British Speedway Promoters Meeting

[SteveEvans]

 

It they weren't scoring and the were uncommitted couldn't promoters just do this anyway?

Perhaps. But I think the theory is here is cut out expensive travel costs for low scoring foreign imports and keep the spots more for riders who are truly committed to the league. Cost cutting is a big factor here but its better to do it this way than to do a blanket reduction at the top. JMO.

[500cc]

 

The 20 NL riders I am hearing will go into a draft where each team get to pick in a designated order. If its based on what we do in USA then the clubwho finished last year get to pick the first rider, while Poole would get 10th pick. Not sure if order reverses for 11th.

 

The allocation of these 20 riders could be key in determining where the title may end up.

 

Although a great opportunity for youngsters, that is quite a change to designate where a rider must ride. The US sports system basically dictates where a college sportsman plays his professional sport. Even in the US it isn't unheard for a player to refuse to go to the team that drafted him, instead (for example) playing in Europe and effectively forcing a trade. Not sure any of our UK professional sports force a player to go to a team they don't want to. Not sure if teenage speedway riders is necessarily the time to buck the trend !!!

 

Therefore, I'd be surprised if it was a draft in the typical US style.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Need to be geography taken into account. Young riders at NL level have jobs and/or college (as part of apprenticeships for example) and find taking time off problematical enough... Being 'drafted' into a midweek EL side 150 miles away from where they live would hardly help!!

[AlanF]

Although a great opportunity for youngsters, that is quite a change to designate where a rider must ride. The US sports system basically dictates where a college sportsman plays his professional sport. Even in the US it isn't unheard for a player to refuse to go to the team that drafted him, instead (for example) playing in Europe and effectively forcing a trade. Not sure any of our UK professional sports force a player to go to a team they don't want to. Not sure if teenage speedway riders is necessarily the time to buck the trend !!!

 

Therefore, I'd be surprised if it was a draft in the typical US style.

I

 

Interesting to see if a rider becomes an asset when he is allocated to you. I'm sure there are a lot of details to this. If you already have an asset (eg Adam Ellis) he would probably be protected and be allocated to you. Presumably Leicester and Eastbourne will not be allowed to choose a rider who already rides for a Saturday night PL team. I said earlier, I think it is the NL teams that will get the short end of the stick. Again, using Adam Ellis as an example, if he is riding for Lakeside in the EL and Ipswich in the PL, I'm sure he isn't going to want to go to the Isle of Wight on a Tuesday unless they are making it financially worthwhile.

[orion]

The biggest joke about this crazy and mad rule is the loopholes that it will lead to ...People will be cheating all over the place ,also can't wait to team have to run rr . Not sure who is worst the people who brought this cow pat of a rule in or the people who on here think it's a good idea .

[skthecat]

In answer to "castrolargh", yes we want incresed chances for Brits at reserve but the justifiable negativity this evening is because this is going to mean offering too many chances to Brits who've already shown they can barely cut it in the Premier League !!

 

I've no reason to doubt how Phil The Ace has arrived at his 10 A-graders and 10 B-graders but doesn't that prove how daft this system's going to be.

 

At least half those B-graders have never yet looked like hanging on to a Premier League reserve berth for any length of time ... now we're expecting them to put on some sort of show in the Elite League and develop their careers without having their confidence obliterated by trying to compete at a level way beyond their current ability (and in plenty of cases, way beyond the level they can ever hope to reach during their career).

 

As I mentioned earlier, allowing for injuries you really need a pool of about 26 graded riders unless you let just those top 20 have umpteen guest bookings ... I dread to think who would be Phil The Ace's standby riders given some of the names he had to dredge up for that B-list.

In all fairness, reserves in rhe premier league the last few years, mostly have been riding against the trades description act in as far as unless the reserves have been capable of scoring like a 4th heat leader in disguise, they get sacked quicker than it take to shake shale off a used tear-off!!

At least this way, they will be proper reserves, and may get decent runs as apposed to being dumped after 3/4 meetings if they aint scoring 9/10/11 points from 5+ rides!!!!!

