BluTiger Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Why do so many people assume they know more than the BSPA about Speedway? You may not like the way they do things but it's fact that they are running tracks while the vast majority of us are looking in as outsiders with varying degrees of knowledge. There are very, very few on here who know even the basics of running a Speedway track and maybe one or two who have the in depth knowledge of the promoters. You/we may not like their decisions but given the fact that they have all the required information to arrive at a decision and non of us do it seems a bit daft to just assume they are stupid. In general they have somehow made enough money to run a Speedway track whether as a business or an expensive hobby, the vast majority of us have been unable to make enough money to consider it even if we wanted to. It's all a bit like the postman telling the bricklayer how to lay bricks because he saw somebody else do it once, or the brickie telling the postie the best way to deliver letters because it's obvious - even though he's never actually done it. Assuming somebody is stupid because they don't do things the way an amateur thinks best seems a bit, well, stupid! History I would imagine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Why do so many people assume they know more than the BSPA about Speedway? You may not like the way they do things but it's fact that they are running tracks while the vast majority of us are looking in as outsiders with varying degrees of knowledge. There are very, very few on here who know even the basics of running a Speedway track and maybe one or two who have the in depth knowledge of the promoters. You/we may not like their decisions but given the fact that they have all the required information to arrive at a decision and non of us do it seems a bit daft to just assume they are stupid. In general they have somehow made enough money to run a Speedway track whether as a business or an expensive hobby, the vast majority of us have been unable to make enough money to consider it even if we wanted to. It's all a bit like the postman telling the bricklayer how to lay bricks because he saw somebody else do it once, or the brickie telling the postie the best way to deliver letters because it's obvious - even though he's never actually done it. Assuming somebody is stupid because they don't do things the way an amateur thinks best seems a bit, well, stupid! So we are not allowed opinions? Just because the promoters put their money in and run the clubs does not, in all cases, mean they know what they're doing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Why do so many people assume they know more than the BSPA about Speedway? You may not like the way they do things but it's fact that they are running tracks while the vast majority of us are looking in as outsiders with varying degrees of knowledge. There are very, very few on here who know even the basics of running a Speedway track and maybe one or two who have the in depth knowledge of the promoters. Why do people assume that when people debate these issue they are assuming they know more than the BSPA? It's a discussion forum and people are discussing things. People discuss football without running Man Utd or managing the England team so why can't they do it in speedway? I once discussed the Moon landings but am not an astronaut. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 http://www.speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.23260 I think this makes it clear; it is an Elite League idea and a particularly stupid one at that. It has the potential to be a farce; can you imagine be allocated two young riders who can't afford top equipment; seeing them get beaten every week and your team beaten because of their poor scores? It is an ill judged, ill thought out decision by an Elite league who are bereft of ideas. It would be interesting to know what the NL & PL teams think about it? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 http://www.speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.23260 I think this makes it clear; it is an Elite League idea and a particularly stupid one at that. It has the potential to be a farce; can you imagine be allocated two young riders who can't afford top equipment; seeing them get beaten every week and your team beaten because of their poor scores? It is an ill judged, ill thought out decision by an Elite league who are bereft of ideas. It would be interesting to know what the NL & PL teams think about it? Why will they get beaten every week, they have two reserves races against the other reserves and they still get to ride in other leagues (all three if they get the chances and accept them). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 http://www.speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.23260 I think this makes it clear; it is an Elite League idea and a particularly stupid one at that. It has the potential to be a farce; can you imagine be allocated two young riders who can't afford top equipment; seeing them get beaten every week and your team beaten because of their poor scores? It is an ill judged, ill thought out decision by an Elite league who are bereft of ideas. It would be interesting to know what the NL & PL teams think about it? I don't think it makes it clear at all. It's an announcement of a proven idea, which as he says "details to follow" and then people can judge it with more knowledge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I wish people would take the trouble to read the latest posts from those 'in the know' eg Tsunami, amongst others. Also the statement on www.speedwaygp.com by Jon Cook gives more detail and fills in some of the gaps in the original (rushed!) headline statement issued Sunday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) On the face of it the idea ticks a number of boxes. It helps cut costs. It makes it easier for clubs to keep the top boys in the UK. Which makes the league more attractive to the TV companies. The 20 young Brits should develop and help the sport nationally. Gets rid of the low average foreigners! The devil will be in the detail (as Tsunami mentions) What riders will qualify for these positions? (and how will it affect their positions with other clubs in other leagues) Who goes where? What changes will take place to the match format? How will Matt Ford come out of it at an advantage? Can we trust the powers that be to implement this fairly and appropriately???? Edited November 19, 2013 by salty 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I don't think it makes it clear at all. It's an announcement of a proven idea, which as he says "details to follow" and then people can judge it with more knowledge. With respect, I think it does; he doesn't say the BSPA have introduced this. It is an Elite League initiative. He states, "I am looking forward to going into more details of the season ahead at our fans’ forum". That is details of the season ahead not details on this initiative. I don't know what they do in Sweden or Poland but are we saying that they take (what are fundamentally) junior riders and throw them in to compete with the big boys? I hold the view that this is an ill thought out but money saving scheme. I hate to think what the TV executives will make of it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Shaker Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I wish people would take the trouble to read the latest posts from those 'in the know' eg Tsunami, amongst others. Also the statement on www.speedwaygp.com by Jon Cook gives more detail and fills in some of the gaps in the original (rushed!) headline statement issued Sunday. I actually find this a bit condescending. Perhaps we should all just shut up and accept that we know nothing, and others will decide what's good for us. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) With respect, I think it does; he doesn't say the BSPA have introduced this. It is an Elite League initiative. He states, "I am looking forward to going into more details of the season ahead at our fans’ forum". That is details of the season ahead not details on this initiative. I don't know what they do in Sweden or Poland but are we saying that they take (what are fundamentally) junior riders and throw them in to compete with the big boys? I hold the view that this is an ill thought out but money saving scheme. I hate to think what the TV executives will make of it! Try reading what has been said and you will see the answer is no. And no they will not be wobbly junior riders either. I actually find this a bit condescending. Perhaps we should all just shut up and accept that we know nothing, and others will decide what's good for us. I don't think anybody is trying to be condescending, but it would help if posters expressed the like/dislike on what is being said after at least reading this thread. Some obviously haven't, and already made their mind up regardless, but that's nowt new. Edited November 19, 2013 by Tsunami 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Why will they get beaten every week, they have two reserves races against the other reserves and they still get to ride in other leagues (all three if they get the chances and accept them).If you read my post again you will see that I am saying that if you are allocated two weak or poorly funded riders it could cost your team victories on the track; what they are doing in other leagues is not relevant to this proposal. How are you going to feel if your team are losing meeting by a couple of points and its down to the novices not performing? Who you going to blame? Are you going to keep paying your £15 or whatever every week? If the NL riders end up only racing each other it is unfair on the paying public and the top five; if they end up racing against the top five it is unfair on them and the paying public. This is a no win situation for the public and the riders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) On the face of it the idea ticks a number of boxes.It helps cut costs.It makes it easier for clubs to keep the top boys in the UK.Which makes the league more attractive to the TV companies.The 20 young Brits should develop and help the sport nationally.Gets rid of the low average foreigners!The devil will be in the detail (as Tsunami mentions)What riders will qualify for these positions? (and how will it affect their positions with other clubs in other leagues)Who goes where?What changes will take place to the match format?How will Matt Ford come out of it at an advantage?Can we trust the powers that be to implement this fairly and appropriately????I agree with almost everything you say here.Including your scepticism about implementation. I think that the promoters are taking the tried and tested route of watering down the top league to cut costs whilst maintaining everyone's option to continue to pay for top men as well. It's difficult to see what other option could