Stoke Potters 2014

[teddy2706]

I tend to disregard the subjective vitriol poured out by Iannewsman as they are clearly those of someone with an axe to grind who has no intention of being unbiased.

 

Having said that, speaking to the lads I know at Stoke they all say that if the present promotion left there would be a lot of people who would return, regardless of the level at which the club operated. I am not sure what Dave Tatum has done but according to them (and we are talking about passionate Potters supporters) he's alienated a considerable number of people.

 

I don't go to Stoke much. The reason for that was put very well by a good friend of mine : 'Always some problem, always some lame excuse'.

 

In the past few seasons, I have seen (or heard about) lights going out during the meeting, tea bars running out of food and drink and intervals being held two heats after a long sun break. I was there in 2011 against Dudley when spectators sat around for at least 2 hours waiting for an ambulance to turn up - official word was it was stuck in traffic, hearsay was it hadn't been arranged.

 

I have seen 200 matches in the last three seasons and the worst track I have seen in that time was for the NL 4's in 2012 at Loomer Road. Having consulted a few people (riders, managers, track curators) before, during and after the meeting (because I completely unqualified to judge)while there was an acceptance that there had been bad weather there was a unanimous opinion that it was totally down to the Stoke promotion. On the rare occasions I have been subsequently, the preparation still hasn't been to the standard that paying fans should be entitled to expect.

 

Then we have the fact that they were unable to complete a home racing programme of around 15 matches between March and October last season.

 

Adding all that lot together, whichever way you look at it it isn't good at all.

 

The sadness of it is there's no reason that with bit more effort, attention to detail and customer care Stoke would be an excellent place to watch speedway.

I will not criticise Malcolm Vasey unless it is to his face. But, both he and the Tattums would be well advised to pay heed to HT's comments here. HT watches more speedway in a season than anyone else I know and travels thousands of miles to do so. His opinion is valid, valuable and should be ignored at a promoters peril.

[Swift Saint]

Having studied the stupid ignorant vitriol on here and the rehash of previous misinformation by Halifax Tiger I shall go back to my shell like most promoters and say nothing about anything.

 

But for the benefit of Big Lad who is totally ignorant and expresses that every time he writes I would remind him that we Stoke topped the National League in 2011 by seven points reached the Cup Final and were hampered by injuries in the subsequent matches. We also reached the Paly Offs in 2012. Last season we were poor and could not sign riders until it was too late.

 

You have a lost a further source of information because I have better things to do than read these expressions of ignorance.

 

Get on with it.

 

Malcolm Vasey

[montie]

Having studied the stupid ignorant vitriol on here and the rehash of previous misinformation by Halifax Tiger I shall go back to my shell like most promoters and say nothing about anything.

 

But for the benefit of Big Lad who is totally ignorant and expresses that every time he writes I would remind him that we Stoke topped the National League in 2011 by seven points reached the Cup Final and were hampered by injuries in the subsequent matches. We also reached the Paly Offs in 2012. Last season we were poor and could not sign riders until it was too late.

 

You have a lost a further source of information because I have better things to do than read these expressions of ignorance.

 

Get on with it.

 

Malcolm Vasey

Before you go Malc do you have any info on the new Dawn?

[big lad]

Still will not face facts. Malcolm. That why most of the supporters that used to go when we were in the PL dont go anymore, but there again we are all wrong and you are right? Thats why you finished last season as you did.

[semion]

To fair to Malcolm He is appearing to disassociate himself from the Operating/ownership side of Stoke Speedway. He is hired in to manage the team, the same way that someone like Ole Gunnar Solskjaer was brought in by Vincent Tang at Cardiff, for example.

[Halifaxtiger]

Having studied the stupid ignorant vitriol on here and the rehash of previous misinformation by Halifax Tiger I shall go back to my shell like most promoters and say nothing about anything.

 

But for the benefit of Big Lad who is totally ignorant and expresses that every time he writes I would remind him that we Stoke topped the National League in 2011 by seven points reached the Cup Final and were hampered by injuries in the subsequent matches. We also reached the Paly Offs in 2012. Last season we were poor and could not sign riders until it was too late.

 

You have a lost a further source of information because I have better things to do than read these expressions of ignorance.

 

Get on with it.

