact, Howarth's Elite average (4.28) is further ahead of Birks (3.06) than the margin by which Birks leads Howarth in the Premier League !!

 

And quite why plenty of folk on this forum are conjuring up lists of just the "top-20" or "10-A & 10-B" candidates for these reserve gradings is completely beyond me ... it'll only take a few weeks into the new season for a normal amount of injuries to keep at least 4 of the original 20 out of action so surely any lists need to be at least the "top-24" or bigger to allow for casualties ... otherwise, there'll be guest reserves galore as the best A-graders and B-graders ride for 3 or 4 teams in the same week to cover for the casualties elsewhere.

 

As I've mentioned on the general BSPA-AGM thread, I reckon this "graded young Brit" policy could work if it was only covering one of the reserve places in each team with the other reserve still being decided by averages (and open to any nationality) ... but this attempt to fill all 20 reserve places with this project is ridiculously over-ambitious, especially as I suspect at least a couple of the National League candidates would love to accept the offer but will reluctantly have to say "no thanks" due to issues like any job they have outside speedway (yes, they'll be very busy for the 7-months of the speedway season but that still might not be enough to cover chucking away a year-round job elsewhere).

 

Combining screamer's list and my observations above, you could establish a pool of 14 "graded young Brits" to fill 10 reserve places and cover for casualties with the following ...

 

12 certain candidates: Kerr, Garrity, Newman, Blackbird, C-Wright, Ellis, Lambert, Starke, Morris, Jacobs, Branford, Nielsen ... then it depends whether you're grading Howarth and Birks as the borderline examples of whether they'll be helped by this project or, alternatively, adding any 2 out of Reade, Knight. Bates and Halsey to complete the pool of 14

 

This isn't at all a direct criticism of screamer's list ... far more, it's a logical explanation of how over-ambitious this whole project looks because I've shown how screamer's 20 names can nearly be all used up just in making sure there are enough "graded young Brits" to cover one reserve slot in every team given a normal rate of casualties during the season.

 

Even if the spares among Reade, Knight, Bates and Halsey also start the pool for the second reserve slot, you're still having to go much further down the National League averages to fill that pool ... the next 10 relatively young riders on NL averages are ...

 

James Sarjeant 7.38

Ben Morley 7.13

Steve Worrall 7.09

Tom Young 7.04

Oliver Greenwood 6.89

Ben Hopwood 6.89

Liam Carr 6.87

Lewis Rose 6.76

Tom Perry 6.30

Max Clegg 6.27

 

Don't forget these riders will also be needed to fill several 3-point reserve places in Premier League line-ups ... I fear we risk burning out some of these youngsters if we're expecting them to cope with roughly a 90-meeting season across 3 leagues so early in their careers.

Edited November 19, 2013 by arthur cross

[A ORLOV]

arthur, I agree with many of your points and have posted on AGM thread about exactly what you are pointing out re the number of riders needed to cover injuries and the number of meetings for NL riders, many of who have jobs as do their mechanics/dads.

[Daniel Smith]

Andrew Tully will be 27 next May ... surely that's stretching "young" a bit too far !!What's the point in grading Josh Auty into a half-baked schedule of rides as a graded reserve when he's just finished a full season in the same league on a traditional reserve's schedule with a 4.90 average ? !! ... that wouldn't be "fast-tracking" his career, it'd be "putting the brakes on" !!Ashley Birks and Kyle Howarth aren't in quite as clear-cut a situation as I've just mentioned for Auty ... but they've both already shown at Swindon this year they can cope with the traditional reserve's schedule in the Elite League ... in fact, Howarth's Elite average (4.28) is further ahead of Birks (3.06) than the margin by which Birks leads Howarth in the Premier League !!And quite why plenty of folk on this forum are conjuring up lists of just the "top-20" or "10-A & 10-B" candidates for these reserve gradings is completely beyond me ... it'll only take a few weeks into the new season for a normal amount of injuries to keep at least 4 of the original 20 out of action so surely any lists need to be at least the "top-24" or bigger to allow for casualties ... otherwise, there'll be guest reserves galore as the best A-graders and B-graders ride for 3 or 4 teams in the same week to cover for the casualties elsewhere.As I've mentioned on the general BSPA-AGM thread, I reckon this "graded young Brit" policy could work if it was only covering one of the reserve places in each team with the other reserve still being decided by averages (and open to any nationality) ... but this attempt to fill all 20 reserve places with this project is ridiculously over-ambitious, especially as I suspect at least a couple of the National League candidates would love to accept the offer but will reluctantly have to say "no thanks" due to issues like any job they have outside speedway (yes, they'll be very busy for the 7-months of the speedway season but that still might not be enough to cover chucking away a year-round job elsewhere).Combining screamer's list and my observations above, you could establish a pool of 14 "graded young Brits" to fill 10 reserve places and cover for casualties with the following ...12 certain candidates: Kerr, Garrity, Newman, Blackbird, C-Wright, Ellis, Lambert, Starke, Morris, Jacobs, Branford, Nielsen ... then it depends whether you're grading Howarth and Birks as the borderline examples of whether they'll be helped by this project or, alternatively, adding any 2 out of Reade, Knight. Bates and Halsey to complete the pool of 14This isn't at all a direct criticism of screamer's list ... far more, it's a logical explanation of how over-ambitious this whole project looks because I've shown how screamer's 20 names can nearly be all used up just in making sure there are enough "graded young Brits" to cover one reserve slot in every team given a normal rate of casualties during the season.Even if the spares among Reade, Knight, Bates and Halsey also start the pool for the second reserve slot, you're still having to go much further down the National League averages to fill that pool ... the next 10 relatively young riders on NL averages are ...James Sarjeant 7.38Ben Morley 7.13Steve Worrall 7.09Tom Young 7.04Oliver Greenwood 6.89Ben Hopwood 6.89Liam Carr 6.87Lewis Rose 6.76Tom Perry 6.30Max Clegg 6.27Don't forget these riders will also be needed to fill several 3-point reserve places in Premier League line-ups ... I fear we risk burning out some of these youngsters if we're expecting them to cope with roughly a 90-meeting season across 3 leagues so early in their careers.

