British Speedway Promoters Meeting

[Humphrey Appleby]

So, for example, failing to have any kind of reception or presentation for the journalists and photographers of the local press at a P&P Day would probably be an error..

In all honesty, who really turns up for P&P day beyond the local press, and given how much they've cut back these days, they probably rely on someone from the promotion to do the write-up anyway. All the team information could be presented in an interactive way online, and it would potentially reach a much wider audience.

 

And in the context of NL programmes, funny you should use the term 'dinosaur', AJ, because if you look at third tier programmes they are divided into two distinct eras: pre-2002 and post 2002 and it was the Wimbledon Dons programme which I put together and wrote for from 2002 to '05 which marked that change; that upped the stakes in terms of how professional in look and in content a third tier prog should be. This has carried on with the Kent Kings programme - just one element (along with, yes of course, the website) that embelished such a successful first year.

How are you with heat formats...?

Edited December 2, 2013 by Humphrey Appleby

[500cc]

As for the comment about the "program" (sic) - I assume Nikko doesn't mean that; that in fact he means the programme..?

Well, he's entitled to his opinion but I'd respectfully suggest that the Kent Kings programme can hold its head up high alongside the best in any of the sport's divisions. All new and original material every issue (no 'cut and paste' profiles common in the past and still prevalent in some clubs' meeting progs).

And in the context of NL programmes, funny you should use the term 'dinosaur', AJ, because if you look at third tier programmes they are divided into two distinct eras: pre-2002 and post 2002 and it was the Wimbledon Dons programme which I put together and wrote for from 2002 to '05 which marked that change; that upped the stakes in terms of how professional in look and in content a third tier prog should be. This has carried on with the Kent Kings programme - just one element (along with, yes of course, the website) that embelished such a successful first year.

 

 

 

Have to add that the Wimbledon programme Parsloes produced was first class. Was always very very impressed by the level of detail.

 

It's a shame that so much conflict exists at Kent. I think there is an awful lot wrong with British speedway, yet if I could choose the best bits of Parsloes, Nikko and Len Silver I wouldn't hesitate to select them to a 'dream team' for a speedway club. They all offer a lot of strengths, and were the chemistry there and the ability to leverage off each others strengths it could be very successful. In fact I'd suggest that it did start that way at Kent, but the cracks were obviously there before it became public.

[Humphrey Appleby]

 

In fact I'd suggest that it did start that way at Kent, but the cracks were obviously there before it became public.

 

And that unfortunately is why speedway dooms itself...

[StevePark]

In all honesty, who really turns up for P&P day beyond the local press, and given how much they've cut back these days, they probably rely on someone from the promotion to do the write-up anyway. All the team information could be presented in an interactive way online, and it would potentially reach a much wider audience.

 

How are you with heat formats...?

 

At Newcastle the local BBC usually turn up (either Jeff Brown or, as last season, Dawn Thewlis) and I think TyneTees also were there last season Unless a big local sports story breaks and that happens GRTMedia supply their, as usual, excellent footage.

 

A few years back, Newcastle tried a 'donation only' type meeting (if I remember crrectly there was a minimum donation of a £1 or so, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong), with wheelie competitions, races, gating etc., and, by all accounts, the place was packed. The following week, when full admission applied, the crowd was back to near normal.

[Tsunami]

 

At Newcastle the local BBC usually turn up (either Jeff Brown or, as last season, Dawn Thewlis) and I think TyneTees also were there last season Unless a big local sports story breaks and that happens GRTMedia supply their, as usual, excellent footage.

 

A few years back, Newcastle tried a 'donation only' type meeting (if I remember crrectly there was a minimum donation of a £1 or so, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong), with wheelie competitions, races, gating etc., and, by all accounts, the place was packed. The following week, when full admission applied, the crowd was back to near normal.

As you know, Jeff Brown is a speedway supporter whose links date back to Sunderland so he knows George well and can usually be 'set up' like he did with Stuey Swales in about 2000, remember.

 

The special meeting. Was that one of the first meeting of 2008(80th Anniversary year), which was like an introduction to Speedway. Everyone brought friends as it was't a serious racing affair, but was meant to be actual physical advert for new punters. Really was a great concept. As you say, next week was back to the usuals, but I suppose you have to keep trying.

[StevePark]

As you know, Jeff Brown is a speedway supporter whose links date back to Sunderland so he knows George well and can usually be 'set up' like he did with Stuey Swales in about 2000, remember.