 

Malcolm Vasey

 

I expected something a bit better from you, Malcolm, because that's a standard BSPA response - get a bit of criticism and just abuse those who are critical and write them off as ignorant keyboard commandos.

 

There are those on here whose comments are based upon the axes they wish to grind and I'd agree they can be disregard totally.

 

However, my view is honest, objective, fair and considered (they always are). It is based upon what I have seen, heard and been told by sources that I trust. Believe it or not, it is also in the best interests of Stoke Speedway, because it tells you how things can be improved and how I might attend more than I do now. Lets face it, I might be anything but alone.

 

As far as I am concerned, there is no misinformation or falsity there at all. I'd never deny that I might be ignorant, but if its the case that I don't know about something how can I take that into account ?

 

In the close season a friend of mine and I were given the opportunity to talk face to face with a current promoter of a PL club, one that had its share of troubles last season. His willingness to involve in dialogue with individual fans without any prejudice or spite, to answer questions and explain his position not only answered virtually every criticism that I and my friend had but turned him into someone for whom I have the greatest respect (we spoke on the phone only this morning).

 

You have to ask yourself this question. What is in the best interests of your club - to engage and talk with potential fans (at least those you can engage and talk with, because clearly there are some you can't and won't accept anything you say) or ignore and abuse them ?

Edited February 28, 2014 by Halifaxtiger

[Stokielee]

It is possible to be a Promoter is speedway or a Club Chairman without being part of the operating or owning company. It is quite common in fact.

 

 

Malcolm Vasey

You stated you were the team manager. In fact you are also co-promoter; whether you have a financial interest in it is largely irrelevant to the point. As co-promoter you must take some responsibility for what happens at Stoke.

The fact of the matter is speedway fans around Stoke are far from happy with the goings-on in recent years. Perhaps you should put some effort into improving those relations. If it wasn't for the Stock Cars, Stoke Speedway would've disappeared by now! A very sad story.

[Halifaxtiger]

You stated you were the team manager. In fact you are also co-promoter; whether you have a financial interest in it is largely irrelevant to the point. As co-promoter you must take some responsibility for what happens at Stoke.

The fact of the matter is speedway fans around Stoke are far from happy with the goings-on in recent years. Perhaps you should put some effort into improving those relations. If it wasn't for the Stock Cars, Stoke Speedway would've disappeared by now! A very sad story.

 

I have to say what I have been told is that those who are deliberately staying away have an issue with Dave Tattum only, not Malcolm Vasey. Even if things improved considerably, they'd still stay away if Tattum remained in charge.

[Stokielee]

I have to say what I have been told is that those who are deliberately staying away have an issue with Dave Tattum only, not Malcolm Vasey. Even if things improved considerably, they'd still stay away if Tattum remained in charge.

I think you would find that DT isn't the only one people have issues with. However, from what I've seen, Vasey although possibly not to blame for much of the bad stuff at Stoke, always seems to take the "Customer is always wrong" approach to any criticism. He never seems to help the situation or have any interest in improving the lot of disenchanted Stoke fans. You have to question why that is?

 

For what it's worth I'd see it this way:

Tattum in NL = least fans

New owner in NL = more fans

Tattum PL = more fans still

New owner in PL = most fans

 

Although a good few people would probably say the middle two should be swapped.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Stokielee

[vog]

Unfortunately, we could argue until we are blue in the face, nothing will change.

 

The former Mrs Tattum was asked how much she would want for her half of the club, and laughed at the notion.

Mr Tattum was asked what he thought the club was worth and he valued it in 6 figures.

 

The club is worth next to nothing. Riding assets are limited in value, you have a few tractors, potentially the lease, and negligible stock at the bar. You also have the promoters licence, but that could be replaced. In reality, to put a value of £50k on the club is over-valuing it.

 

As a business, it is run horrendously badly. The customer service is non-existent, and the product on track, while enjoyable at times, is inconsistent, partly due to inconsistent track prep.