[SteveEvans]

Although a great opportunity for youngsters, that is quite a change to designate where a rider must ride. The US sports system basically dictates where a college sportsman plays his professional sport. Even in the US it isn't unheard for a player to refuse to go to the team that drafted him, instead (for example) playing in Europe and effectively forcing a trade. Not sure any of our UK professional sports force a player to go to a team they don't want to. Not sure if teenage speedway riders is necessarily the time to buck the trend !!!

 

Therefore, I'd be surprised if it was a draft in the typical US style.

You could well be right. I think the principal of this idea is to keep costs down - my first when I heard the 2 NL Brits at reserve rule was a club like Poole could essentially pay silly money to the best two. Perhaps there will be some flexibility so riders where they can end up with their parent club while equally not allowing anyone to get two of the best available.

[skthecat]

 

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But the fact is the Premier League (while being a pretty good product in itself) hasn't done nearly enough to bring on new British talent. There are far too many third-rate foreigners earning easy money in the league and British riders seem to reach a certain level and sink into a comfort zone. Sure, Woffinden came through the PL, but where are the other British riders (Bomber excepted) capable of challenging for a GP place? Progress for British riders is painfully slow compared to the Scandinavian countries, Kyle Howarth, Ashley Birks and others are good lads, but shouldn't they be regularly winning EL races by now?

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like the PL, but in reality it's a stand-alone, semi-pro league that hasn't been about rider development for many years.

 

Putting two and two together (and probably making five) I suspect the EL promoters are deliberately easing the PL to one side with the aim of using the NL as a direct source of home-grown and (hopefully) cheaper talent.

 

Without knowing what the heat formula will be and exactly how riders will be allocated it's hard to predict how this will turn out, but if it does bring on young British riders and maybe reduce the need for guest reserves then I can't see the problem.

 

And, of course, Terry Russell can now go to Sky and tell them an agreement has been reached which will keep Tai, Darcy, Chris, Niels and so on, in British racing, while the brightest British talent will be fast-tracked into the league - TV loves that kind of stuff.

I totally agree with you conkers, the premier league is not a training aid for the EL its a seperate animal with its own agenda when winning is at stake, sod the nl riders, grab a psuedo reserve or johnny foreigner...

[screm]

Its great to see the BSPA actually doing something to help young British rider, though IMO it might be a case of running before they can walk as your asking some riders to take to big a step in some cases.Might have been better to use the NL riders at reserve rule in the PL and have GB riders from the PL in reserve positions in the EL.Sure it will benefit some teams, for example if Kings Lynn have Kerr & Lambert as their reserves then they have a strong pairing and being local riders you`d think they would be both keen to race for the Stars.

What happens when a 1-5 rider gets injured or is racing elsewhere and whatever team has to go with r/r,might need looking at IMO.

 

I'm sure there`ll be a more detailed statement in the next few days but I take it we still have to suffer the ridiculous black`n` white tactical rule as well as the guest facility which is always open to abuse.

 

One positive thing is there's still a full quota of PL teams but in terms of the PL if there's nothing broken then why fix it.

 

Saddest news in all this though is the possible demise of speedway at Peterborough, good track, great facilities, it would be a crying shame is speedway wasn't to continue at The Showground, here's hoping someone out there fancies taking over.

[jimmy jimmy]

What the promoters are doing is recreating what the Poles did a few years ago, and now they have half the field in the world u21. Yet people come on here and moan about watered down product. Watered down from what exactly? Teams where the only British involvement was the name of the team?

 

This now gives British riders the opportunity to race in the top league in this country. It gives them the starting point to then develop further in the PL, which has become a dumping ground for European journeyman speedway riders and not a development league for up and coming British riders. The top riders can still be accommodated, and apart from Emil and Hampel, who really is missing that you would want to see on a week to week basis?

