British Speedway Promoters Meeting

[skthecat]

And look at the rubbishe most track produce as a programme and listen to what most give as "presentation" and you realise that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Do all them people have an issue with the riders getting a wage too?

 

TBH, this is the problem with speedway, rather than paying professional they get fans to give it a go, which make it amateur they then charge the fans top whack for a load of amateur productions.

But, and its a huge but, if these "VOLUNTEERS" were not there.............. then neither would "SPEEDWAY" Having said that, I do know exactly what you mean, the volunteer brigade has over the years risen up the speedway staffing ladder, and bypassed the riders!! So you have A volunteers - paid riders - volunteers sandwich, garnished with a paid promotor/s.

This creates an unstable and unsustainable industry, the next step is .............??

[The Doctor...]

He hasn't made claims of the sort at all.

 

He has spoken sense throughout this thread, whereas you have shown yourself to be completely naive and way out of touch with modern life and how to get something noticed.

 

You've shown that again here in this post. You have the same sort of attitude that business such as Blockbuster, HMV etc had.. ignoring the online world until it was too late and other businesses passed you by.

 

i think he went pretty close with those claims to be fair. I also think that his boasts of offering his services to the bspa in vain in years past probably rings true if he's as young as what i'm discovering. As a punter i would raise my eyebrows if the marketing of british speedway was at the hands of some kid from East Anglia.

 

I'm young enough to know that the online world is the way to whip things up, but i think perhaps Syniwhatshisaface's approach to being a bit of a know all has slightly gone against him here.

 

His speeches and analogies have the whiff of some old age old marketing bibles brought up to the 21st century. And he's also badly paid, so he cant be that good.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Do all them people have an issue with the riders getting a wage too?

Er, no - obviously your reading skills are as poor as your grammar!

No volunteers have any problem at all with riders getting paid; we're all happy to contribute to the sport we love.

'Contribute' being the operative word.. Not just sniping away continually like certain others!!

[Nikko]

Without getting personal, I think there's been some good debate over the last few days and pages.

 

We know some promoters read these threads, maybe on or two will take notice.

 

The thing I will agree with Parsloes on, without Volunteers speedway is in serious trouble however in certain roles I do think professional people with experience in those roles, say in their working lives, is a major benefit, or a must.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Nikko

[Piccolo]

 

Yes the clubs are forced to use APMedia for their web hosting but they are free to design it however they like, so they could implement all these ideas without needing to have an unofficial site.

 

How many times do you "experts" need telling? No-one is forced to use A P Media, club sites are hosted by a dedicated BSPA server which was recommended and is maintained by Bextec Solutions.

[Tom Turner]

I hope that's not your only job because otherwise it's a poor salary for a webmaster, especially in a commercial marketing environment.

 

I am 21 years old and have been working for them since I was 19. They are a small company comprised of less than 10 employees. I am very happy with my salary for a few reasons, I out earn most people my age, my salary increases as I help the company to grow and I did every bit of it off my own back. Most importantly I love my job, I love the people I work with and I love the contribution I am able to make even at such a young age. I have a great amount of job satisfaction which you cannot put a price on. I didn't do so well in school (I was more interested in being a trouble maker than knuckling down) but I soon grew out of that. Since then I have spent pretty much every day of my life teaching myself the world of business and marketing. I have met and learnt from many great people with much more experience than myself and I like to take a little bit of wisdom from everybody I meet.

 

Being my age I have the insight to "fill in the gaps" that the promoters have missed. I know what young people like and I know how to appeal to them on a large scale, this is something promoters just don't know how to get right. You know those parents who try to be "cool" and "down with the kids"? It's that very reason why Facebook has an average employee age of 26.

 

I take no shame in being passionate about the things I love and care for most.

 

I did think the same thing, but he or she seems very passionate about their success in their field, so thought i best not bring it up a the risk of bursting their balloon.

 

I love my job, I love the people I work with, I love the impact I am able to make on an expanding business using the skill sets I learnt and developed all on my own. I have great job satisfaction and the future is bright for me so I have no complaints with the amount I earn. I'm just enjoying my life day by day and the satisfaction of knowing I am building a future for myself.

 

The reason the notion of paying a Webmaster (sic) £300 a week is daft in the context of a Speedway club is because in the huge majority of cases, Club Press Officers & Programme Editors who put in hours of work each week are not paid (I should know, have done both roles in one way or another for many of the past 12 years and got been paid a bean..); not to mention people like announcers and all track & pits staff - all do it voluntarily.

