British Speedway Promoters Meeting

[Gearhead]

The promoters are offering what they can afford to offer. Being a promoter means that they are taking the risks! The new set-up can help British riders, lessen the dependence on foreign riders and hopefully mean that everyone can afford to carry on. They might not be offering what YOU want, but I wan't to give it a fair go. Trying to blackmail them by staying away won't suddenly make them wan't to risk everything on more expensive options, that's already been tried and it lead to this.

How about the promotors offering riders at the other end of the pay-scale what they can afford to,that's the area that's got them in more of a bad financial situation afterall,

[orion]

The answer is staring you in the face but if you can't work it out you'll have to wait for the rules. You won't like it of course because you won't like whatever they do, but for the moment just accept that you are completely wrong in banging on about reserves Coming out to replace a number one etc. Wait for the rules to be published then you can bang on to your hearts content about rules that actually exist instead of finding fault with rules that exist only in your imagination

I think a reserve coming out to replace a rider in the top five is a lot more likely than riders in the top five replacing each other .Even if you were correct that rule would be a lot worst

[stratton]

So Koscuich gets £100 + a point, air fares paid, a van, a mechanic to ride at reserve, but a British youngster is only worth £40 a point. Get rid of the GP riders if you want to save money, & stop pretending that this is being done to help them. Nothing against Norbi by the way, just using him as an example.

 

I totally agree the GP riders should go the sport should of been brave and tried to start again without sky. And balance the books and pay only what they can afford also this myth about helping British youngsters is total rubbish. Edited November 24, 2013 by sidney

[Gearhead]

Was just about to post something very similar. I don't know a great deal about Phil Morris, what I do know and have seen over a good few years is that he is very keen on helping youngsters make their way in Speedway. I don't believe that there is any way he would involve himself in a scheme that would hurt the development of young British riders.

 

If that pay rate is right it may not be a great payday but these are kids who generally would be riding NL at £10 per point (in theory) or PL and not earning any or much more than they are being offered. We don't yet know what the package is but the opportunity is there for a kid to make some big strides if they take advantage of it. As for upgrading to EL equipment that's not strictly true as they will be riding against the same people they would be in the NL and PL. However when the time comes to make the step up perhaps they will be better informed as to the upgrades they really need to make rather than just throwing money at stuff that won't actually make them faster.

These kids are at the sharp end of the NL and as your theory,will be riding for more than £10 a point I assure you,they'll pull in a bit of help here and there too

 

Equipment wise,you'll find these NL rides' 2 bikes sitting in the pits made up of incredibly similar set ups to the top boys,aside from some of what's inside engines-but not greatly as the area that the money all goes is in keeping things new or to as high standard as possible for as long as possible,clutch plates in machinery used in the NL/PL often have to last 2 or 3 times longer than EL when riders are on 1/3 of the money,and engines will simply have go another couple of meetings before a freshen up or rebuild

 

If promotors decide they need to try this approach to the reserve area of 6 and 7 then the £120 should be after a figure to cover their costs as previous import riders usually cost promoters anything from vans,board,flights and usually some form of guarantee etc,that's if their claiming that it's for the good of these lads

 

4 riders at every EL meeting costing promotors peanuts is a pretty low even by their standards,labelling it as "bringing on British talent",give them more of an honest figure to help them and reward them for their commitment,if if has to come from somewhere then it should be the other end,I appreciate that the whole ins and outs aren't exactly known but surely it makes sense regardless?

[seanmuffe]

Will be great if a number of clubs take up this offer - remember back in 2002 that Peterborough, Wolverhampton, Sheffield, Oxford, Newcastle, Stoke, Swindon & Rye House all did this... Can't recall if Newport did or if they were stand-alone CL back then; but over the years KL, Newport & Rye have always been good at running or hosting a third tier side alongside their 'main' side.

 

Personally if they do (EL & PL clubs entering a 'second side' that is..) I hope they consider using a different main team-name.. To me it's better all round to have that entirely separate identity - better to provoke interest locally and certainly better for those of us at other NL clubs (particularly the stand-alones) to 'spin' the League.

They'll always be people who'll accuse the NL of being a 'reserve' division otherwise, when with some imagination it can have the look & feel of a fully-fledged third division.

The example, I'm thinking needs to be followed is when Poole ran a successful NL club under te name & branding of Bournemouth Buccaneers.

Question didn't that pack up through lack of support?

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Question didn't that pack up through lack of support?

Had two seasons. I went to many Buccs meetings at Poole - always tremendous enthusiasm and good turn out. Won the League & Cup double in the first season.

Are they still going now? No. So did Matt Ford decide to pull the plug on the experiment? Yes. Does that make the Bournemouth Buccs a failure?: not in any way.

No-one suggests a top club (and let's be honest they don't come any bigger than Poole!) running an NL club should have to do it for ever but there's no doubt it's a good idea; and I'm sure people actually involved with a club like the Buccs (as I was) will tell you it was a 100% fulfilling and worthwhile experience.