 

Before the drop to the NL, I said that the owners would have to change their ways, or they would see the death of Stoke speedway. At that point, I felt they still had a chance to salvage the club, even if they were determined to stay in charge. It required an investment of time, because it needed them to make the fans feel wanted. Stoke has an incredibly loyal fan base, but they want to feel like the promotion actually respects them. This never happened. There are countless stories of the promotion deciding that certain fans had wronged them, and going after them. There have been 2 Stoke websites shut down while the club had no official outlet, 2 different track announcers being forced out of their role for whatever reason, and countless fans being made to feel like they should pay their money each week and have no opinion. That just isn't going to happen. Now, it has unfortunately gotten to a point where I can't see the viability of Stoke Speedway as a long term business without the Tattums leaving. The crowds are at an all time low, and the outside view of Stoke is at an all time low. This season we have lost the NL 4's (Probably due to the terrible job we did running it for the previous 2 seasons) and I firmly believe that without the stock cars, Stoke Speedway would be virtually insolvent, and there is no way that it could be run as a going concern.

 

Stoke fans often don't want much. Having never won a 7 man trophy, we can't be accused of being glory hunters, turning up when the going is good. They just want to feel valued as a customer. The Tattums (And I shall include Mr Crabtree in this as well) have never made the fans feel like they are wanted. It feels as though we are an inconvenience, and that if they could, they would just put a team out for their own benefit without having to have fans there.

 

To that end, I'm fed up. I probably should have stopped going after Mr Tattum decided to threaten me after a meeting in the bar. I probably should have stopped going when meetings were taking 3 hours to complete. I probably could have stopped going after it took 6 hours to run a meeting against Workington. I could have stopped going after waiting 3 hours to start the meeting against Dudley, with the bar running out of cold drinks. In reality, I've been given countless opportunities to give up, and I shouldn't be able to name that many. Malcolm, I've spoken to you many times, and I respect you as a team manager, and I know the work you put in to put together a team that you believe will do well. While you don't always help yourself with your passion, and while I don't always agree with your tactics, I appreciate that you want to win just as much as any fan. I just fear that the constant damage done by the promotion team has caused Stoke to no longer be viable in the long term. It pains me to say that, because some of my fondest memories growing up have been watching the riders wearing the 5 stars, and that isn't just in the PL. I'm just fed up of being taken for a ride, by promoters who in my opinion, don't have the best interests of the club at heart. Whatever good intentions they started out with, I can't help but feel they have gone by the wayside.

 

I'll end this long post with this. 2 years ago, I missed one meeting all season, our first season in the NL. This season, I'm not even sure I want to turn up every week, to pay my hard earned money to two spiteful human beings. I'm fed up of the promises of a new dawn, and the press releases stating we have turned a corner. I'm fed up of the way the club is run. It's jobs for the boys, and it's appalling. I know that Dave or Caroline Tattum don't read this, but if someone does want to pass a message on to them, it's this. Put the club on the market at a reasonable value, and leave. Please stop destroying the club that I love.

[big lad]

Nice one Vog, we dont always see eye to eye on things , but that is a cracking post.

Move over Malcolm and let someone with a love of the club take over. They dont have to do much anything is better than bottom.

As for all the success you quoted Malcolm, in all your time at Stoke you still have not won a team trophy, and that is what counts, all you as manager have done is take us down to the NL and bottom of that

[spin king]

Unfortunately, we could argue until we are blue in the face, nothing will change.

 

The former Mrs Tattum was asked how much she would want for her half of the club, and laughed at the notion.

Mr Tattum was asked what he thought the club was worth and he valued it in 6 figures.

 

The club is worth next to nothing. Riding assets are limited in value, you have a few tractors, potentially the lease, and negligible stock at the bar. You also have the promoters licence, but that could be replaced. In reality, to put a value of £50k on the club is over-valuing it.

 

As a business, it is run horrendously badly. The customer service is non-existent, and the product on track, while enjoyable at times, is inconsistent, partly due to inconsistent track prep.

 

Before the drop to the NL, I said that the owners would have to change their ways, or they would see the death of Stoke speedway. At that point, I felt they still had a chance to salvage the club, even if they were determined to stay in charge. It required an investment of time, because it needed them to make the fans feel wanted. Stoke has an incredibly loyal fan base, but they want to feel like the promotion actually respects them. This never happened. There are countless stories of the promotion deciding that certain fans had wronged them, and going after them. There have been 2 Stoke websites shut down while the club had no official outlet, 2 different track announcers being forced out of their role for whatever reason, and countless fans being made to feel like they should pay their money each week and have no opinion. That just isn't going to happen. Now, it has unfortunately gotten to a point where I can't see the viability of Stoke Speedway as a long term business without the Tattums leaving. The crowds are at an all time low, and the outside view of Stoke is at an all time low. This season we have lost the NL 4's (Probably due to the terrible job we did running it for the previous 2 seasons) and I firmly believe that without the stock cars, Stoke Speedway would be virtually insolvent, and there is no way that it could be run as a going concern.

