THE DEAN MACHINE Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 These couple of rule changes right or wrong are only going to please or not as seems the case the fans who already attend speedway and incase people are unsure the reason the sport is losing money is there are not enough of said fans attending .so my question is where is the vision for the future to attract new or even ex supporters to speedway 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Anyone who thinks this decision about the reserves was to aid their development is deluded.... They are being used as a tool to cut costs pure and simple. It would be a travesty should Kings Lynn not get Lambert and Kerr.... I just can't see how the Bspa can allocate clubs assets or those that they've helped develop for years to another club?? It's like going to work, doing a cracking job and your company director punching your lights out.... Say Belle Vue get Lewis Kerr, why the hell should the lad have to travel to travel every week, costing him a fortune when his local track is round the corner.... It's a whitewash I think 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 I read on one site today that the lads from the NL with ride against one reserve race and one race against the lower order of the opposite team. So it looks like one race between 6/7 and one between 6/7 and 4/5 so that race should give them a bit of competion to strive for without facing the top order boys. Only real problem for the NL lads is where does the money come from to help them get their bike tuned well enogh to compete at that little bit extra that they can get from their machines. I am sure most of them run on a vey tight shoestring budget and any extra cost to them will be vey hard to come by. I just hope that the teams they ride for give them all the support they will need to be competative in the EL. It could turn out quite well if things are done properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Could be interesting if the no 4 or no 5 rider gets injured and the team has to use R/R, who is eligible to take his rides. Be interesting to see if Olly Allen rides EL Why?? Its never been that interesting previously.....!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 the trouble is even if this works in 2014, what on earth happens the year after? There won't be a "year after". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) Anyone who thinks thiTs decision about the reserves was to aid their development is deluded.... hey are being used as a tool to cut costs pure and simple. It would be a travesty should Kings Lynn not get Lambert and Kerr.... I just can't see how the Bspa can allocate clubs assets or those that they've helped develop for years to another club?? It's like going to work, doing a cracking job and your company director punching your lights out.... Say Belle Vue get Lewis Kerr, why the hell should the lad have to travel to travel every week, costing him a fortune when his local track is round the corner.... It's a whitewash I think Can't agree with you there Arson. It of course does save money, but Poland and Sweden who we are copying, surely did not bring the measures in for that purpose. There has been a bit of a further explanation of how it will work, and yes there will be problems with it's implimentation however riders will not be placed way out of their immediate area. They won't be wobblers, but riders who are very capable and who are deemed to be worthy of fast tracking, to see if they can be brought on quicker. It's worth a try, but I really don't see better suggestions from the floor to improve on it. At least it can help many problems at the same time, which must be a first. Edited November 18, 2013 by Tsunami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 The riders in question will stay at reserve all season, but I don't think they will get new averages based on these equal ability races. So if they improve and their average increases to above a teams original number 2 who was a 4 pointer for example, they will stay at reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 So if they improve and their average increases to above a teams original number 2 who was a 4 pointer for example, they will stay at reserve. Yep, already been said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) On the other hand it doesn't make him any less of an expert than you. Unless you have a crystal ball I am not sure why your opinions which you have set out so dogmatically should carry any more weight than Tai's, Because after carefully trouble-shooting this scheme, I've shown in several posts on this thread (along with quite a few other sceptics) how difficult (if not impossible) by mid-season it's going to be drumming up 20 young Brits to fill all the reserves places without doing all of the following ... 1. grading young Brits already in the Elite League like Kyle Howarth and Ashley Birks whose development will then actually be slowed down by now having a softer race schedule than they've already coped with while achieving a proper average at this level 2. grading not-so-young Brits already in the Elite League like Josh Auty and Richard Lawson who are on the borderline of getting a top-5 place in 2014 ... again, such a grading will given them a softer race schedule than they've already coped with 3. trusting that every potential National League candidate for one of these places is going to be able to commit to the full 36-meeting Elite League season ... this isn't just a question of being able to afford to ride all these meetings as it's also a question of how much this will affect these riders' jobs outside speedway ... I suspect at least a couple of the possible candidates will reluctantly say "no thanks" because the commitment's too great regardless of their ambitions to improve. 