British Speedway Promoters Meeting

[g13webb]

I belief the outrage that has been posted on here, about new ideas, is way over the top. Personally, I think the promoters have done well in the idea of bringing in young British riders. Ok , the exact details have still to be finalised, the wording in the announcement, could have been be a bit different. But Christ give them chance, they only had 3 days. I'm sure the minute details can be iron out in due course. The League doesn't start till March 2014

 

Its appears so easy, to be negative all the time, but what miserable lives you must lead.

[Arson fire]

 

Well I have followed it since 1961, but i try to give things a chance, rather than being cynical about any change every year.

If you don't do anything, you get criticised. If you try things new, you get criticised. If you copy what other more successful nations do, you are criticised. There's a trend here, OK.

Whilst all the details on the rules are not being broadcast yet, or even made at the moment, all we have to do surely is to copy what say Poland do. If the BSPA tried to do it different, I know what the critics would say. "Why reinvent it, why not just copy the Poles as it works for them, typical BSPA".

BTW, we are not just talking NL riders, that has already been clarified by John Cook in his interview on the SGP site, so it won't be wobblies, but capable riders in the midst of the better riders. Think kids at a football club going with to matches, or training with the first team, same principles. How did Richie W get on so well at Newcastle. He worshiped Robbo, and was advised how to ride and set up by the likes of both Robbo and Mark.

In the case of the Darryl and Sharron Boocock Sponsorship trip to OZ. Young riders who want to go, make it known and from that list those who understand the committment, and can help pay their way with flights, get invited to go. Obviously riders over a certain age, or past their best, would not get the nod. Notice the ones that have gone have been usually the best of the best that want to go.

Yes, the point would be to go NL to PL then EL, but there has to be allied parallel events to help riders along the way. Bridger went from CL to EL so it can be done depending on attitude, ability and sponsorship. As you know I am heavily involved, both financially and with my time, in youth development. I regularly attend training schools with my riders that I take, and I see many others who are trying to make their way. It gives great pleasure to see the committment that folks like you don't see, seeing riders getting better every time I see them. Liam Carr, Max Clegg, Josh Bates, Danny Phillips, Luke Crang, Kyle Bickley, and Josh, making great strides and in all the cases, except Kyle, all riding for teams in either PL, NL or NDL. It is going on funnelling them into the British Youth Championships and starting to produce plenty of riders to stock British teams in the near future.

Now the BSPA are trying something new to supplement all this private enterprise, we need to get behind things instead of criticising everything that they do.

 

 

Agreed, but it would have been a greater crime if either of them had stayed as reserves, as their development was way above anybodies expectations, so it was scrapped mid season. Common sense decision.

dave I know the input you have and I also know that you are very knowledgeable and have a massive passion for the grassroots, and the sport in general... I admire people like you and take my hat off,..I don't understand the concept though of totally bypassing a level and for some being thrown in at the deep end.... You wouldn't pass your 100m badge then be in an Elite swimming team for example,or join a professional football club and get anywhere near the reserves nevermind the first team until I'd served my apprenticeship so to speak, nobody did...nearly every sport has an infer structure and a ladder you climb to the top. I agree some are better than others or develop and learn quicker... If it works great, but I can't help thinking we are setting some of them up to fail in the long run.... If the BSPA want to develop lads then why have they totally leapfrogged the PL?? That's why I'm of the opinion it boils down to money, otherwise we would have a proper development- training plan in place or scholarships and the like...

I take on board what you say, though I still think young lads are being used to save top level speedway in this country... I just hope clubs are loyal to them.

[Kester]

These couple of rule changes right or wrong are only going to please or not as seems the case the fans who already attend speedway and incase people are unsure the reason the sport is losing money is there are not enough of said fans attending .so my question is where is the vision for the future to attract new or even ex supporters to speedway

 

I agree completely. I see how this will cut costs and make speedway more sustainable for promoters, but will it bring in more fans through the door? Ultimately, EL fans will pay the same for a poorer product, so what is being done to balance that equation?

