British Speedway Promoters Meeting

[pugwash]

It's called 'make it up as you go'.

[Elephantman]

It's called 'make it up as you go'.

I agree. I know Neil Machin is not everyone's cup of tea, but he has operated a well run business for 20 odd years. It begs the question has he decided to sell up because he just can't be bothered to deal with some of the promoters who come up with these half arsed ideas at the drop of a hat?

[Shale Shaker]

I agree. I know Neil Machin is not everyone's cup of tea, but he has operated a well run business for 20 odd years. It begs the question has he decided to sell up because he just can't be bothered to deal with some of the promoters who come up with these half arsed ideas at the drop of a hat?

 

And he has staunchly resisted calls to move to the EL - a very shrewd man.

[Tsunami]

I agree. I know Neil Machin is not everyone's cup of tea, but he has operated a well run business for 20 odd years. It begs the question has he decided to sell up because he just can't be bothered to deal with some of the promoters who come up with these half arsed ideas at the drop of a hat?

As you know, it has nothing do with anything like that, but nice try. Neil has always wintered in OZ, and it was well known that when the time came he would move over there. Surprised it has taken him so long to take the decision. Best of luck to Neil.

[oldtimer]

The idea of releasing such a vague press release (with regard to NL riders as EL reserves) was undoubtedly designed to stimulate discussion on the forum - a roaring success!

 

Then, when the dust has settled, they will discuss the fans fears and suggestions, pick the best ones and issue a final document. In this way they stand a lot more chance of coming up with a better system, and avoiding some of the pitfalls that they themselves had not foreseen.

 

And they can say that they have listened to and acted upon the opinions of the fans!

 

Very clever.

That will be a first!

[pandorum]

And there is the rub.

Opinions and statements, ignoring what information that is in posts that could inform you and others of the real situation/explanation. There are untrue and misleading basic facts being repeated time and time again, despite others like me trying to help to correct those statements.

If, as you seem to agree, that your decisions are being made that are based on incomplete information, what then does that say about the very conclusions that you arrive at. Before anybody jumps in and says "were're all entitled to our opinions", I agree, but to ignore the real facts makes the decisions and conclusions rather flawed.

That's a fair point but let's not get too carried away.

Many of us making uninformed judgements are not new to the sport and have decades of experience of the BSPA and thier incompetence.

I don't think we are ignoring any information as such simply that many don't trust the BSPA.

 

Surely you are not arguing that they have done this out of any altruistic desire to help young speedway riders?

 

There is a level of ambiguity in what the BSPA have said so far (and for the purpose of discussion I use that term to encompass Cooks statment as well).

Obviously one would expect this to be fleshed out and made clearer but it does all smack of something cobbled together with less thought than should be accorded it considering the fundamental changes to the sport this will bring not only to the spectator but to the riders expected to fulfil the BSPAs aspirations.

 

Ordinary fans are aware that there are some here that have an insight into what is happening and appreciate that input but this is a discussion and all the points you raise happen in a discussion.

 

But that does not mean ordinary fans input is invalid just because it does not agree with what people like you bring to the debate.

We still await any official blueprint as to what is happening and how it is actually going to happen as so far we have had a few blurbs mentioning this in the BSPA statement and Cooks comments. I have seen you have made some good points and have added some information but it still leaves me thinking this is an ill thought out panic measure when it should be a well thought out blueprint for the forseeable future.

 

I'll see your Iron maiden and raise it with a Bucks Fizz.. I once got drunk in a bar at JFK with two of Bucks Fizz but sadly one of them wasn't Cheryl Baker..and that certainly doesnt make me a good singer.

Damn I am Jelly unless it was the two guys in which case I am not

Edited November 19, 2013 by pandorum

[E I Addio]

I agree. I know Neil Machin is not everyone's cup of tea, but he has operated a well run business for 20 odd years. It begs the question has he decided to sell up because he just can't be bothered to deal with some of the promoters who come up with these half arsed ideas at the drop of a hat?

In your efforts to appear cleverer than the rest and present the BSPA as total fools it is yourself you have made look foolish.

 

The BSPA have announced a package of measures which are inter -dependent and have to be looked at as a whole, not individually. Lets have a look at some of these "half-arsed ideas at the drop of a hat".-

 

1. Sticking with riders who are prepared to commit to a full season of British Speedway rather than disappearing off to continental meetings as and when it suits them. What a half -arsed idea that is. Everybody knows how much the fans want to see r/r and guests as often as possible.

