gaptooth Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Like he says^^^^^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Turner Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) Some interesting posts on here about marketing which I have only just had time to catch up with. While I am not going to come down on one side or the other on the particular posts going on, let me tell you about speedway from my perspective, and that's someone who has been a speedway Commercial Manager for many years, has helped save a club (twice), has helped setup a new club, has been to marketing meetings at BSPA in Rugby and still is asked my advise from promoters and speedway track owners today. Speedway in this country is slowly dying and one of the reasons is that a lot, not all, of the promoters are living in the past. The marketing of speedway hasn't changed for years and it needs to. Kids and young people are the future so the show has to keep the kids interested and don't forget they live in a world where everything has to happen fast and quickly. Speedway as a sport should be made for this. It's fast, it's dangerous that's what the kids want to see. They want excitement, thrills and spills. They want to use social media to keep up to date with what's going on, chat rooms with the riders, pod casts with after meeting interviews. It's all about the event, make it colourful, make it loud (if you can), make it exciting. You go to some meetings and they are run the same way as they were in the 50s, 60s, 70s, but without the crowds. Slow boring meetings with lots of gaps with nothing happening If you look at cricket with 20/20, the Red Bull X Racers events etc it's all about the event. The biggest thing nowadays though is the internet, and speedway is shocking at this. Most websites are, let's be honest, awful and very basic. As above kids want interactive websites, podcasts, and use social media. And now we come back full circle. Most current promoters don't like, want, or understand the internet yet it's their most powerful tool. Here is a real example: Last year I worked tirelessly with a professional web design company and we launched the official Kent Kings website for the club, but at the same time we launched a mobile version for iPhone and Andriod. It was massive, the hits we had were amazing. We setup a FB page, a twitter page, both very well received and popular, and both still very active today. We worked with sponsors on links or access to their sites. It was very successful. The website was sponsored so it cost club nothing. The problem, and here is the issue, is that the promotion didn't use the facilities set up, in fact they stated they didn't like the internet or want the internet, and didn't care what people said on the internet. REALLY, this is your target audience!!! The official Kent Kings site is still there, but only because the web design company are willing to keep it going for free at the moment as a favour to me, and I don't work for the club anymore! You cannot run a successful business in this day and age with that attitude and I believe it's systematic of one of the problems with speedway in this country. It needs to drag itself out of the past if it is to have a future. Spot on. We really need to shout about this until somebody takes notice. It just goes to show that you need not spend very much to see a huge increase in attendances. The cost of hiring a full time "website man" who does nothing but update facebook, twitter, post pictures and videos online, interact with fans and hold competitions would easily pay for itself. It doesn't have to cost a lot, it just has to be modern and sustained. The ideal candidate must be familiar with web design, will be aged 20-30 and have a good understanding of social networking and online marketing. You could pay just £300 a week for a 9-5 "website" man. The measures taken by promoters to further weaken the "elite" league this year were not the way to go and will make any marketing campaign even harder. Edited November 30, 2013 by Synikalle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 your comments are spot on and your opening night crowd is testament to the effort you put in and the execution of your plan.. what I do find strange is that this sport is genuinely 'unique' in that it (mostly) takes place in a city or town... just imagine the concept of motorbike riders racing against each other in the middle of manchester? ridiculous thought.... well it happens, sometimes weekly!, yet hardly anyone from manchester attends this 'event' as it is so poorly 'sold'... the crowds dropped in your case because those in charge dismissed the notion that marketing mattered and crowds dropped off as the 'hype' and information did... this year clubs in the EL have 18 meetings guaranteed, therefore EVERY match should be treated as a stand alone EVENT and marketed as such... stock cars is successful at Belle Vue people say as it is infrequent and heavily marketed, however the speedway has zero marketing in comparison so maybe that is the reason speedway isnt 'successful'??.. I was in city centre manchester on thursday and market st. had several vendors giving out free 'Manchester Evening News's, there must have been 10 thousand copies in different locations and god knows how many people picked a paper up, how much would it cost for someone from BV to be stood along side giving out £10 special tickets?? there must be 20 - 25,000 people walk thru this street each day, approx 150,000 a week, surely 500 of which would use the ticket on a monday night? (even just out of curiosity!)