[philfromcov]

i too share the concern that they are just being used.

they will have 2 heats between themselves effective 2 heats of NL racing, not a problem.

 

Having watched a few NL meetings the gap is huge, the last thing we wont is these guys dropping half a lap behind..

[orion]

 

I agree completely. I see how this will cut costs and make speedway more sustainable for promoters, but will it bring in more fans through the door? Ultimately, EL fans will pay the same for a poorer product, so what is being done to balance that equation?

Indeed , As I keep saying another agm and another that brings in rules that will bring in less fans . No doubt they do there sums thinking that the same number of fans will turn up paying the same price .

[E I Addio]

 

A very fair point but surely it begs the question why the BSPA have decided on such a radical solution without having any idea how to actually achieve it. Do these youngsters know they will be asked to ride in the EL next year. Are any of them capable of taking up such an offer. A system of progression NL/PL/EL is a great idea but this is such a radical step that surely those expected to fulfill the BSPA aspirations should be ready to step in and fill the huge breach between the leagues.

I think fine tuning is a euphemism for sheer panic once the season draws near.

 

It's something that fans here have been advocating for years. I have blathered on about it myself here. But perhaps it is a step TOO far to expect NL kids to fill EL rosters without PL experience first.

Maybe a season where this was implemented at PL level with maybe EL a year later.

To be fair to the lemmings in charge it's not easy to produce a production liine of new talent from scratch and existing programmes are apparently helping to bring young lads on a bit. But maybe this will be too much for youngsters and be detrimental to thier progress rather than help them.

 

The idea that it is some master plan to help youngsters is of course laughable and nobody here will be fooled by it. It's to save money as it's all been frittered away on those that will dump the EL for the more lucrative leagues unless they need some laps at the end of the season like Hancock.

But the sad part is it should have BEEN a master plan with a definite idea how to achieve it and some sort of stepped progression for young riders to achieve.

We will see if this idea will work and what effect it will have on upandcoming speedway riders.

Let's hope for thier sake it does work.

I think we all back the sentiment simply are not convinced of the BSPAs commitment to it.

 

OK. To put it as succinctly as I can, it seems to me British Speedway needs to achieve three things in order to survive :-

 

1. To keep losses to a sustainable level so no more clubs go out of business. None of us have access to the accounts but with the exception of Peterborough we presume that the fact all the rest are running, suggests they all think they can make a go of it, so hopefully we are over the first hurdle, otherwise its simply no promoters= no speedway.

 

2. We need a better league programme than 28 meetings partly because experience has showed that with a mere 14 home meetings a number of fans drift off into other interests, and partly because riders like Craig Cook who don't yet have jobs abroad need to earn a decent living in the top league and not spend half their lives doubling up. We are promised 36 EL fixtures, which sounds like an improvement to me, so I would think most people are reasonably happy up to this point. Now comes the controversial bit.

 

3.There needs to be a steady supply of British riders so that in the long-term future we don't have to incur the massive cost of bringing foreign riders over, and we don't slip back to the pattern of clubs incurring massive debt as in recent years.

Personally I don't particularly want to see two NL races in an EL meeting but unlike some on here I recognise that speedway doesn't exist just for me , it exists for all fans at all clubs so if that's what it takes to achieve points 1&2 above then I'll get behind it and support it.

Of course, the devil is in the detail and their are some answered questions that need to be sorted, but personally I am not to fussed about that at this stage. Jon Cook is meeting Lakeside supporters n Friday and he will be filling in the details and answering questions. No doubt other promotions will be doing similar things in the course of time. Those who genuinely want answers can attend these things.

 

Yes ,I know it would be nice if all the implications had been published already but the reality is that the season doesn't start for another 5 months so personally I can't get too wound up about the detail at this stage. No doubt more will be revealed When Cookie delivers his discourse, on Friday,.