 

2. Increasing the league programme from 28 meetings to 36 , so those riders committed to British Speedway can earn reasonable living. I can see why you are against that half -arsed idea. And of course all the EL fans think 14 home matches was too many anyway didn't they.? As for it being made up at the drop of a hat, sorry to disappoint you but Jon Cook announced last July that he and his fellow promoters were looking at ways of increasing the number of meetings in 2014.But of course you wouldn't know that would you ?Ignoring the facts makes it easier to make dumb comments about the ideas being at the drop of a hat.

 

3.In increasing the number of fixtures it is necessary to reduce the cost per meeting. If people like Bob Dugard are losing £70k per 14 meetings then 18 meetings will lose him £90k unless costs are reduced, To any thinking person it must be reasonably obvious that these have been necessary measures to take. Never mind about past mistakes that got us into this situation, this is where we are now and this is what is being addressed.

Are you with me so far ? I doubt it but lets continue .

 

4.A key element in cutting costs per meeting and trying to bring the long term stability of a good supply of British riders is the fast tracking idea. Yes I know that something could have been done years ago but it wasn't, and I now the NL boys could go through the PL route but that wouldn't save EL costs so what we have is the only show in town, if the whole package is going to work.

 

Stick to the PL if that's what makes you happy, but to strand on the side lines and make silly comments about the quality of BSPA press releases only makes you look silly. The post AGM press releases have been like that for years. Nothing new there but what you fail to understand is that the press releases are the least of our problems right now. The immediate issue is getting a full league programme in 2014 without any more clubs going under and at least something is being done to turn the corner. When or the day comes when the most important topic is the quality of BSPA press releases most us will be happy to debate it,.

 

Of course you could always attend Jon Cooks forum next Friday and tell him how half-arsed and at the drop of a hat it all is but somehow I doubt that you will.

 

I see Tsunami has already dealt with your crass comments about the reason Neil Machin has sold up.

[TheScotsman]

I like your style!!

[Elephantman]

In your efforts to appear cleverer than the rest and present the BSPA as total fools it is yourself you have made look foolish.

 

The BSPA have announced a package of measures which are inter -dependent and have to be looked at as a whole, not individually. Lets have a look at some of these "half-arsed ideas at the drop of a hat".-

 

1. Sticking with riders who are prepared to commit to a full season of British Speedway rather than disappearing off to continental meetings as and when it suits them. What a half -arsed idea that is. Everybody knows how much the fans want to see r/r and guests as often as possible.

 

2. Increasing the league programme from 28 meetings to 36 , so those riders committed to British Speedway can earn reasonable living. I can see why you are against that half -arsed idea. And of course all the EL fans think 14 home matches was too many anyway didn't they.? As for it being made up at the drop of a hat, sorry to disappoint you but Jon Cook announced last July that he and his fellow promoters were looking at ways of increasing the number of meetings in 2014.But of course you wouldn't know that would you ?Ignoring the facts makes it easier to make dumb comments about the ideas being at the drop of a hat.

 

3.In increasing the number of fixtures it is necessary to reduce the cost per meeting. If people like Bob Dugard are losing £70k per 14 meetings then 18 meetings will lose him £90k unless costs are reduced, To any thinking person it must be reasonably obvious that these have been necessary measures to take. Never mind about past mistakes that got us into this situation, this is where we are now and this is what is being addressed.

Are you with me so far ? I doubt it but lets continue .

 

4.A key element in cutting costs per meeting and trying to bring the long term stability of a good supply of British riders is the fast tracking idea. Yes I know that something could have been done years ago but it wasn't, and I now the NL boys could go through the PL route but that wouldn't save EL costs so what we have is the only show in town, if the whole package is going to work.

 

Stick to the PL if that's what makes you happy, but to strand on the side lines and make silly comments about the quality of BSPA press releases only makes you look silly. The post AGM press releases have been like that for years. Nothing new there but what you fail to understand is that the press releases are the least of our problems right now. The immediate issue is getting a full league programme in 2014 without any more clubs going under and at least something is being done to turn the corner. When or the day comes when the most important topic is the quality of BSPA press releases most us will be happy to debate it,.

 

Of course you could always attend Jon Cooks forum next Friday and tell him how half-arsed and at the drop of a hat it all is but somehow I doubt that you will.

 

I see Tsunami has already dealt with your crass comments about the reason Neil Machin has sold up.

Who yanked your chain? You clearly have not read my posts. I haven't even commented on the BSPA press release I've commented on Cooks press release.

 

I happen to think this proposal is half-arsed simple as that.