... locally the clubs should be hammering the message home EVERY week, giving out enough flyers, giving out promotional material, giving out free stickers, posters etc etc etc, basically brow beating people EVERY week, into knowing you exist and how they can come and see you, if 500 extra is the 'break even' figure you dont even need the same 500 every week, just get that number of people in!!. (who cares if they dont understand the rules, its four riders screaming round a dirt track in a city centre with no brakes, what's not to like?).... add in a well ran, up to date, professional looking, interactive website which reflects 'your brand' and 500 extra a night must be achievable? EVERY meeting should be a stand alone EVENT, make it 'special', get people curious, hype it up with 'gimmicks', SELL the bloody thing!.. and they will come...(?) These things are always worth a try but many have tried them before. I remember at Bradford they would have representatives at all the major functions (including riders and bikes), they visited schools and hospitals and each week a large group of school kids would come along for free and be shown round everything. Bradford had the best team in the country and won piles of silver wear over several years, the local newspaper gave great coverage, often the bulk of the back page complete with photographs. By the time it closed the crowds were so small it was embarrassing. The stockcars meanwhile, staged only a few meetings a year, had very little publicity and got much bigger crowds. There is so much choice for people's leisure time now. As you suggested, it might be worth a try, who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 You could pay just £300 a week for a 9-5 "website" man.I think you can guarantee there's not a single Speedway club out there which would be paying a 'website man' a salary of over £15k a year!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Turner Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) These things are always worth a try but many have tried them before. I remember at Bradford they would have representatives at all the major functions (including riders and bikes), they visited schools and hospitals and each week a large group of school kids would come along for free and be shown round everything. Bradford had the best team in the country and won piles of silver wear over several years, the local newspaper gave great coverage, often the bulk of the back page complete with photographs. By the time it closed the crowds were so small it was embarrassing. The stockcars meanwhile, staged only a few meetings a year, had very little publicity and got much bigger crowds. There is so much choice for people's leisure time now. As you suggested, it might be worth a try, who knows? I think that's where you are mistaken foamfence, they have not been tried before. Online marketing requires a sustained and commited approach and results do not happen over night. Going in to schools is all well and good but that is no way to show them speedway. Kid's are only going to be so interested in looking at a bike. Online marketing allows us to shove it in their faces every single day with exciting videos and pictures. It is more than worth a try, it is a tried and tested method that works. I think you can guarantee there's not a single Speedway club out there which would be paying a 'website man' a salary of over £15k a year!!! Why not? A dedicated 'website man' who know's what he's doing could easily bring in well over £15k a year! And if not, why not try someone part time at first and pay them just £100 a week? I'm sure you could find someone who would do an hour or so a day just for free speedway tickets every week. The results will speak for themselves. Edited November 30, 2013 by Synikalle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) I think you can guarantee there's not a single Speedway club out there which would be paying a 'website man' a salary of over £15k a year!!! One person could easily manage the online presence of four or five clubs simultaneously. I spent two weeks doing the Newcastle United and Middlesbrough sites and basically spent most of my time watching Sky Sports News. Edited November 30, 2013 by MattK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 I think you can guarantee there's not a single Speedway club out there which would be paying a 'website man' a salary of over £15k a year!!! Sorry, but anyone suggesting a Speedway club should be paying £300 a week for someone to update a website and use social media is either nutty as a fruitcake or on a huge wind-up. Anyone seen KKS lately? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Sorry, but anyone suggesting a Speedway club should be paying £300 a week for someone to update a website and use social media is either nutty as a fruitcake or on a huge wind-up. Anyone seen KKS lately? Sssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. :unsure: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshy1974 Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Sorry, but anyone suggesting a Speedway club should be paying £300 a week for someone to update a website and use social media is either nutty as a fruitcake or on a huge wind-up. Anyone seen KKS lately? That'd be the promoter promoting you'd think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikko Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Is that right? I would've thought that the position of Track Photographer would bring with it the requirement to supply photos to the club which the Club would then have some rights over..?How does this work across the country with other clubs do people know? Derek, I'm not going to get into a public debate with you, but you have been editing speedway programs for long enough that you should know the law and yes it's international copyright law I am talking about, not a rule made by the SCB or GoSpeed. I know some people in speedway think they can make all the rules, but copyright is copyright. Sorry, but anyone suggesting a Speedway club should be paying £300 a week for someone to update