[john birch]

Does anyone know if doubling up has been scrapped? And if hopefully so what will the likes of Cook and Barker do now that there are 36 meetings in the Elite League. Formula should be simple - just revert to that of 1988, second reserves race in ht 14 and top scorers race tacked onto the old 13 ht formula. Anyone under 21, British and a current el average under 5.00 should be eligible. Can't see how a draft will work - why should Kings Lynn give up Lambert or Lakeside Ellis. One choice by club, the other by draft maybe. How can a rider be made to ride for someone that they don't wan't too? And what happens if two or three riders beat not only their contemporaries but also take points off the top 5 - are they eligible next year and for how long. Tai rode in the third tier is British and was still u21 when he rode in the GP. Would he still have been eligible to ride at reserve? More details please!

[mikebv]

Why would it take out four wages?The NL boys could be in demand so could get a higher points money.And at the end of the day there will always be the same amount of points up for grabs in a match.At present teams have to be paid on 90pts in a match regardless of who rides for who.The only way to bring costs down is to pay less per point.

 

 

If, for example, charles wright and steve worrall represent belle vue then I would be amazed if their terms combined was 30% what dryml got on his own for riding at reserve last year..

 

If all they do is race against each other then I cannot see a massive difference points money wise from their NL deals....

 

"Good for your development", "A great opportunity to share the pits alongside world class talent and learn from them" etc etc etc will I am sure be the promoters mantra....

 

There will always be the promoter who will try and 'tap up' the best with big money, (a 'guaranteed' 10 -2 over the two heats could prove decisive?) however if the 'draft' is done with complete integrity then the new look teams should save a fortune versus previous years...

 

(and we may even get the odd brit making dramatic improvements)....

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2013 by mikebv

[The White Knight]

Well - I have read the Announcement - and that is what it was put out there for, so that we could read it. Why do the BSPA bring out an Announcement that is not complete - it's just plain silly. I read and digested their Statement, I then read and digested Jon Cooke's Statement where a little bit more information dribbled out.

 

Question:

 

Why on earth can the BSPA not wait until they have ALL the facts and implications of what they are doing, and only THEN produce a Statement for us, the Public, to digest?

 

I applaud the attempt to bring on British Riders, I think that is a great idea. I do though think that the WAY that they have done it is not well enough thought through - not least the availability and ability of at the very least twenty Riders. With injuries that number could rise to THIRTY Riders required. That is not so far fetched as it sounds. These young Lads will be coming out to ride in front of big (for them) crowds. Naturally they will want to impress. This will possibly lead to over riding by some and, consequently accidents. There will be accidents anyway sadly - that is the nature of our Sport.

 

Nobody, least of all me, wants to see any more injuries in our Sport - we want less, not more - it seems that the way this is being implemented will not help on that particular front.

 

This should have been done through a logical progression. ie. National League to Premier League THIS new Season and then National League to Premier League and from Premier League to Elite League possibly the year after. THAT would give these young Riders a chance to acclimatise themselves to a different and tougher environment.

 

As it is - I get the feeling that they are being chucked in at the deep end to either sink or swim. Why? Because it is the CHEAP option to save the Elite League.

 

If I am proved wrong, I will admit it, but, sadly I don't think I will be.

[Tsunami]

dave I know the input you have and I also know that you are very knowledgeable and have a massive passion for the grassroots, and the sport in general... I admire people like you and take my hat off,..I don't understand the concept though of totally bypassing a level and for some being thrown in at the deep end.... You wouldn't pass your 100m badge then be in an Elite swimming team for example,or join a professional football club and get anywhere near the reserves nevermind the first team until I'd served my apprenticeship so to speak, nobody did...nearly every sport has an infer structure and a ladder you climb to the top. I agree some are better than others or develop and learn quicker... If it works great, but I can't help thinking we are setting some of them up to fail in the long run.... If the BSPA want to develop lads then why have they totally leapfrogged the PL?? That's why I'm of the opinion it boils down to money, otherwise we would have a proper development- training plan in place or scholarships and the like...

I take on board what you say, though I still think young lads are being used to save top level speedway in this country... I just hope clubs are loyal to them.