 

I cannot understand why Neil Machin is selling his interest just as the economy may be starting to recover; he will get minimum value. I can only assume that other factors are involved apart from his desire to live in Australia. Bearing in mind the quality of some of the decisions made it is not unreasonable ask if he's going now as he is fed up with dealing with his fellow promoters? imposing Air Fences for example; not a requirement; unproven; only required for FIM events; but everyone must have them (at least in the UK).

 

Now get back in your box and read my posts properly before wasting 20 minutes of your life telling me I'm a fool, silly and my comments crass.

 

On a final note your point 4 sums up what most people know. The Elite league only cares about the Elite league and if they have to sacrifice a few National League riders careers by using them as cannon fodder to reduce costs and allow the promoters to keep their snouts in the TV money trough they will. There are more clubs outside the EL than in it; if you looked outside your box occasionally you might notice that.

[Tsunami]

That's a fair point but let's not get too carried away.

Many of us making uninformed judgements are not new to the sport and have decades of experience of the BSPA and thier incompetence.

I don't think we are ignoring any information as such simply that many don't trust the BSPA.

 

Surely you are not arguing that they have done this out of any altruistic desire to help young speedway riders?

 

There is a level of ambiguity in what the BSPA have said so far (and for the purpose of discussion I use that term to encompass Cooks statment as well).

Obviously one would expect this to be fleshed out and made clearer but it does all smack of something cobbled together with less thought than should be accorded it considering the fundamental changes to the sport this will bring not only to the spectator but to the riders expected to fulfil the BSPAs aspirations.

 

Ordinary fans are aware that there are some here that have an insight into what is happening and appreciate that input but this is a discussion and all the points you raise happen in a discussion.

 

But that does not mean ordinary fans input is invalid just because it does not agree with what people like you bring to the debate.

We still await any official blueprint as to what is happening and how it is actually going to happen as so far we have had a few blurbs mentioning this in the BSPA statement and Cooks comments. I have seen you have made some good points and have added some information but it still leaves me thinking this is an ill thought out panic measure when it should be a well thought out blueprint for the forseeable future.

Damn I am Jelly unless it was the two guys in which case I am not

My point is that to make a good decision you need good and true information. Despite me and others pointing out things which have either been ignored or just wrong, to not accept those things rather flaws and devalues any conclusion that is based on those wrong facts. If people ignore true facts, then that will make their input invalid.

I agree that the detail in the blueprint is what really counts, and it will be based on practicality, rather than attitude to change.

[Walshy1974]

Brilliant work by BSPA, about time but credit when it's due.. Why? Because a few on here couldn't add 2 plus 2 and get 4 with the help of an abacus... A businessman starts to feel the pressure as his company's not making a sustainable turnover. He thinks I'll go buy a top top quality rider who I have no way of paying but at least Joe Public will get what he cries for. Then said businessman man panics a year later as the wolf's at the door. Oh S#@T says businessman I need to keep old Joe happy so I'll borrow some cash from someone. Joe's happy again cos now he's got 2 of the best riders around in his side. AAAARRGGHHH DAMN.. No more sky income, sponsors aren't as readily available. Mr Business man says to BSPA tell you what I've got a plan that may save me from bankruptcy and keep speedway alive for another year... Of course Joe whining Public will still have something to moan about but what the he'll. Speedway needs youngsters watching and riding, this kills 2 birds with 1 stone... Oh no cries Joe Public what you mean I won't be spoilt, well that's no bother as I'll behave like a 3yr old throwing a tantrum and say I won't go to my local track I'll just whine on here, what the hell it's not my money. Unfortunately it was too late for the Panthers but for the rest let's hope the plan made by the committee of businessman will succeed and speedway continues to evolve.

 

 

[pandorum]

My point is that to make a good decision you need good and true information. Despite me and others pointing out things which have either been ignored or just wrong, to not accept those things rather flaws and devalues any conclusion that is based on those wrong facts. If people ignore true facts, then that will make their input invalid.

I agree that the detail in the blueprint is what really counts, and it will be based on practicality, rather than attitude to change.

Again a fair point but the fact still remains we don't have good and true information.

 

The official statements are vague at best. There is little information as to how they intend to choose the 20 and how this 20 will be able to compete as they will come into contact with the 1-5 because they are reserves and have a potential 7 rides.

There is a vague reference to a new format which protects the reserves in a similar way to the Swedish model.

The idea is full of ambiguity, equivocation and vagueness and the reaction to it will reflect this.

 

Again what you say is welcome and interesting in terms of the debate but once again it is the official statements that people are basing thier view on not your statements so the conclusions based on this cannot be devalued by unofficial statements issued by forum members.