Pay someone £15k a year to, er, update feeds and in many cases simply populate a website with articles supplied by the PRO and I think then you'd have a lot of disgruntled folk who'd also want paying!

Track Photographers are also not paid but, of course, get a goodly income often by being given exclusive rights to sell their photos at the track which 'employs' them...

 

My argument is that you have to spend to money to make money, and if you spend it in the right places then these Press Officers and Programme Editors might not need to go unpaid for much longer?

 

How many times do you "experts" need telling? No-one is forced to use A P Media, club sites are hosted by a dedicated BSPA server which was recommended and is maintained by Bextec Solutions.

 

I was told by a webmaster for an Elite League club that all clubs are contractually obliged to be hosted by AP Media.

I think the bubble has already burst.

They've already gone (in a kind of KKS way) from being a successful businessman with their own highly successful (yet amazingly invisible) P.R. and marketing company, to a teenager working as a webmaster in some non-sports related business.

 

Maybe we were all once young and arrogant and thought we knew it all. One day he/she will grow up and realise that despite his/her love of webmastery, the answer to speedway's problems isn't every club spending a fortune on websites and tweeting.

 

Living within our means, cutting back on the fortunes wasted on airfares and training up sub-standard foreigners, investing in British youngsters, and building a better product, is a start on what will be a long ongoing task.

 

You are making a fool out of yourself. You are just showing everyone that you cannot help but get personal in public debate, that you aren't even reading the posts you are replying to, and that you are grossly misinformed.

 

I am not KKS. I don't even know who he is. I am certainly not from East Anglia. I never claimed to be the owner of a marketing company, I claimed to work for one. Although the business is not sports related, the role is comparable. As I have said repeatedly but you fail to pay any attention before spewing your nonsense, club's do not need to spend a fortune and if they were to spend a "fortune" they would get far more than a few tweets. Since when was being in your 20's a teenager?

 

Some people will be happy to live within the sports means and put up with a lesser product, but a lot of people won't. The actions being taken next season are an attempt to live within the current means but as the quality of product drops further so will the attendances and the "means" will be further reduced.

 

The fact is there will be a drop in attendances next season and there are no measures in place to counter act that. Common sense will tell you that is a recipe for disaster. You don't have to have a 30 year history in marketing to understand the basics of business.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Synikalle

[skthecat]

Er, no - obviously your reading skills are as poor as your grammar!

No volunteers have any problem at all with riders getting paid; we're all happy to contribute to the sport we love.

'Contribute' being the operative word.. Not just sniping away continually like certain others!!

Just to clarify, I was in no way knocking volunteers! I have been one for years!! The last time I received any sort of reward was in 1980/1/2/3/4 when I recieved £1 + programme! (Track volunteer) and that covered most volunteers bus fares!!

[Walshy1974]

 

I am 21 years old and have been working for them since I was 19. They are a small company comprised of less than 10 employees. I am very happy with my salary for a few reasons, I out earn most people my age, my salary increases as I help the company to grow and I did every bit of it off my own back. Most importantly I love my job, I love the people I work with and I love the contribution I am able to make even at such a young age. I have a great amount of job satisfaction which you cannot put a price on. I didn't do so well in school (I was more interested in being a trouble maker than knuckling down) but I soon grew out of that. Since then I have spent pretty much every day of my life teaching myself the world of business and marketing. I have met and learnt from many great people with much more experience than myself and I like to take a little bit of wisdom from everybody I meet.

 

Being my age I have the insight to "fill in the gaps" that the promoters have missed. I know what young people like and I know how to appeal to them on a large scale, this is something promoters just don't know how to get right. You know those parents who try to be "cool" and "down with the kids"?

 

I take no shame in being passionate about the things I love and care for most.

 

I love my job, I love the people I work with, I love the impact I am able to make on an expanding business using the skill sets I learnt and developed all on my own. I have great job satisfaction and the future is bright for me so I have no complaints with the amount I earn. I'm just enjoying my life day by day.

 

My argument is that you have to spend to money to make money, and if you spend it in the right places then these Press Officers and Programme Editors might not need to go unpaid for much longer?

 

I was told by a webmaster for an Elite League club that all clubs are contractually obliged to be hosted by AP Media.