[foamfence]

How about the promotors offering riders at the other end of the pay-scale what they can afford to,that's the area that's got them in more of a bad financial situation afterall,

Those riders have other options if you fail to satisfy their requirements, but the new points limit and only five places available and more fixtures all seem to be having that effect as the number or big earners is reduced.

[TMW]

You can't change anything with that attitude.

 

It's time to speak with actions, not with words. The promoters have nobody to blame but themselves.

But it's doing the same as it has been the last 10 years ..bringing in rules that will bring in less fans ...unless more fans are found speedway will be dead .this is hardly a drastic measure it's just another way of trying to save money thinking that the same numbers will still come and watch .

So what would you do? if you had a free range of the rule book.

Edited November 25, 2013 by TMW

[guitar_art]

Some questions answered hear: -

 

 

sports-radio.co.uk

 

(Click on the podcast "The speedway Tavern")

Edited November 25, 2013 by guitar_art

[Elephantman]

The answer is staring you in the face but if you can't work it out you'll have to wait for the rules. You won't like it of course because you won't like whatever they do, but for the moment just accept that you are completely wrong in banging on about reserves Coming out to replace a number one etc. Wait for the rules to be published then you can bang on to your hearts content about rules that actually exist instead of finding fault with rules that exist only in your imagination

So as I originally posted (to which you disagreed); ill thought out, half-arsed proposals made up on the hoof. As so much appears to be attached to these changes one would imagine that the full consequences of the changes had been considered and suitable regulation drawn up before going public. It is clear that even you are awaiting the rules to be cobbled together. Elite League? More like Amateurs!

[Vince]

These kids are at the sharp end of the NL and as your theory,will be riding for more than £10 a point I assure you,they'll pull in a bit of help here and there too

I know they are riding for more than £10 a point, but in theory they shouldn't be.

 

Equipment wise,you'll find these NL rides' 2 bikes sitting in the pits made up of incredibly similar set ups to the top boys,aside from some of what's inside engines-but not greatly as the area that the money all goes is in keeping things new or to as high standard as possible for as long as possible,clutch plates in machinery used in the NL/PL often have to last 2 or 3 times longer than EL when riders are on 1/3 of the money,and engines will simply have go another couple of meetings before a freshen up or rebuild

I do understand all of that and there is a huge variation in the standard of equipment in the NL and PL. However they won't need to be replacing parts as often as EL heat leaders as the riders they are against aren't of that standard and in very much the same boat they are. They also race in the NL and PL against riders who do replace these items and have equipment every bit as good as any EL rider. I would hope that there would be some decent sponsorship opportunities in the EL and that they will get help and advice with that as part of the package.

 

If promotors decide they need to try this approach to the reserve area of 6 and 7 then the £120 should be after a figure to cover their costs as previous import riders usually cost promoters anything from vans,board,flights and usually some form of guarantee etc,that's if their claiming that it's for the good of these lads

To be fair we don't know what is actually on offer here, only that somebody who said it was a guaranteed £120 and wasn't going to do it changed his mind when he got the full story.

 

4 riders at every EL meeting costing promotors peanuts is a pretty low even by their standards,labelling it as "bringing on British talent",give them more of an honest figure to help them and reward them for their commitment,if if has to come from somewhere then it should be the other end,I appreciate that the whole ins and outs aren't exactly known but surely it makes sense regardless?

My opinion is that, IF this is being done properly, they are being given an apprenticeship opportunity and those that have ambition should grab with both hands. If they get a job as an apprentice in their local garage they will get peanuts and still be expected to pay out many £1000's on building up their tools.

[E I Addio]

So as I originally posted (to which you disagreed); ill thought out, half-arsed proposals made up on the hoof. As so much appears to be attached to these changes one would imagine that the full consequences of the changes had been considered and suitable regulation drawn up before going public. It is clear that even you are awaiting the rules to be cobbled together. Elite League? More like Amateurs!

 

 

Here we go again. We have the same thing every year butt still the penny doesn't drop with some people. We have the AGM when the main structure is agreed then a few months later comes the post-AGM meeting and then the rules are published. It's not just these particular rules, so unless you have a crystal ball you don't know at this stage what the final draft of the rules will be. The season doesn't start until March so even if we were to say, for the sake of argument that the whole idea is a mess right now, what really matters is what is in force as from 1st March 2014, then you can jump up and down and stamp your feet as much as you like

I think a reserve coming out to replace a rider in the top five is a lot more likely than riders in the top five replacing each other .Even if you were correct that rule would be a lot worst

 

 

I am not saying its going to be ideal. Once you take the decision to put NL riders in an EL team there are always going to have to be compromises that reduce the overall compatibility of the competition, no doubt about that. All I am saying is there is no point in people going into overdrive and ranting about it if they don't yet fully understand how the system is going to work. Its a pity PL promoters wouldn't or couldn't have NL British reserves but we are stuck with that. Some of these things should have been started years ago and introduced more gradually but they weren't so we just have to make the best of it.