Unless you are speaking for the BSPA of course?

As you say this is a practical measure rather than any foresight and as such fans will be suspicious of it

[OILYRAG]

If the Premier league is such a good product why not have just one big league (increasing the amount of fixtures)and ditch the real people that are raping the sport of its cash the top riders ?

 

People like just to pick one at random Kenny Bjjere must have been "earning" the entire gate money alone at Peterboro and I think after a few years the top riders would lower thier cash demands and come back on lower terms , I know quite a few speedway riders and apart from the top 5% no one is earning any cash out of Speedway and for the risks they run I am amazed any of them do it and we have a sport to watch !

 

For a sport that is based on averages for team building it is amazing how many times the richest win !

 

Also IMO if a youngster is good enough and has the cash to make his machines competative he will rise through the ranks like has always been the case , fast tracking to the Elite and ringfencing thier races will only impede any progress ... not speed it up IMO.

Edited November 19, 2013 by OILYRAG

[Trees]

Richie Worrall tweeted that he is excited by the prospect of the new rule, reckons he has done all his learning in the EL . . . but what does he know?

[Daniel Smith]

Thought it had been mentioned that there was now to be an instant R/R for injured riders?

 

Makes good sense to me,

Really???

 

We know how some teams like to bend rules so here's how that rule will work and I will use the biggest benders in the game, Poole.

 

Rider at No'1 has 2 0's. Another has 2 wins. What happens next???

[OILYRAG]

Richie Worrall tweeted that he is excited by the prospect of the new rule, reckons he has done all his learning in the EL . . . but what does he know?

I would be happy as well if I was him ... with a couple of races against NL riders per meeting !

[iris123]

Also IMO if a youngster is good enough and has the cash to make his machines competative he will rise through the ranks like has always been the case , fast tracking to the Elite and ringfencing thier races will only impede any progress ... not speed it up IMO.

Bottom line is,none of the youngsters will be forced into this.It is a decision they have to make for themselves.They should still have the PL and or the NL safety net.Most if not all the riders in line to be picked should already have decent equipment.From what i have seen most seem to be equiped with much better equipment than they really need.Just last winter i was surprised to see a foreign PL rider selling off 2 or 3 GPlevel!!!! bikes and two!!! vans.....As we know from experience,if the young Brits don't take these spots then you can be sure there will be plenty of foreign riders who will be more than willing.Now,who would we rather see get the chance?

[The Third Man]

As you know, it has nothing do with anything like that, but nice try. Neil has always wintered in OZ, and it was well known that when the time came he would move over there. Surprised it has taken him so long to take the decision. Best of luck to Neil.

 

think you need to yalk to him before you decide the reason he wants to sell up, and he is not emigrating to Australia this winter, he has already said he would help the new promoter if he wants help

[Elephantman]

If the Premier league is such a good product why not have just one big league (increasing the amount of fixtures)and ditch the real people that are raping the sport of its cash the top riders ?

 

People like just to pick one at random Kenny Bjjere must have been "earning" the entire gate money alone at Peterboro and I think after a few years the top riders would lower thier cash demands and come back on lower terms , I know quite a few speedway riders and apart from the top 5% no one is earning any cash out of Speedway and for the risks they run I am amazed any of them do it and we have a sport to watch !

 

For a sport that is based on averages for team building it is amazing how many times the richest win !

 

Also IMO if a youngster is good enough and has the cash to make his machines competative he will rise through the ranks like has always been the case , fast tracking to the Elite and ringfencing thier races will only impede any progress ... not speed it up IMO.

You may need a Doctors appointment on the back of this Oilyrag; I actually agree with you!

[OILYRAG]

Bottom line is,none of the youngsters will be forced into this.It is a decision they have to make for themselves.They should still have the PL and or the NL safety net.Most if not all the riders in line to be picked should already have decent equipment.From what i have seen most seem to be equiped with much better equipment than they really need.Just last winter i was surprised to see a foreign PL rider selling off 2 or 3 GPlevel!!!! bikes and two!!! vans.....As we know from experience,if the young Brits don't take these spots then you can be sure there will be plenty of foreign riders who will be more than willing.Now,who would we rather see get the chance?

 

The brit everytime ... but on merit , not just because he's cheap !

think you need to yalk to him before you decide the reason he wants to sell up, and he is not emigrating to Australia this winter, he has already said he would help the new promoter if he wants help

 

Neil wants to sell because he's losing money every week , Sheffield has been "for sale" for about 5 years now !

Edited November 19, 2013 by OILYRAG