You're almost right spending to make money.. The problem is, every year a someone from a business sits down and does the annual budget. He/She will have seen the profit & loss weekly figures for the past say 6 months and figure what is targeted, what's balanced what's cut etc etc. Those costs and expenditure aren't taken lightly as it benefits the company's and it's people's livelihood at stake.. Same goes for speedway, a Butchers even a bookies. So, if Paddy Power can make loads of adverts it's because there's an awful lot of gamblers around spending their cash. Whereas we know Speedway is supported by a unique few that won't make any Richard Branson's.

 

I like where you're coming from and your enthusiasm but free marketing is the only thing in dwindling business.

[SteveLyric2]

Just to add a small bit of balance to the volunteers vs paid workers in speedway. Not all clubs rely solely on volunteers - I know at least one EL club that at least pays its Programme Co-Ordinator - and possibly others!!

 

Whether its enough of course is another question entirely!!?

 

Also, on the question of 'standardised' websites or homepages - the reason some promoters want a degree of individuality in the design is because they want sufficient space to give prominent exposure to all their sponsors and commercial partners!!

 

As we know, some clubs are much better at attracting sponsors/partners than others, which does favour the idea of individually designed sites, but with some consistency of style and corporate branding as appropriate. I thought that what AP Media was selected to do - create and design - not host!!

Edited December 1, 2013 by Skidder1

[MattK]

You're almost right spending to make money.. The problem is, every year a someone from a business sits down and does the annual budget. He/She will have seen the profit & loss weekly figures for the past say 6 months and figure what is targeted, what's balanced what's cut etc etc. Those costs and expenditure aren't taken lightly as it benefits the company's and it's people's livelihood at stake.. Same goes for speedway, a Butchers even a bookies. So, if Paddy Power can make loads of adverts it's because there's an awful lot of gamblers around spending their cash. Whereas we know Speedway is supported by a unique few that won't make any Richard Branson's.

 

I like where you're coming from and your enthusiasm but free marketing is the only thing in dwindling business.

 

Paddy Power advertise as they are trying to create awareness of their brand in a crowded marketplace. Speedway is a bit different as it needs to be marketed in order to make people aware they it exists and to encourage people to come and see the product, rather than choose one product over another.

 

In that way, marketing should pay for itself. If it doesn't then you're doing it wrong.

 

Web sites and social media in general shouldn't be seen as a cost to clubs, but an opportunity to not only gain new fans but also to directly generate revenue. There are at least half a dozen revenue streams open to clubs via their web sites, which none of them exploit.

[Tom Turner]

 

Paddy Power advertise as they are trying to create awareness of their brand in a crowded marketplace. Speedway is a bit different as it needs to be marketed in order to make people aware they it exists and to encourage people to come and see the product, rather than choose one product over another.

 

In that way, marketing should pay for itself. If it doesn't then you're doing it wrong.

 

Web sites and social media in general shouldn't be seen as a cost to clubs, but an opportunity to not only gain new fans but also to directly generate revenue. There are at least half a dozen revenue streams open to clubs via their web sites, which none of them exploit.

 

Wouldn't an online store be a great start for clubs? An online store is entirely free to set up and can be done on their existing websites. The money generated from selling merchandise online could go some way to starting a low budget marketing campaign next season. The only work the club would have to do is check the orders once a day and pop them in the post. The person buying the merchandise would pay postage so there is no expense to the club.

 

Our track shop has the occasional open day before Christmas but really isn't convinient. I have a lot of speedway fans in the family who I could easily spend £100 or more buying gifts for this Christmas.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Synikalle

[Humphrey Appleby]

I am 21 years old and have been working for them since I was 19. They are a small company comprised of less than 10 employees. I am very happy with my salary for a few reasons, I out earn most people my age, my salary increases as I help the company to grow and I did every bit of it off my own back.

Well I suppose that salary looks reasonable for your age, but I doubt the company can be pulling up many trees marketing wise. If it is, then you're being under-paid regardless of age.

 

To give you an example, I know people who specialise in developing an online presences for 'traditional' organisations and they'd be on more twice that money. In one case where the introduction of an online retail presence tripled turnover, they were paid more than 25K as a bonus alone, and they thought themselves a bit hard done-by with that.