have been adopted. I'm less sure that this will offer one iota of 'fast tracking'. But using the PR spin of that in negotiations with Sky may be something Russell can work with. It will be interesting to see how the whole thing operates over the season. We should remember the occasion another similar method was last used. In the eighteen heat format of 1993 there were two juniors in protected places in each team. And remember how getting those two riders 'right' won the league for Belle Vue. The untried hopefuls thrown in at the start had been swapped for Smith and Schofield by mid season. It transformed the Aces chances. Come the decider at Wolverhampton - truly the best 'play off' before they had even been created - and the Aces duo trounced their opposition counterparts. And the League was won. Edited November 19, 2013 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Turner Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Why do so many people assume they know more than the BSPA about Speedway? You may not like the way they do things but it's fact that they are running tracks while the vast majority of us are looking in as outsiders with varying degrees of knowledge. There are very, very few on here who know even the basics of running a Speedway track and maybe one or two who have the in depth knowledge of the promoters. You/we may not like their decisions but given the fact that they have all the required information to arrive at a decision and non of us do it seems a bit daft to just assume they are stupid. I wouldn't say stupid, I would say out of touch or perhaps even incompetent. If anyone tried to run a business like the BSPA run British speedway it would inevitably crash and burn. The fact of the matter is massive marketing opportunities to support the growth of British speedway are dismissed entirely due to the ignorance of outdated and out of touch promoters. Diluting our leagues is not the right way to support growth, it is a last ditch effort to retain current supporters. And it won't work. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fever Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 If you read my post again you will see that I am saying that if you are allocated two weak or poorly funded riders it could cost your team victories on the track; what they are doing in other leagues is not relevant to this proposal. How are you going to feel if your team are losing meeting by a couple of points and its down to the novices not performing? Who you going to blame? Are you going to keep paying your £15 or whatever every week? If the NL riders end up only racing each other it is unfair on the paying public and the top five; if they end up racing against the top five it is unfair on them and the paying public. This is a no win situation for the public and the riders. Its bad enough now when one of your top 5 gets injured and replaced by reserve in vital races - your team is obviously weakened. It'll be even worse now :/ There really needs to be a supplementary reserve from the top 5 in these instances, or an 'instant R/R' rule or something .. especially as you'd be able to have it in the very next meeting anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Turner Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Its bad enough now when one of your top 5 gets injured and replaced by reserve in vital races - your team is obviously weakened. It'll be even worse now :/ There really needs to be a supplementary reserve from the top 5 in these instances, or an 'instant R/R' rule or something .. especially as you'd be able to have it in the very next meeting anyway! I agree entirely. There is not a chance in hell that a NL/PL standard reserve will beat the likes of Darcy Ward in any Elite League race! Unless it is gifted to them through engine failure or tapes exclusion. Boring boring boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Its bad enough now when one of your top 5 gets injured and replaced by reserve in vital races - your team is obviously weakened. It'll be even worse now :/ There really needs to be a supplementary reserve from the top 5 in these instances, or an 'instant R/R' rule or something .. especially as you'd be able to have it in the very next meeting anyway! Thought it had been mentioned that there was now to be an instant R/R for injured riders? Makes good sense to me, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I agree entirely. There is not a chance in hell that a NL/PL standard reserve will beat the likes of Darcy Ward in any Elite League race! Unless it is gifted to them through engine failure or tapes exclusion. Boring boring boring. Youre right because they wont ride against the No1 in any of their heats!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Do Sweden and Poland have Nl standard riders at reserve in there league ? do the reserves get picked by them by the league ? I keep hearing it's the same system and how good it's been but is it ? and is it really the reason why more fans watch Speedway league matches in these places . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoMinuteWarning Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Thought it had been mentioned that there was now to be an instant R/R for injured riders? Makes good sense to me, Not to me, it would be wide open to abuse! Out-of-form rider is "injured" so that an in-form R/R rider can be used. No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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