a website and use social media is either nutty as a fruitcake or on a huge wind-up. I am certainly NOT suggesting a speedway club should pay anything near that figure! I've spent enough years trying to raise money for clubs to know that's not reasonable :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Derek, I'm not going to get into a public debate with you, but you have been editing speedway programs for long enough that you should know the law and yes it's international copyright law I am talking about, not a rule made by the SCB or GoSpeed. I know some people in speedway think they can make all the rules, but copyright is copyright. Okay - just seeking clarity from other clubs and how they do things. I wonder what would happen if I exerted copyright over all the words I've written in Speedway programmes since 2002 - many of which have been copied and cribbed in other programmes and on websites..? One 'law' for writers and another for photographers apparently..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Turner Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) Sorry, but anyone suggesting a Speedway club should be paying £300 a week for someone to update a website and use social media is either nutty as a fruitcake or on a huge wind-up. Anyone seen KKS lately? £300 a week would be a fair price to pay for a full time webmaster. By that I mean somebody who would take on the role of completely redesigning the website, designing a phone and tablet version of the website, updating facebook and twitter several times a day, interacting with fans throughout the day, editing and uploading photos and videos, creating competitions and generating hype across the internet. I am paid nearly double that for doing a very similar role, however my role does require a full time position and is in a completely different industry to speedway. It depends on how encompassing you would want your marketing campaign to be, if you simply wanted someone to update the website, Facebook and Twitter once or twice a day then you could probably find somebody who would be happy to do it just for free speedway tickets! Alternatively you could pay £300 a week for someone to do just that for all the clubs in one go, that would cost each club less than the price of 2 adult admissions per week. Edited November 30, 2013 by Synikalle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) These things are always worth a try but many have tried them before. I remember at Bradford they would have representatives at all the major functions (including riders and bikes), they visited schools and hospitals and each week a large group of school kids would come along for free and be shown round everything. Bradford had the best team in the country and won piles of silver wear over several years, the local newspaper gave great coverage, often the bulk of the back page complete with photographs. By the time it closed the crowds were so small it was embarrassing. The stockcars meanwhile, staged only a few meetings a year, had very little publicity and got much bigger crowds. There is so much choice for people's leisure time now. As you suggested, it might be worth a try, who knows? so much of the modern age 'success' is simply 'style over substance'.... look at the talentless tossers who become 'celebrities'? it is hype, hype and more hype... it doesnt needs thousands to get your message across (especially at a local level), I find it amazing that I (and 1000's of others in my immediate locale) will know where and when a local 'harvest festival' will take place yet when the 'greatest speedway rider on the planet' arrives next year with wolves not one iota of hype/interest will try to be generated... the week leading up to Tai's appearance should see 'teasing' daily quotes/stories in the local press as a minimum, there should be stories about cookie and worrall wanting to take his scalp and gp crown and having no time for him, not liking his 'tats'/earings etc. etc etc... it is total bollox, but it doesnt need to be true it is just creating interest!! it might a 'bit wwe' but who cares, it will put 'bums on seats' and at the end of the day speedway IS gladiatorial and should be sold as such.. (as a family sport though obviously, that goes without saying..) as for bradford, for me sadly the racing wasnt ever much cop with home riders often sodding off into the distance each race, which I am sure eventually even the home fans got bored of.. city demographics too must have played a part as ever more of the indigenous population became the minority and finally the 'bulls' at that time attracted big numbers (ironically through a massively effective marketing campaign)!!!... all would I have thought had an effect... Edited November 30, 2013 by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) I am certainly NOT suggesting a speedway club should pay anything near that figure! I've spent enough years trying to raise money for clubs to know that's not reasonable :-) No. I wasn't suggesting you'd made the daft comment about a full time salaried employee to update websites and social media. I'm aware of the work you've put into speedway, and like most folk, certainly not for a wage that isn't there. It was someone else talking nonsense Edited November 30, 2013 by John Leslie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 I think that's where you are mistaken foamfence, they have not been tried before. Online marketing requires a sustained and commited approach and results do not happen over night. Going in to schools is all well and good but that is no way to show them speedway. Kid's are only going to be so interested in looking at a bike. Online marketing allows us to shove it in their faces every single day with exciting videos and pictures. It is more than worth a try, it is a tried and tested method that works. Why