[SteveLyric2]

One of the big questions is - will the Post-AGM change it all again, if there is then a substantial TV/Sponsorship deal in place?! With a decision expected 'imminently' (according to the BSPA statement), maybe the next meeting in early December to 'allocate/draft' the NL riders, will also have a different agenda?

[Tsunami]

One of the big questions is - will the Post-AGM change it all again, if there is then a substantial TV/Sponsorship deal in place?! With a decision expected 'imminently' (according to the BSPA statement), maybe the next meeting in early December to 'allocate/draft' the NL riders, will also have a different agenda?

 

I don't think so Skidder. Unless the proposals hit major obstacles, there is a need both from a costs and development points of view to proceed with them. SKY(or TV money) money would be an extra bonus and help pay for the more expensive top 5 riders. Would just hope that the promoters don't then think they can repeat history and squander the TV money to out do each other, like the first time they got SKY money.

[Guest]

 

I don't think so Skidder. Unless the proposals hit major obstacles, there is a need both from a costs and development points of view to proceed with them. SKY(or TV money) money would be an extra bonus and help pay for the more expensive top 5 riders. Would just hope that the promoters don't then think they can repeat history and squander the TV money to out do each other, like the first time they got SKY money.

 

If a track stages a TV meeting then surely it is up to them to decide what they do with the fee they receive? Maybe a good use is for the promoter to utilise it for his benefit - that is the real objective of promoting anything surely?

The fee paid to a track should be calculated on the overall sum received during the season divided by the number of meetings then televised, with clubs paid that sum for each meeting they host.

[Tsunami]

 

If a track stages a TV meeting then surely it is up to them to decide what they do with the fee they receive? Maybe a good use is for the promoter to utilise it for his benefit - that is the real objective of promoting anything surely?

The fee paid to a track should be calculated on the overall sum received during the season divided by the number of meetings then televised, with clubs paid that sum for each meeting they host.

 

Of course it is, but the last time the EL promoters gave in to the new and higher demands of the top riders and the windfall cash that was new to the sport went to the riders not the promoters. This 'new' money needs to keep clubs afloat, to be able to promote the sport and keep tracks in business. It's not rocket science.

[Guest]

 

Of course it is, but the last time the EL promoters gave in to the new and higher demands of the top riders and the windfall cash that was new to the sport went to the riders not the promoters. This 'new' money needs to keep clubs afloat, to be able to promote the sport and keep tracks in business. It's not rocket science.

That is my feelings entirely. However, you have triggered this further thought for me: riders taking part in a TV meeting should perhaps also be paid some bonus "based on their crowd appeal" for competing in the meeting by the promoter.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Guest

[orion]

So what would you do? if you had a free range of the rule book.

Stop keeping the weakest in the league . The El should only be 8 teams ( best supported ) with a decent point limits . Setting the rules to keep the likes of Eastie in has held back the others .

[Elephantman]

Here we go again. We have the same thing every year butt still the penny doesn't drop with some people. We have the AGM when the main structure is agreed then a few months later comes the post-AGM meeting and then the rules are published. It's not just these particular rules, so unless you have a crystal ball you don't know at this stage what the final draft of the rules will be. The season doesn't start until March so even if we were to say, for the sake of argument that the whole idea is a mess right now, what really matters is what is in force as from 1st March 2014, then you can jump up and down and stamp your feet as much as you like

 

 

 

I am not saying its going to be ideal. Once you take the decision to put NL riders in an EL team there are always going to have to be compromises that reduce the overall compatibility of the competition, no doubt about that. All I am saying is there is no point in people going into overdrive and ranting about it if they don't yet fully understand how the system is going to work. Its a pity PL promoters wouldn't or couldn't have NL British reserves but we are stuck with that. Some of these things should have been started years ago and introduced more gradually but they weren't so we just have to make the best of it.

Here we go again; it is not me that has trumpeted these proposals as the "saving" of British Speedway is it? An Elite league promoter issues a press release stating, "Exciting Times Ahead" and the truth is nobody chuffing well knows do they? They don't know because all they have is a few ideas that have not been thought out; but to appease an apathetic and cynical public they have issued a press release and have hung their hat on the "Emphasis on British Youth".

 

They have banked on this approach being popular with the public when in reality they have no rules, regulations or whatever and this was just made up on the spot. They now have to go and fix this in time for the season to start; it really is a pathetic way to run a business and smacks of the short term thinking that has pervaded British Speedway for decades. If most businesses made policy in this way they'd go bankrupt; oh, British Speedway virtually is isn't it?

Edited November 25, 2013 by Elephantman

[Tsunami]

That is my feelings entirely. However, you have triggered this further thought for me: riders taking part in a TV meeting should perhaps also be paid some bonus "based on their crowd appeal" for competing in the meeting by the promoter.

I can just imagine the crowd being handed them number paddles as they enter the stadium to vote with. A bit like "Strictly come Riding".