4. using riders who've already had multiple chances to hold down reserve places in the Premier League and haven't done so ... what's the point of them proving they certainly can't cope with the same task at an even higher level than the one at which they've already struggled ? !! 5. using riders who've maybe only had one or two chances so far at holding down a reserve place in the Premier League but looked so well short of that standard that no other Premier League teams are seriously considering given them another go and most importantly of all, given that speedway riders get injured ... 6. realizing you need either a pool of around 26 such riders instead of the basic 20 to keep each team fully supplied once crashes start to take their toll ... or accept it'll soon boil down to the remaining fit riders from the original 20 getting guest bookings galore which will make another mockery of the league as the best of these reserves regularly end up riding for 3 or 4 teams in the same week. As I've mentioned in an earlier post, once you logically study how this project's likely to pan out over a whole season, it might be workable having the "graded young Brit" as one of the reserves while keeping the traditional format of averages and any nationality for the other reserve ... then, there's a fair chance of there being enough young Brits of a worthwhile-enough potential to keep the total of 10 graded reserve places ticking along. But this project requiring 20 graded young Brits is ridiculously over-ambitious due to all the difficulties I've explained above. I look forward to E I Addio (or anyone else) coming up with a list of 20 riders (preferably mid-20's to allow for injuries) who'll genuinely be able (rather than simply eligible) to take part in this project ... it's easy for the BSPA to design this project over their conference table, far harder for them to actually run it for a whole season without it disintegrating. Edited November 18, 2013 by arthur cross 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 I read on one site today that the lads from the NL with ride against one reserve race and one race against the lower order of the opposite team. So it looks like one race between 6/7 and one between 6/7 and 4/5 so that race should give them a bit of competion to strive for without facing the top order boys. Only real problem for the NL lads is where does the money come from to help them get their bike tuned well enogh to compete at that little bit extra that they can get from their machines. I am sure most of them run on a vey tight shoestring budget and any extra cost to them will be vey hard to come by. I just hope that the teams they ride for give them all the support they will need to be competative in the EL. It could turn out quite well if things are done properly. I read on one site today that the lads from the NL with ride against one reserve race and one race against the lower order of the opposite team. So it looks like one race between 6/7 and one between 6/7 and 4/5 so that race should give them a bit of competion to strive for without facing the top order boys. Only real problem for the NL lads is where does the money come from to help them get their bike tuned well enogh to compete at that little bit extra that they can get from their machines. I am sure most of them run on a vey tight shoestring budget and any extra cost to them will be vey hard to come by. I just hope that the teams they ride for give them all the support they will need to be competative in the EL. It could turn out quite well if things are done properly. I think you may find it is two races between the reserves and two with a second string rider against the same from the opposition. That would give the reserves 4 rides as now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Anyone who thinks this decision about the reserves was to aid their development is deluded.... They are being used as a tool to cut costs pure and simple. It would be a travesty should Kings Lynn not get Lambert and Kerr.... I just can't see how the Bspa can allocate clubs assets or those that they've helped develop for years to another club?? It's like going to work, doing a cracking job and your company director punching your lights out.... Say Belle Vue get Lewis Kerr, why the hell should the lad have to travel to travel every week, costing him a fortune when his local track is round the corner.... It's a whitewash I think He is allowed to opt out. I read on one site today that the lads from the NL with ride against one reserve race and one race against the lower order of the opposite team. So it looks like one race between 6/7 and one between 6/7 and 4/5 so that race should give them a bit of competion to strive for without facing the top order boys. Only real problem for the NL lads is where does the money come from to help them get their bike tuned well enogh to compete at that little bit extra that they can get from their machines. I am sure most of them run on a vey tight shoestring budget and any extra cost to them will be vey hard to come by. I just hope that the teams they ride for give them all the support they will need to be competative in the EL. It could turn out quite well if things are done properly. There are two reserves races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Anyone who thinks this decision about the reserves was to aid their development is deluded.... They are being used as a tool to cut costs pure and simple. Of course they are, but what is the alternative? Quite possibly no television money coming to a league that was already over-extending itself, and even the sugar daddies (or should that be a sugar frosty?) deciding to pull teams out. Something has to give if professional speedway is going to have any sort of existence in future, and at least drafting in upcoming riders with protected heats is more positive than nonsenses like double point rides and the like. As I said, I suspect we'll end-up disappointed by the detail, and of course Poole will invariably find a way to replace one of their reserves with a 10-point foreigner within a month of the season starting, but that's the speedway we've come to know and love... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 So if they improve and their average increases to above a teams original number 2 who was a 4 pointer for example, they will stay at reserve.Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 ... it's easy for the BSPA to design this project over their conference table, far harder for them to actually run it for a whole season without it disintegrating. It's never stopped these idiots in the past. They will probably just forget this very worthy aspiration half way through the season and go back to training Polish and Danish youngsters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 I think the BSPA press office official who made the BSPA statement should be sacked immediately. There is no mention of restricted races for reserves or any detail of how it will work in the BSPA statement, obviously they are going to drip feed information. Surely the thought must have crossed the idiot's mind that the statement issued would cause an uproar amongst fans who would post lot's of speculation on how it would work, upset many, and end up with fans not knowing what was true and what was rumour. A major PR disaster. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 These cost cutting measures pretty much mimic every other similar move going back almost 30 years. In 1986 an untried junior had to be used at number 7 by all first division teams. This lasted a couple years In 1993 the eighteen heat format had double reserve races and 'protected' races for the two Reserve League riders that had to be used. It lasted just the one year. All these moves were just about cost cutting exercises. Back then it was about reducing the wage bill to just six 'proper' riders. I find it wonderful that Jon Cook has been able to mock this up as a bright new future for fast tracking the best of the youth. Such is the wonder of good 'spin'. Now we are down to just being able to pay for five full wages. So we have a semi-professional EIite League. Where the reserves stay reserves all year, on a pittance. Won't the best showing guys in these berths want to go to the Premier League to earn some real money. Just as soon as they can? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 I think the BSPA press office official who made the BSPA statement should be sacked immediately. There is no mention of restricted races for reserves or any detail of how it will work in the BSPA statement, obviously they are going to drip feed information. Surely the thought must have crossed the idiot's mind that the statement issued would cause an uproar amongst fans who would post lot's of speculation on how it would work, upset many, and end up with fans not knowing what was true and what was rumour. A major PR disaster. I think it more likely it was hurriedly knocked-up on Sunday night when the conference finished. Fans used to moan when no information was released for ages, and then the promoters all leaked snippets of information in the meantime, so at least this is some improvement over the olden days. Would agree the press release is rather terse, but there is at least something to go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 So we have a semi-professional EIite League. Where the reserves stay reserves all year, on a pittance. Won't the best showing guys in these berths want to go to the Premier League to earn some real money. Just as soon as they can? It defies logic doesn't it! I think all British reserves is a great idea, but the way they are going about it defies logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspman Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 So what is elite about this ,one top rider 4 premier riders and 2 national league riders.hope the cost to get in will be £10 anymore and someone is having a laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmuffe Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 These cost cutting measures pretty much mimic every other similar move going back almost 30 years. In 1986 an untried junior had to be used at number 7 by all first division teams. This lasted a couple years In 1993 the eighteen heat format had double reserve races and 'protected' races for the two Reserve League riders that had to be used. It lasted just the one year. All these moves were just about cost cutting exercises. Back then it was about reducing the wage bill to just six 'proper' riders. I find it wonderful that Jon Cook has been able to mock this up as a bright new future for fast tracking the best of the youth. Such is the wonder of good 'spin'. Now we are down to just being able to pay for five full wages. So we have a semi-professional EIite League. Where the reserves stay reserves all year, on a pittance. Won't the best showing guys in these berths want to go to the Premier League to earn some real money. Just as soon as they can? Apparently on the new conversion rate to be announced that will be able to ride at 7 in a PL club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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