not? A dedicated 'website man' who know's what he's doing could easily bring in well over £15k a year! And if not, why not try someone part time at first and pay them just £100 a week? I'm sure you could find someone who would do an hour or so a day just for free speedway tickets every week. The results will speak for themselves. All right then call me a liar! The results MIGHT speak for themselves.... Then again. so much of the modern age 'success' is simply 'style over substance'.... look at the talentless tossers who become 'celebrities'? it is hype, hype and more hype... it doesnt needs thousands to get your message across (especially at a local level), I find it amazing that I (and 1000's of others in my immediate locale) will know where and when a local 'harvest festival' will take place yet when the 'greatest speedway rider on the planet' arrives next year with wolves not one iota of hype/interest will try to be generated... the week leading up to Tai's appearance should see 'teasing' daily quotes/stories in the local press as a minimum, there should be stories about cookie and worrall wanting to take his scalp and gp crown and having no time for him, not liking his 'tats'/earings etc. etc etc... it is total bollox, but it doesnt need to be true it is just creating interest!! it might a 'bit wwe' but who cares, it will put 'bums on seats' and at the end of the day speedway IS gladiatorial and should be sold as such.. (as a family sport though obviously, that goes without saying..) as for bradford, for me sadly the racing wasnt ever much cop with home riders often sodding off into the distance each race, which I am sure eventually even the home fans got bored of.. city demographics too must have played a part as ever more of the indigenous population became the minority and finally the 'bulls' at that time attracted big numbers (ironically through a massively effective marketing campaign)!!!... all would I have thought had an effect... Yes but the Bulls went bankrupt! Bradford was just an example, there are others and the majority of tracks aren't in the centre of a town or city by the way, too many of them can't even be reached by public transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Sorry, but anyone suggesting a Speedway club should be paying £300 a week for someone to update a website and use social media is either nutty as a fruitcake or on a huge wind-up. Anyone seen KKS lately? Ironically, a decent web site, which sells merchandise, tickets and other content, could easily pay for itself. The problem is, speedway web sites and the rest of their online presence are put together on a shoe string and that can be clearly seen in the results. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Turner Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) No. I wasn't suggesting you'd made the daft comment about a full time salaried employee to update websites and social media. I'm aware of the work you've put into speedway, and like most folk, certainly not for a wage that isn't there. It was someone else talking nonsense You shouldn't be nasty to somebody just because it is bit too complicated for you to understand. If you refer to my previous post you will see what I was talking about. A full time salaried employee would do much more than "update websites". If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. If you just wanted somebody to update the website, facebook and twitter you could probably find somebody who would work for a couple of free speedway tickets a week. Ironically, a decent web site, which sells merchandise, tickets and other content, could easily pay for itself. The problem is, speedway web sites and the rest of their online presence are put together on a shoe string and that can be clearly seen in the results. I hadn't even thought of that, the merchandise side of things would be good money too! Edited November 30, 2013 by Synikalle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 You shouldn't be nasty just because it is bit too complicated for you to understand Don't get touchy and childish. If you post something daft on a public forum, someone is always going to point out that you've posted something daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Turner Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) Don't get touchy and childish. If you post something daft on a public forum, someone is always going to point out that you've posted something daft. I think this is all a bit much for you to understand! There is nothing daft about paying £15k a year for a full time webmaster who's role encompasses far more than "updating websites". I am paid £25k a year as a full time webmaster, albeit in a non-comparable industry, but it didn't start that way! I started on £15k and earnt a higher salary through the results I have been delivering ever since. Like I said (but you mustn't have had your glasses on), you could find somebody who would simply update the website, facebook and twitter for just a couple of free speedway tickets a week. Edited November 30, 2013 by Synikalle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 I hadn't even thought of that, the merchandise side of things would be good money too! The best way would be to have all the clubs sites under a single portal. That way, all the sites would have a consistent look and feel (unlike the sites now), but with each branded for the individual clubs. Administering them centrally would reduce costs and allow all clubs to have features such as email newsletters and e-commerce. There is massive potential if you integrate this with Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube, but it takes ambition on behalf of the promoters and obviously an initial outlay of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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