You are correct in some of the things you say. It's exactly why I created the thread so we all can physically see what we're up against allocating riders. Also the riders have to agree also. It would only take 2 or 3 to say "I'm not doing that" the system's up the poop creek before it starts.

 

My list creates a whole host of issues

 

1, Clubs not getting their assets

2, Clubs getting their assets but that's the strongest pairing around

3, The allocation will create logistics problems

4, Which riders should or shouldn't be on the list

 

Personally, maybe their should be a pot of 40 British under 25's riders. These riders then pick a 1-2-3 of clubs they'd like then they negotiate with said clubs. If all 40 had Poole as 1st choice that's great for Poole and they cherry pick the best for them and so they should as that's where the riders want to be. If nobody listed Belle Vue then they'd have to wait for the scraps and who says yes.

 

First a foremost, riders should not be forced to be where they don't want to be.

[INCOGNITO]

Each EL team should get to pick one of their own assets first to fill the number six race jacket.

 

Any team that does not have an asset to pick will then get the first pick until all teams have a number six rider.

 

Then the team with the lowest ranked reserve should get first pick of the number sevens and so on until all teams are completed. Then each team should be given the opportunity to sign another rider who has a lower average than anyone else to be their stand by rider to cover for clash of dates.

[MrMungo]

Andrew Tully will be 27 next May ... surely that's stretching "young" a bit too far !!

Where do you draw that line? Someone, somewhere has to miss it.

If Tully is considered too old at 26, then surely Blackbird, also 26, should be the same?

 

I don't like the idea of riders being "handpicked".

It sounds far too dodgy for my liking. There should be a strict guideline, eg under 25, never achieved PL average of 6+, and never held a full time EL spot, for example.

That way at least everyone knows where they stand.

 

I don't agree with everything on Screamer's list, but fair play on the old chap for giving it a go!

First person I've seen give it a try.

[Daniel Smith]

Where do you draw that line? Someone, somewhere has to miss it.If Tully is considered too old at 26, then surely Blackbird, also 26, should be the same?I don't like the idea of riders being "handpicked".It sounds far too dodgy for my liking. There should be a strict guideline, eg under 25, never achieved PL average of 6+, and never held a full time EL spot, for example.That way at least everyone knows where they stand.I don't agree with everything on Screamer's list, but fair play on the old chap for giving it a go!First person I've seen give it a try.

Thanks mate.

 

I purposely put that list together to frustrate others giving Kings Lynn Lambert & Kerr and putting other club assets elsewhere and they took it. Some clubs are going to be upset with who they get and some will be extremely happy.

 

I do think though that the riders first and foremost should be allowed to say yes or no. They just can't be forced to take a spot they don't want.

[Crazy robin]

The teams who have run junior sides should now get the reward for that by being able to use their assets or riders they've given track time to & the rest who didn't, well you had the chance.

[torpointfanatic22]

There is a possibility that riders like Kyle Howarth and Josh Auty could find themselves without EL rides unless they are included in the 'Draft Riders'. Whilst both have EL averages in the 4's they have hardly 'made it' in the EL. I think both would be risky main body riders and I'd question whether teams would go for them especially given that the reserves are likely to be weaker this year than previous years.

 

I hope some common sense prevails here as both of these riders are still young and improving and surely this system should be designed to help them as well as others who aren't yet at that level. You could also argue a case for the likes of Richard Lawson.

[ballroom]

There is a possibility that riders like Kyle Howarth and Josh Auty could find themselves without EL rides unless they are included in the 'Draft Riders'. Whilst both have EL averages in the 4's they have hardly 'made it' in the EL. I think both would be risky main body riders and I'd question whether teams would go for them especially given that the reserves are likely to be weaker this year than previous years.

 

I hope some common sense prevails here as both of these riders are still young and improving and surely this system should be designed to help them as well as others who aren't yet at that level. You could also argue a case for the likes of Richard Lawson.

 

thats the problem with promoting NL stars to EL, its puts up and coming Brits like Howarth and Auty at risk

[MattK]

 

thats the problem with promoting NL stars to EL, its puts up and coming Brits like Howarth and Auty at risk

 

Depends on the new heat format. If the lowest of your top five will have two rides against your opponent's reserves, then the likes of Birks, Howarth and Auty would beat them with one hand tied behind their backs.