 

The special meeting. Was that one of the first meeting of 2008(80th Anniversary year), which was like an introduction to Speedway. Everyone brought friends as it was't a serious racing affair, but was meant to be actual physical advert for new punters. Really was a great concept. As you say, next week was back to the usuals, but I suppose you have to keep trying.

 

I missed the meeting as I think it clashed with the Ozchem meeting or something similar at Sheffield as I was helping GRT at the time, so I think it was a bit later than 2008 but could be wrong. The 80th Anniversary year was 2009 was it not? 1929-2009, so it may have been then. http://www.newcastlespeedwayhistory.co.uk/80th%20Anniversary.htm

Edited December 4, 2013 by The Abbott

[Tsunami]

 

I missed the meeting as I think it clashed with the Ozchem meeting or something similar at Sheffield as I was helping GRT at the time, so I think it was a bit later than 2008 but could be wrong. The 80th Anniversary year was 2009 was it not? 1929-2009, so it may have been then. http://www.newcastlespeedwayhistory.co.uk/80th%20Anniversary.htm

Of course the year was 2009. Think the introduction meeting might have been earlier in the season and then the official Anniversary meeting held in May.

[waiheke1]

Parsloes 1928 nearly, on 23 Nov 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Is there anymore more stupid a thing than this so-called 'history' site on proboards completely ignoring the third tier racing record of riders?

Parsloes 1928 nearly, on 23 Nov 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Hmm, yes but the point is that there is this website purporting to be a definitive record of Speedway riders' records in the British leagues but actually deliberately supresses info. on whole sections of riders' careers... And the reason? The completely ridiculous, bigotted views of one individual who , completely laughably, believes the third division to be 'junior racing'...
Parsloes 1928 nearly, on 28 Nov 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Well we all now know that a database which is meant to be of riders' racing records is completely flawed

Parsloes 1928 nearly, on 01 Dec 2013 - 3:37 PM, said:No volunteers have any problem at all with riders getting paid; we're all happy to contribute to the sport we love.'Contribute' being the operative word.. Not just sniping away continually like certain others!!

 

Incredible!

 

Quote

Parsloes 1928 nearly, on 02 Dec 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

I agree but how on earth does having a brilliant website generate such publicity..?!
Unless you look at the website you'd know nothing about it - and if you've never heard of the track or even, dare I say it, the sport, why on earth would you look at the website?
Parsloes 1928 nearly, on 03 Dec 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

far more people stumble on an article in their local paper than are likely to mysteriously 'surf' their way onto a website of a sport they've never heard of.

 

and this shows how little you understand social media. the whole point is that you can target your marketing for a very low cost, you don't need to rely on people "stumbling" onto your website. how many people do you think are on Facebook compared to how many read the local paper?

 

 

CMV06, on 03 Dec 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I've always thought that a good way of getting younger people in would be to showcase a band from a local university/college. Give their followers (or anyone with a student card) a discount on tickets and have a different band every week or so. This could build a good relationship with the local Uni/College and some of the music followers might actually get the speedway bug.

Would also dish out free tickets to local primary/secondary schools every couple of months and it might get a few regulars that way too.

 

This. I actually suggested pretty much the same thing on a different thread a couple of months back. Students for a tenner, good music, speedway, some cheap pints in the bar, make it a good students night out, and if you have a heap of students coming, potentially theya re going to attract other youthful folk along.

 

I think a marketing role, specialising in online media, is a decent idea. The most cost efficient way would surely be to have one person to do it for all the clubs, and a consolidated BSPA website. Offer a 9 month contract (March-October) with a pro rata 50k salary, should be able to attract someone of a decent standard? Divide by ten top tier teams, that’s 3.75k a team per season. Assuming 20 home meetings, that’s under 200 quid a meeting, so an extra 12 (roughly needed) on the gate needed each home meeting . Surely a marketing/IT person worth their salt should be able to do that.. Get the PL and NL on board as well, and you probably only need an extra 5 on the gate each week for each team.

 

But... at the same time clubs need to improve the presentation at the meeting, otherwise each time you’re going to have to be finding fifteen new people each and every meeting, which is a lot tougher than if you can retain even a couple of the nebies each week – give it a couple of months and you’ve got your 15 extra regulars.