 

I have already agreed that it is also a means helping to control EL costs, whilst at the same time they have managed to maintain a decent standard of riders and racing, which the EL supporters were worried about. They could have just dropped the team points average to say 35 and then there would have been real moans.. Unfortunately the press statement is all wrong and it will not be NL riders versus EL riders. The 20 will be hand picked and the best NL, together with the emerging young PL riders, will be used to share the stage with the top riders. That does not stop riders like Kerr staying and riding their way through the PL. Every eventuality covered so whats the problem. As others have said, 5 months to go to sort things out. My only problem is that there may not be enough riders to cover once the season and the injuries start.

[Hamish McRaker]

What I suspect (and hope), is they have had to state the reserves should be "NL riders" to avoid getting into trouble with EU Employment Laws.

The definition of "NL rider" will, I expect, be a wide one, and include any rider who has ever ridden in NL, BUT with exclusions based on age limit and established PL average (eg. under 24 and not having a PL average of over 7.50). Hopefully this will widen the potential field a bit.

Any British rider who is,say, over 24 and has earned a PL average over 7.50 would be expected to occupy a 1-5 EL team place.

 

The problems are going to be for some NL/lower PL level guys being unable to combine midweek racing dates with work; and what are the doubling-up (and even trebling-up) rules going to be? Unless the EL-bound guys can ride PL too, that will just result in the PL being too full of lower-grade foreigners again.

 

Also, the AGM statement was notable for the asbsence (unless I missed something) of statements about the NL. How many will be running?

I'd also expect that one or two tracks suppposedly running in 2014 per the AGM statement, don't actually operate.

[The White Knight]

What I suspect (and hope), is they have had to state the reserves should be "NL riders" to avoid getting into trouble with EU Employment Laws.

The definition of "NL rider" will, I expect, be a wide one, and include any rider who has ever ridden in NL, BUT with exclusions based on age limit and established PL average (eg. under 24 and not having a PL average of over 7.50). Hopefully this will widen the potential field a bit.

Any British rider who is,say, over 24 and has earned a PL average over 7.50 would be expected to occupy a 1-5 EL team place.

 

The problems are going to be for some NL/lower PL level guys being unable to combine midweek racing dates with work; and what are the doubling-up (and even trebling-up) rules going to be? Unless the EL-bound guys can ride PL too, that will just result in the PL being too full of lower-grade foreigners again.

 

Also, the AGM statement was notable for the asbsence (unless I missed something) of statements about the NL. How many will be running?

I'd also expect that one or two tracks suppposedly running in 2014 per the AGM statement, don't actually operate.

 

 

The National League has it's own AGM.

[Tsunami]

Well - I have read the Announcement - and that is what it was put out there for, so that we could read it. Why do the BSPA bring out an Announcement that is not complete - it's just plain silly. I read and digested their Statement, I then read and digested Jon Cooke's Statement where a little bit more information dribbled out.

 

Question:

 

Why on earth can the BSPA not wait until they have ALL the facts and implications of what they are doing, and only THEN produce a Statement for us, the Public, to digest?

 

I applaud the attempt to bring on British Riders, I think that is a great idea. I do though think that the WAY that they have done it is not well enough thought through - not least the availability and ability of at the very least twenty Riders. With injuries that number could rise to THIRTY Riders required. That is not so far fetched as it sounds. These young Lads will be coming out to ride in front of big (for them) crowds. Naturally they will want to impress. This will possibly lead to over riding by some and, consequently accidents. There will be accidents anyway sadly - that is the nature of our Sport.

 

Nobody, least of all me, wants to see any more injuries in our Sport - we want less, not more - it seems that the way this is being implemented will not help on that particular front.

 

This should have been done through a logical progression. ie. National League to Premier League THIS new Season and then National League to Premier League and from Premier League to Elite League possibly the year after. THAT would give these young Riders a chance to acclimatise themselves to a different and tougher environment.

 

As it is - I get the feeling that they are being chucked in at the deep end to either sink or swim. Why? Because it is the CHEAP option to save the Elite League.

 

If I am proved wrong, I will admit it, but, sadly I don't think I will be.

 

And if they didn't shove something out straight away, you would be one of the first to moan about not informing the fans.