 

Stoke fans often don't want much. Having never won a 7 man trophy, we can't be accused of being glory hunters, turning up when the going is good. They just want to feel valued as a customer. The Tattums (And I shall include Mr Crabtree in this as well) have never made the fans feel like they are wanted. It feels as though we are an inconvenience, and that if they could, they would just put a team out for their own benefit without having to have fans there.

 

To that end, I'm fed up. I probably should have stopped going after Mr Tattum decided to threaten me after a meeting in the bar. I probably should have stopped going when meetings were taking 3 hours to complete. I probably could have stopped going after it took 6 hours to run a meeting against Workington. I could have stopped going after waiting 3 hours to start the meeting against Dudley, with the bar running out of cold drinks. In reality, I've been given countless opportunities to give up, and I shouldn't be able to name that many. Malcolm, I've spoken to you many times, and I respect you as a team manager, and I know the work you put in to put together a team that you believe will do well. While you don't always help yourself with your passion, and while I don't always agree with your tactics, I appreciate that you want to win just as much as any fan. I just fear that the constant damage done by the promotion team has caused Stoke to no longer be viable in the long term. It pains me to say that, because some of my fondest memories growing up have been watching the riders wearing the 5 stars, and that isn't just in the PL. I'm just fed up of being taken for a ride, by promoters who in my opinion, don't have the best interests of the club at heart. Whatever good intentions they started out with, I can't help but feel they have gone by the wayside.

 

I'll end this long post with this. 2 years ago, I missed one meeting all season, our first season in the NL. This season, I'm not even sure I want to turn up every week, to pay my hard earned money to two spiteful human beings. I'm fed up of the promises of a new dawn, and the press releases stating we have turned a corner. I'm fed up of the way the club is run. It's jobs for the boys, and it's appalling. I know that Dave or Caroline Tattum don't read this, but if someone does want to pass a message on to them, it's this. Put the club on the market at a reasonable value, and leave. Please stop destroying the club that I love.

 

Possibly one of the saddest post I ever regarding speedway.

 

Anyone who knows Vog will tell you he is the most laid back guy you could ever wish to meet, for him to come out and state he is feeling this way should be a wake up call for the Promotion.

[iannewsman]

Cracking post Vog.

[Halifaxtiger]

 

Possibly one of the saddest post I ever regarding speedway.

 

Anyone who knows Vog will tell you he is the most laid back guy you could ever wish to meet, for him to come out and state he is feeling this way should be a wake up call for the Promotion.

 

Sad, yes, but its one of the best I have ever read on this forum. Its the work of a passionate Stoke fan who despairs at the running of his team and wants things to change, and I suspect that he reflects the view of a lot of people at the club.

 

I genuinely hope that those in charge at Stoke read it and take heed.

 

I also hope that Vog changes his mind and goes along and, more importantly, has reason to do so.

 

Finally, I hope that I will have the pleasure of his company this season, preferably when we are both at Loomer Road.

 

[roguetrader]

Having studied the stupid ignorant vitriol on here and the rehash of previous misinformation by Halifax Tiger I shall go back to my shell like most promoters and say nothing about anything.

 

But for the benefit of Big Lad who is totally ignorant and expresses that every time he writes I would remind him that we Stoke topped the National League in 2011 by seven points reached the Cup Final and were hampered by injuries in the subsequent matches. We also reached the Paly Offs in 2012. Last season we were poor and could not sign riders until it was too late.

 

You have a lost a further source of information because I have better things to do than read these expressions of ignorance.

 

Get on with it.

 

Malcolm Vasey

 

Very sad that you have lowered yourself to that of the Stoke promotions level. Halifax Tiger is one of the most respected members of this forum and in my opinion always offers a sensible balanced view.

 

Sadly since joining Stoke your credibility has diminished and your current ill informed postings will not be missed.