 

I’m a cricket purist, in that I would much rather watch a test than a 20/20 game (if time, with a young family, was not an issue)BUT... 20/20 is exactly the kind of model speedway should look at, and the benefit it has is that it doesn’t need to alienate purists by replicating it, because it already has a format which should allow a meeting to be run in an hour and a half. People on here whinge about “only 15 m minutes of racing” being poor value, but what speedway needs to be is a night out with an hour and a half of entertainment (15-20 minutes of which is the racing itself), with the option of staying on in the bar afterwards if people so desire. People’s time, as well as money, is increasingly valuable, so make sure the meeting is run slickly, spend a bit of money on a decent sound system, a bit of entertainment (local band/dj for between heats), a decent MC, spruce the place up a bit (if you were renting a house long term that was run down, you’d probably invest in a bit of paint or make some effort to make things look nice), have reasonably priced and decent food and drinks so people are happy to buy it from you.

 

Like any industry, if profits are low you can improve things short term by cutting costs. However, you reach a point when cutting more costs will only decrease the quality. Eventually you’re going to need to be able to grow revenue, which you can do by increasing prices or by increasing sales volume. You might be able to add a quid or two on the price, and people will still attedd, as what is left now is really the “hard core” fans. But if you want to have a really sustainable business, then you’re going to need to grow crowds beyond what they are at present, and that may means spending more money not less (at least initially), and even decrease pricing at the same time .

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

You've lost me here..!

The postings you've copied are relating to a 'history' site which tells an inaccurate history. Not a great example of the internet as a resource is it - as a journalist wanting to check out the career of our World Champ, Tai Woffinden will now find in so doing on that site, that the lad born in Scunthorpe NEVER rode for his home town club!

 

Also explain to me how it is inaccurate to say,

"far more people stumble on an article in their local paper than are likely to mysteriously 'surf' their way onto a website of a sport they've never heard of."

That is an absolute fact surely..?!

[waiheke1]

Parsloes - you stated:

Parsloes 1928 nearly, on 01 Dec 2013 - 3:37 PM, said: we're all happy to contribute to the sport we love.'Contribute' being the operative word.. Not just sniping away continually like certain others!!

 

Surely you can see the irony when you've labelled as stupid and bigotted volunteers who contribute" for free their time to produce a speedway website because it doesn't have all the stats you want. Maybe your name's Alannis, and you genuinely can't...

 

Also explain to me how it is inaccurate to say,
"far more people stumble on an article in their local paper than are likely to mysteriously 'surf' their way onto a website of a sport they've never heard of."
That is an absolute fact surely..?!

 

I'm not arguing with you on that point. But... the point of social media that you don't seem to grasp is that you are not reliant on them surfing to your website. You target certain demographics with facebook ads, tweets etc - you find them, rather than relying on them to find you. As of 2012, the UK had 30 million facebook users and 10million twitter users. Can you see any possible way in which using those mediums may be more effective than adverts/articles in the local paper?

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Surely you can see the irony when you've labelled as stupid and bigotted volunteers who contribute" for free their time to produce a speedway website because it doesn't have all the stats you want. Maybe your name's Alannis, and you genuinely can't...

You utterly miss the point! It's not about stats I "want", it's about deliberately leaving out info. out.

In the context of this sub-theme about the value of the Internet, one disadvantage of the Internet can be when sites contain completely inaccurate or misleading info. - I was (on that other thread...) simply pointing that out.

 

------------

IF Speedway was back in London which do you think would be more valuable, a club website (which of course they'd be and would be very useful etc.) or if the London Evening Standard ran previews of every meeting and then reports of those meetings with a photo on the sports' pages?

Edited December 5, 2013 by Parsloes 1928 nearly

[SteveLyric2]

------------

IF Speedway was back in London which do you think would be more valuable, a club website (which of course they'd be and would be very useful etc.) or if the London Evening Standard ran previews of every meeting and then reports of those meetings with a photo on the sports' pages?

Yes but which would be the most likely??

 

A properly designed and run website with maximum interaction and accompanying facebook, Twitter etc etc feeds, could potentially reach millions!!

[The White Knight]

You utterly miss the point! It's not about stats I "want", it's about deliberately leaving out info. out.

In the context of this sub-theme about the value of the Internet, one disadvantage of the Internet can be when sites contain completely inaccurate or misleading info. - I was (on that other thread...) simply pointing that out.

 

------------

IF Speedway was back in London which do you think would be more valuable, a club website (which of course they'd be and would be very useful etc.) or if the London Evening Standard ran previews of every meeting and then reports of those meetings with a photo on the sports' pages?

