Tactical Sub Rule

[barrow boy]

I'd be surprised to see it go regardless.

I would imagine most promoters are in favour of some sort of tactical ride, on the assumption that fans want closer meetings, and given that the double point rule is a cheaper option than the old tac sub rule, I think it's here to stay.

Also, with the introduction of the two junior reserves, reinstating the old tac sub rule would give them less opportunity and provide a bigger "swing" opportunity to the trailing side.

It would be easy enough to protect the reserves from being substituted. In fact it would be best if no tactical changes are allowed in any programmed reserves race.

[stevebrum]

It would be easy enough to protect the reserves from being substituted. In fact it would be best if no tactical changes are allowed in any programmed reserves race.

If they are following the Swedish/Polish route then both the races there wont be tacticals allowed in the reserve races. As it should be.

[bigcatdiary]

Good lord , i hope we do keep SKY.

If no sky or tv deal it will probably mean no EL

[stevebrum]

If no sky or tv deal it will probably mean no EL

Well its clear that there will be, maybe more diluted.

Even Jon Cook has said signings are subject to the TV deal going ahead.

[john birch]

The introduction of the academy league reserves muddies the issue but Poland have introduces a rule halving the points rate for riders on tac sub rides thus allowing an economic way for them to be reintroduced if adopted here. Those riders taking them would still earn more than if the tac sub ride didn,t exist.

Edited November 22, 2013 by tiberon

[Star Fever]

Well if they revert to the old style tac subs, hopefully it'll be at the same stages as now i.e. must be 10pts down for the first and 12pts down for the 2nd and none after heat 12.

 

I'd hate to see the old style 6pts down rule return, it was always so unfair on a side that had excelled itself to get a lead then see it wiped away - at least at 10 points ahead that would be less likely, and fits the purpose of 'making scores closer' and giving the losing team a chance, rather than handing a top heavy losing team an easy route to pinch an undeserved win.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Star Fever

[BluPanther]

There is a point of view that only the away team should be able to use a tactical. Home sides already have home advantage..

[Star Fever]

There is a point of view that only the away team should be able to use a tactical. Home sides already have home advantage..

 

Maybe so but life's not like that - if its a wet track for instance its the away team that usually has the advantage.

 

And what about an injury ravaged home team that has managed to build a 6pt lead regardless - should they then be further handicapped by seeing the under-performing away team stick in heat leaders where they fancy? I'm thinking of the old TS rule obviously and this often happened in the bad old days!

 

The one good thing about the modern TR is the larger gap between teams before they can be used.

[TonyE]

 

Maybe so but life's not like that - if its a wet track for instance its the away team that usually has the advantage.

 

And what about an injury ravaged home team that has managed to build a 6pt lead regardless - should they then be further handicapped by seeing the under-performing away team stick in heat leaders where they fancy? I'm thinking of the old TS rule obviously and this often happened in the bad old days!

 

The one good thing about the modern TR is the larger gap between teams before they can be used.

True but the points scored may be worth twice as much.

[stevebrum]

Well if they revert to the old style tac subs, hopefully it'll be at the same stages as now i.e. must be 10pts down for the first and 12pts down for the 2nd and none after heat 12.

 

I'd hate to see the old style 6pts down rule return, it was always so unfair on a side that had excelled itself to get a lead then see it wiped away - at least at 10 points ahead that would be less likely, and fits the purpose of 'making scores closer' and giving the losing team a chance, rather than handing a top heavy losing team an easy route to pinch an undeserved win.

CVS stated that the double points rule would be dropped if SKY aren't covering.

No idea if the current rule remains tho.

[Star Fever]

True but the points scored may be worth twice as much.

Yes but if the losing side are 10pts down and get an 8-1, they're still 3pts down and can't try it again until they're 12pts down.

 

Old TS rule however, at 6pts down, a 5-1 puts them just 2pts down, plus an opportunity to use TS again only two heats later if they go 6pts down again!! I've seen many matches in the old days where teams have won (unfairly in my opinion) by doing exactly that where they've contrived to get their best riders on the night in most of the heats through a succession of TS replacements.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Star Fever

[Trees]

Forget all tacticals and only allow changes of gate positions . . .