[vog]

 

Sad, yes, but its one of the best I have ever read on this forum. Its the work of a passionate Stoke fan who despairs at the running of his team and wants things to change, and I suspect that he reflects the view of a lot of people at the club.

 

I genuinely hope that those in charge at Stoke read it and take heed.

 

I also hope that Vog changes his mind and goes along and, more importantly, has reason to do so.

 

Finally, I hope that I will have the pleasure of his company this season, preferably when we are both at Loomer Road.

 

 

I'm sure I will catch up with you at a few tracks up and down the country! Given that I live in Birmingham now, I think I will be going to Coventry more (I have most Fridays off, so it's not a bad trip) or even a monthly pilgrimage up to Sheffield to catch up with old friends. It's a sad state of affairs when they are more preferable options.

[SCSA]

Interesting readings but truthful ones all the same, Mr Vasey as i have mentioned before is a flunky, he has stooped to the snake level of those who operate the sorry charade that is Stoke speedway, he likes to berate people on here who aren't in tune with his drum, sadly for him judging by the postings his drum is outnumbered.

Vog sums things up perfectly as does big lad when he said same old same old, unfortunately for speedway fans, Tattum makes enough out of his position of being stadium manager to warrant as not to giving a monkeys as to what fans think hence to where the club is now.

Everything that comes out as a statement from down there is all hot air and wind and always will be whilst they are around.

[greyhoundp]

I usually like and agree with what most of what Proud Potter writes on here, however his comments with regards HT ie "rehash of previous misinformation" I find that to be treating a respected supporter, and sponsor of Speedway and riders, with arrogance. Malcolm indeed seems to be falling into the ways of the Tatums and others on the promotion, who believe supporters need to be treated like dog dirt on your shoe. In this day and age every supporter needs to be listened to, not belittled as Malcolm seems to be doing these days if they dont agree with him.

I fully agree with Vog,s sentiments, i said on another thread it needs the Tatums to walk away from Stoke Speedway, maybe just sell the Speedway side of things, and retain the profitable Stock car aspect. That would be best for everyone concerned, then and only then would many of the old supporters return.

[Neil H]

As you know Vog, many of us have had similar experiences with certain members of the promotion (they threatened to call the police if I didn't leave the bar area on a press/practice once because of unsubstantiated 'whispers' about what I had said on here had got back and I'd not posted at all). They have driven away many people who would have freely given their time to help and 'killed' a once thriving supporters club. They are quite a few that I know who are hoping that the club outlasts the current promotion and they do heed you last line before it's too late.

As always, I hope that all riders have a good season in staying fit and healthy.

[teddy2706]

From the outset, I wish it to be known that I like and respect Malcolm Vasey, I don't agree with all of his views, or all of his decisions, but I absolutely respect his right to voice his opinion and I know he offers the same courtesy to me.

Personally, I think he paid Halifax Tiger a grave disservice with his comments, but, he is entitled to his opinion.

 

Malcolm commanded Stoke fans respect on taking the managers reins.

That respect has eroded because he is tarred with the same brush as the promotion but not always fairly so.

But, lie down with dogs Malcolm and you risk getting fleas, in this particular case, in your ear!

 

Now, Malcolm is loyal to the club that employs him, that is how it should be, but it does not mean that the promotion are always right.

If they were always right, it would be standing room only at Loomer rd. and it plainly is not.

Many Stoke fans have helped the club in many ways, yet despite that, they are treated with complete and utter contempt and disdain by the Tattums and Mr. Crabtree.

Vog has been a lifelong fan of Stoke speedway, was loyal, faithful and even as an impoverished student travelled everywhere to watch them at every opportunity.

He wanted success for the club, but put up with mediocrity because he was a true and loyal fan.

What he couldn't accept was to be treated as an object, a chattel, an asset, a cash cow, but worst of all, a whipping boy for all of the clubs ineptitude, meanness and rudeness.

To demonstrate what I mean, here is an exchange from the bar counter.

Me: "Caroline, could I have a brandy please"? (My friends wife was cold).

Caroline Tattum: "No"

She then turned her back and walked away.

Me: "Caroline, why can't I have a brandy"?

Caroline (over her shoulder, still walking away): "Because we don't have any"!

 

Who needs this sort of treatment?