 

 

 

Never been hidden it was also to help with the costs. So what alternative would you want :-

Op 1 - Same again not doing their job, no idea what to do, not promoting,etc. Teams go bust mid season and "I told you so".

Op 2 - Reduce the points limit to say 35 and which reduces the standard of racing. "Do they think we are fools"

Op 3 - Maintain top riders and introduce some form of progression, the same as two of the biggest and successful nations are doing. Better attraction to SKY to keep them on board. "Cheap option"

 

Very difficult to win either way isn't it.

So they have copied a system popular, that works in Poland and Sweden, maintains the stars and gives youngsters a bit of a step up in addition to all the other paths available now. Moan Moan.

[The White Knight]

 

And if they didn't shove something out straight away, you would be one of the first to moan about not informing the fans.

 

 

 

Never been hidden it was also to help with the costs. So what alternative would you want :-

Op 1 - Same again not doing their job, no idea what to do, not promoting,etc. Teams go bust mid season and "I told you so".

Op 2 - Reduce the points limit to say 35 and which reduces the standard of racing. "Do they think we are fools"

Op 3 - Maintain top riders and introduce some form of progression, the same as two of the biggest and successful nations are doing. Better attraction to SKY to keep them on board. "Cheap option"

 

Very difficult to win either way isn't it.

So they have copied a system popular, that works in Poland and Sweden, maintains the stars and gives youngsters a bit of a step up in addition to all the other paths available now. Moan Moan.

 

 

We shall see.

[Hamish McRaker]

 

 

The National League has it's own AGM.

Cheers WK - sounds daft to have a separate AGM for NL but must be some rationale!

[The White Knight]

Cheers WK - sounds daft to have a separate AGM for NL but must be some rationale!

 

 

I guess there must be. I just don't know why myself.

 

Anyone help?

[TMW]

Anyone who thinks this decision about the reserves was to aid their development is deluded.... They are being used as a tool to cut costs pure and simple.

 

It would be a travesty should Kings Lynn not get Lambert and Kerr.... I just can't see how the Bspa can allocate clubs assets or those that they've helped develop for years to another club??

 

It's like going to work, doing a cracking job and your company director punching your lights out....

 

Say Belle Vue get Lewis Kerr, why the hell should the lad have to travel to travel every week, costing him a fortune when his local track is round the corner.... It's a whitewash I think

It could be to even things out. Maybe some of the EL teams just don't have the home grown talent, yet!!!so for this season and possibly next teams will be allocated riders then in subsequent years they will have to develop their own. KL have the pick of the YS. Wolves have the pick of Dudley, Cov have the Storm and Birmingham could maybe make a pair out of the 2 but where would Lakeside, for example, draw from? This needs to be taken in the wider context not just the here and now. You need to give things time to work. I would be interested in weather the experiment stands the test of time. I hope it does. You'd think that the sharing out of riders would be done sensibly. It will be interesting to see what the riders 'on the list' think

Edited November 18, 2013 by TMW

[foamfence]

It could be to even things out. Maybe some of the EL teams just don't have the home grown talent, yet!!!so for this season and possibly next teams will be allocated riders then in subsequent years they will have to develop their own. KL have the pick of the YS. Wolves have the pick of Dudley, Cov have the Storm and Birmingham could maybe make a pair out of the 2 but where would Lakeside, for example, draw from? This needs to be taken in the wider context not just the here and now. You need to give things time to work. I would be interested in weather the experiment stands the test of time. I hope it does. You'd think that the sharing out of riders would be done sensibly. It will be interesting to see what the riders 'on the list' think

The riders (who agree to take part) are allocated to the teams, the clubs don't go searching for them.

[seanmuffe]

but kerr travels to newcastle each sunday doesnt that potentially cost him?

 

maybe he doesn't work sundays

[milky]

Don,t care what the bspa call it or how they word it, I wont be going to watch, what is meant to be the top league to watch, 5 riders with averages adding up to 32, and two nl riders. Sorry but a premier league team would be able to beat that sort of team.