 

 

I'm getting fed up with this Parsloes. I hear what you are saying - BUT - the good folk running the Website do so at their OWN expense and give of their time to keep the Site up to date on the issues in which they are interested. There is your answer Parsloes - they are NOT interested in National League Racing.

 

They have made, what I consider to be a VERY kind offer - if you will do the Stats for the National League - they will be happy to put it on THEIR Site for YOU. They can't do any more than that.

 

YOU need to 'PUT UP - or - SHUT UP'!!! :sad:

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Please note someone else not me, linked the current discussion on this thread to that 'other' one!

But I have to say a strange thing to say that: that they leave out data because they're not interested in it..

So if they weren't 'interested' in Rye House (say...) and left out any reference to that club in their stats that too would be okay would it..?!

People are making this as if it's personal, it's not at all..: it began out of puzzlement as to why someone would set up such an excellent resource but leave out key data; and turned into incredulity that actually this ommission is deliberate..

[The White Knight]

Please note someone else not me, linked the current discussion on this thread to that 'other' one!

But I have to say a strange thing to say that: that they leave out data because they're not interested in it..

So if they weren't 'interested' in Rye House (say...) and left out any reference to that club in their stats that too would be okay would it..?!

People are making this as if it's personal, it's not at all..: it began out of puzzlement as to why someone would set up such an excellent resource but leave out key data; and turned into incredulity that actually this ommission is deliberate..

 

 

But Parsloes - I know that you are very well informed on Speedway matters of ALL sorts.

 

Why don't you take on the task of collating National League details - you have been given the chance to, as you see it, improve the Website considerably. If you devoted your time to doing that rather than criticising the Website, I just think your time would be better spent.

 

You now actually have the offer to put all of your work on the National League on to this Site - why don't you just do it? You have NEVER answered that particular question.

 

Win/Win situation:

 

i) Improves the Website

 

ii) Puts right the very thing that you so obviously CARE about - the National League and it's absence from this Website.

 

I am not being funny here - this is a genuine question. Why don't you give it a go?

[Jonny the spud]

I love lots of people arguing on the internet about how the internet isn't effective.

 

Most people I know look at Facebook pages and twitter to keep up to dare with what's going on.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Yes but which would be the most likely??

 

A properly designed and run website with maximum interaction and accompanying facebook, Twitter etc etc feeds, could potentially reach millions!!

There's no question whatsoever that IF the Evening Standard (in this hypothetical situation of a London track!) did preview and report on matches, that the 'fact' there was a Speedway track operating and a London team would come to the attention of people in a way that the best organised set of websites/social media could never do.

Once people got to hear and wanted to know more, yes, then those things like FB etc. would of course be invaluable but the newspaper would without doubt be the best way to actually get people to know in the first place.

 

I'm in no way against the idea of websites, FB etc. having a huge role in Speedway promotion but it puzzles me how people can think that a club could manage by promoting only through such a means.

'Surfing' is a misnomer because no-one ever just randomly surfs; it's always theme based to a lesser or greater extent.

Whereas open a newspaper and if a story is there it can catch your eye. If it ain't, it doesn't!!

[The White Knight]

There's no question whatsoever that IF the Evening Standard (in this hypothetical situation of a London track!) did preview and report on matches, that the 'fact' there was a Speedway track operating and a London team would come to the attention of people in a way that the best organised set of websites/social media could never do.

Once people got to hear and wanted to know more, yes, then those things like FB etc. would of course be invaluable but the newspaper would without doubt be the best way to actually get people to know in the first place.

 

I'm in no way against the idea of websites, FB etc. having a huge role in Speedway promotion but it puzzles me how people can think that a club could manage by promoting only through such a means.

'Surfing' is a misnomer because no-one ever just randomly surfs; it's always theme based to a lesser or greater extent.

Whereas open a newspaper and if a story is there it can catch your eye. If it ain't, it doesn't!!

 

 

You DON'T wish to answer my serious question then Parsloes.

 

Oh well................................................. :sad:

[stevehone]

come on Arsoles1928, when will you be collating the NL data for addition to the website? you have been asked more than once now, as it's something you're interested in.

and while you're at it, i hope you go back to the 80s with your 3rd tier info too, covering the Anglia Junior League, or the Junior Leagues North/South/Midlands, as well as the BL2 meetings ....

Edited December 5, 2013 by stevehone

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

The CL/NL is NOT a 'junior league'.. You'll note there ARE junior leagues now - they are NOT the same level as the NL.

Also I think you'll find that the site being mentioned here does include BL Div 2 data.