[StormMarketing]

How about

 

1) If a side is 10 points down they can nominate a "Golden Substitution" where they can replace a rider in the opposite team in one heat i.e. remove no.1 and replace with no.3/5

 

2) If a side is 6 points down they can nominate a "Silver Substitution" where they replace a rider in their own team to try and get back into the meeting

 

can only use Gold/Silver rule once each per meeting - i.e. maximum 2 subs per meeting.

 

It will keep the other team manager on his/her toes

 

only allowed between heats 5-12

[Conkers in Gravy]

The double points is statistically more fair than the old tac sub rule, but I don't like it much - and it looks like we're stuck with it if Sky's deal is sorted out. Some kind of tac sub rule would be more in line with other team sports, replacing an out of form or injured rider with an in-form rider (substitutes in football and both codes of rugby, bowlers and field placings in cricket).

 

To make it more fair, maybe tac subs should be restricted to riders with a lower average than the one they are replacing. That would at least be simple. And six points is too little for the rule to kick in - looking back I can't believe it was so few!

Edited December 9, 2013 by Conkers in Gravy

[The Doctor...]

How about

 

1) If a side is 10 points down they can nominate a "Golden Substitution" where they can replace a rider in the opposite team in one heat i.e. remove no.1 and replace with no.3/5

 

2) If a side is 6 points down they can nominate a "Silver Substitution" where they replace a rider in their own team to try and get back into the meeting

 

can only use Gold/Silver rule once each per meeting - i.e. maximum 2 subs per meeting.

 

It will keep the other team manager on his/her toes

 

only allowed between heats 5-12

 

Hmm..not sure a rider on the opposite team would be too chuffed with another team manager reducing his nightly points money..

 

Suddenly you've got number ones who are only getting 4 rides a night..probably not going to keep them happy for very long.

[StormMarketing]

Maybe to keep things simple just allow 3 substitutions between riders 2-7 throughout the meeting if your 6 points or more down, only one tactical ride per rider etc. works in other sports

 

just thought how good it would be to be able to play with the oppositions side, or instead of maybe removing an opponents rider, maybe a "tactical switch" where they can swap riders rides lol

[ouch]

Maybe have the riders carry coloured water during the race and then empty whatever doesn't get spilt into a large container on the centre green. The team with the most water get an extra 4.5 points.

[Woz01]

Why not use the old tactical rule but a team can only use it when 10 points behind? Watching the likes of Ward and Iversen ride a extra heat would give more value for money for fans wouldn't it?

[mikebv]

Maybe have the riders carry coloured water during the race and then empty whatever doesn't get spilt into a large container on the centre green. The team with the most water get an extra 4.5 points.

.....but they have to wear a hessian sack hood over their helmets so they are blindfolded....

 

each rider is represented by four buxom serving wenches dressed as milk maids, who carry the water in two pails attached to a wooden pole balanced across their respective shoulders and riders have to take these pails from them to the centre green container..

 

as blindfolded riders are an obvious health and safety risk, each of their four buxom assistants stands at the start and finish of each straight and shouts "left!, left!, left!" as their rider goes past,,,

 

now that is a £20 sport!!!

 

It'll pack 'em in I tell yer, pack 'em in.....

[T.N.T.]

In 2012 they tried the TACTICAL RUN OFF in the KO Cup matches which in some cases was ok, but in some it was pointless as any team that as losing nominated a rider to take on Darcy Ward or Freddie Lindgren etc

 

 

At the time I made the suggestion to Pete Adams that maybe a better idea would have been for the losing team to nominate a rider to face the opposing teams equivalent rider. ..... So Wolves could in effect nominate Jacob Thorssell (#5) to take on Kyle Howarth (#5) ..... or Joe Jacobs (#7) to take on James Sarjeant (#7)

 

 

This may not be great but at least it provides possibly two extra races and the losing team gets to use the inform rider when they want and it doesn't rely on top riders making up the defecit.