 

I wouldn't disagree that any business that doesn't engage with the Internet is missing out, and quite possibly is ultimately doomed, but it's not a guaranteed route to success. Now that just about everyone is online, you still need to have a decent product otherwise you'll get found out quite quickly and be crucified by the self-same medium.

 

It's a completely different kettle of fish to market a new product or service with little legacy or overheads, and a traditional product with an established (and decaying) infrastructure, ageing customer base, and high overheads in comparison to its turnover. Even more so with a product that relies heavily on part-time and volunteer effort. Unfortunately, speedway cannot control or change all the aspects of its production, and that limits what can be achieved.

 

I'd completely agree that speedway's official online presence is quite poor (although there are some decent fan efforts), and its proprietors still seem to be wedded to controlling the flow of information through anodyne press releases and the printed journal of record. That they've also (apparently) delegated the commercial rights to a company which seems to have done little with them, also says a lot about the type of people involved with running the sport, although I'd accept some are well-meaning in their desire to keep the sport going. Nevertheless, I think even the best marketeers would struggle to promote an under-capitalised sport taking place in dingy rented stadia in often the worst parts of town.

 

The best equivalents I can think of are the rejuvenation of rugby league and cricket, but in the case of the former it was heavily backed by the Murdoch empire who saw it as the cornerstone of their global sporting coverage. In the case of the latter, there was already a lot of interest in the sport with the upper middle-middle classes, so it was more a case of making it accessible. Most cricket grounds were also never unpleasant places to visit, especially from the perspective of corporate sponsors, so they've been able to leverage that by branching out into the hotel and conference businesses as well. This simply couldn't happen with speedway in its current state.

The money generated from selling merchandise online could go some way to starting a low budget marketing campaign next season.

Yes, but what are they going to sell? The likes of rugby tops can be worn as casual wear, but I wouldn't be seen dead wearing a team Wulfsport jacket around town.

 

Speedway unfortunately doesn't lend itself well to wider merchandising, and that's part of its problem

[Kester]

 

Speedway unfortunately doesn't lend itself well to wider merchandising, and that's part of its problem

 

 

At present it doesn't, no. But to look at the success of F1/Moto Gp merchandising shows that there is potential. Problem is the product and the audience have to be right if merchandise is to succeed.

[Rebel1]

your comments are spot on and your opening night crowd is testament to the effort you put in and the execution of your plan..

 

what I do find strange is that this sport is genuinely 'unique' in that it (mostly) takes place in a city or town...

 

just imagine the concept of motorbike riders racing against each other in the middle of manchester? ridiculous thought....

 

well it happens, sometimes weekly!,

 

yet hardly anyone from manchester attends this 'event' as it is so poorly 'sold'...

 

the crowds dropped in your case because those in charge dismissed the notion that marketing mattered and crowds dropped off as the 'hype' and information did...

 

this year clubs in the EL have 18 meetings guaranteed, therefore EVERY match should be treated as a stand alone EVENT and marketed as such...

 

stock cars is successful at Belle Vue people say as it is infrequent and heavily marketed, however the speedway has zero marketing in comparison so maybe that is the reason speedway isnt 'successful'??..

 

I was in city centre manchester on thursday and market st. had several vendors giving out free 'Manchester Evening News's, there must have been 10 thousand copies in different locations and god knows how many people picked a paper up, how much would it cost for someone from BV to be stood along side giving out £10 special tickets?? there must be 20 - 25,000 people walk thru this street each day, approx 150,000 a week, surely 500 of which would use the ticket on a monday night? (even just out of curiosity!)...

 

locally the clubs should be hammering the message home EVERY week, giving out enough flyers, giving out promotional material, giving out free stickers, posters etc etc etc, basically brow beating people EVERY week, into knowing you exist and how they can come and see you, if 500 extra is the 'break even' figure you dont even need the same 500 every week, just get that number of people in!!.

 

(who cares if they dont understand the rules, its four riders screaming round a dirt track in a city centre with no brakes, what's not to like?)....

 

add in a well ran, up to date, professional looking, interactive website which reflects 'your brand' and 500 extra a night must be achievable?

 

EVERY meeting should be a stand alone EVENT, make it 'special', get people curious, hype it up with 'gimmicks', SELL the bloody thing!..

 

and they will come...(?)

I like your sentiments, though I doubt that the close season is the time to be offering cut price entry tickets! The thought of a promoter digging into his pocket(s) to promote via a financial incentive is something that sets the mind-a-thinking.

 

The possible problem all round is that speedway does not really appear to attract too many of the youngsters through the turnstiles. Depending upon circumstances, travelling costs from outlying areas, the day / time of the meetings may be a possible reason.

 

I know when I left school I had to watch the pennies (real ones back then) and make a conscious decision on what, when and where as I also followed other motorcycle events over the weekend.

[The Doctor...]

 

I am 21 years old and have been working for them since I was 19. They are a small company comprised of less than 10 employees. I am very happy with my salary for a few reasons, I out earn most people my age, my salary increases as I help the company to grow and I did every bit of it off my own back. Most importantly I love my job, I love the people I work with and I love the contribution I am able to make even at such a young age. I have a great amount of job satisfaction which you cannot put a price on. I didn't do so well in school (I was more interested in being a trouble maker than knuckling down) but I soon grew out of that. Since then I have spent pretty much every day of my life teaching myself the world of business and marketing. I have met and learnt from many great people with much more experience than myself and I like to take a little bit of wisdom from everybody I meet.

 

Could i ask when was it you actually approached the Bspa offering your services ?

[John Leslie]

 

I am 21 years old and have been working for them since I was 19. They are a small company comprised of less than 10 employees.

 

I just don't understand why the BSPA (A body of people generally very successful in their own everyday businesses) have declined to take marketing advice from an arrogant Walter Mitty-esque young kid with 2 years IT experience, working for a tiny company, who believes it would be economically viable for a Speedway club to pay £300 per week to a full time employee to update a club website and send out some tweets.

 

...nope, it's a mystery

[Walshy1974]

 

Paddy Power advertise as they are trying to create awareness of their brand in a crowded marketplace. Speedway is a bit different as it needs to be marketed in order to make people aware they it exists and to encourage people to come and see the product, rather than choose one product over another.

 

In that way, marketing should pay for itself. If it doesn't then you're doing it wrong.

 

Web sites and social media in general shouldn't be seen as a cost to clubs, but an opportunity to not only gain new fans but also to directly generate revenue. There are at least half a dozen revenue streams open to clubs via their web sites, which none of them exploit.

You seem to know a lot. What half dozen ideas would you suggest if I was to go speak with an owner/promoter?

[The White Knight]

I think the bubble has already burst.

They've already gone (in a kind of KKS way) from being a successful businessman with their own highly successful (yet amazingly invisible) P.R. and marketing company, to a teenager working as a webmaster in some non-sports related business.

 

Maybe we were all once young and arrogant and thought we knew it all. One day he/she will grow up and realise that despite his/her love of webmastery, the answer to speedway's problems isn't every club spending a fortune on websites and tweeting.

 

Living within our means, cutting back on the fortunes wasted on airfares and training up sub-standard foreigners, investing in British youngsters, and building a better product, is a start on what will be a long ongoing task.

 

 

Synikalle has never said that.

 

At least he has come up with some ideas that seem eminently sensible to me.

 

Do YOU have any ideas JL - or do you just enjoy having a go at those who do?

 

I believe that there is a lot in what Synikalle says - and if he is correct - his age doesn't matter.

Edited December 1, 2013 by The White Knight

[John Leslie]

Synikalle has never said that.

Yes he did. But you'll have to read back through dozens of his nonsense posts. Might be tricky since he can't keep to the same ideas and keeps changing his tune

 

 

 

 

The cost of hiring a full time "website man" who does nothing but update facebook, twitter, post pictures and videos online, interact with fans and hold competitions would easily pay for itself. The ideal candidate must be familiar with web design, will be aged 20-30 and have a good understanding of social networking and online marketing. You could pay just £300 a week for a 9-5 "website" man.

 

There you go....found it for you.

Now does any sane person think clubs should "hire a 9-5 website man at £300 per week" to "do nothing but update facebook, twitter, post pictures and videos online, interact with fans and hold competitions"?

 

Edited December 1, 2013 by John Leslie

[The Doctor...]

Yes he did. But you'll have to read back through dozens of his nonsense posts. Might be tricky since he can't keep to the same ideas and keeps changing his tune

 

 

Perhaps a change of username to something less google-able would be wise aswell..what is it with youngsters nowaday putting so much of themselves out on t'internet.? Silly silly silly..

Edited December 1, 2013 by The Doctor...