 

The only thing that will drive these guys away is an increase to 36 meetings, but more regular speedway that is what we wanted wasn't it? Or should we blindly expect all the top guys to ride twice as often for half the money because "we" deserve it. Now everyone are going to pick their meetings this year, because they don't want to watch the young Brits anymore, they want their European journeymen and guests back.

 

What we need is a league that breeds UK equivalents of Dudek, Sayfutdinov, etc, and this is a step in the right direction.

[foamfence]

What the promoters are doing is recreating what the Poles did a few years ago, and now they have half the field in the world u21. Yet people come on here and moan about watered down product. Watered down from what exactly? Teams where the only British involvement was the name of the team?

 

This now gives British riders the opportunity to race in the top league in this country. It gives them the starting point to then develop further in the PL, which has become a dumping ground for European journeyman speedway riders and not a development league for up and coming British riders. The top riders can still be accommodated, and apart from Emil and Hampel, who really is missing that you would want to see on a week to week basis?

 

The only thing that will drive these guys away is an increase to 36 meetings, but more regular speedway that is what we wanted wasn't it? Or should we blindly expect all the top guys to ride twice as often for half the money because "we" deserve it. Now everyone are going to pick their meetings this year, because they don't want to watch the young Brits anymore, they want their European journeymen and guests back.

 

What we need is a league that breeds UK equivalents of Dudek, Sayfutdinov, etc, and this is a step in the right direction.

Exactly right! There was going to be much moaning whatever came out of the conference.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

The biggest joke about this crazy and mad rule is the loopholes that it will lead to ...People will be cheating all over the place ,also can't wait to team have to run rr . Not sure who is worst the people who brought this cow pat of a rule in or the people who on here think it's a good idea .

and that is why I threw in the post about Cam Heeps.

 

He is no longer Brit elligible but technically fits the criteria (or at least the outline provided) so when a club finds itself with a gap for their A grade reserve do you think they will be happy accepting the replacement who is currently at No30 in the NL averages??

[oldace]

So the points reserve used to score just disappear? There 95 points in a meeting on average (about 5 bonus points scored on average). That will still be the case.

 

 

100 actually. Statistically two thirds of heats have bonus points and it tends out around that over the 15 heats over a season

[clambo71]

As always 'a big winter of change for the future of the sport' ends up as badly thought out minimal tweaks. Nothing changes, really its business as usual (except regretably PBoro), but with a de-valued EL product year on year. Yet we as paying EL customers bear the brunt of the problems by paying the same for less. Makes no sense to pay to see NL riders getting lapped as they wont just be racing in a couple of ring fenced races, they will have to do TS and RR rides also, in reality. There may be 20 NL riders at the start of the season, but if they are riding in all 3 leagues that could drop to less than 10 by mid season due to the increased risk of injury. What happens then, do we bring in lower quality NL riders that will get lapped twice!

 

And .. all the PL promotors moaning about buying an air fence, low crowds,etc are quite happy with the business model then as technically there are no real changes in the PL?

 

As a Lakeside fan, i will only cherry pick the better meetings as the season develops, unless entry fees drop more in line with PL tracks.

elite league prices are in line with most PL prices.

[Phil The Ace]

Well after of thought about this years AGM since the press release I've decided that this was a good AGM and the league next year should be the closest it's been for a while giving the likes of us and eastbourne a more level playing field. But this depends on how fair the draft pick/allocation is functioned.

 

They went into the AGM needing to cut costs, ie loosing top go riders and try and get more meetings with lesser riders. Well with the structure they have laid out they have cut cost while managing to give clubs the option of signing the top boys. Add to that an extra 8 meetings more if you get in the playa offs. So a big thumbs up from me for that.

 

The sky deal seems likely now so that's good For riders and sponsors. Although if they don't come back then they are no loss. Peterborough is different because there fans base is shocking to say the least so can't live of that.

 

Now onto the 2 reserves. There's a lot of grey area over this at the moment but for years people have all be saying get young riders at reserve and soon as they do everybody moans. WTF. I don't get it, from what I'm seeing/hearing it seems that there will be 2 reserve races and maybe 1 race with a teams 1-5. For me this is good for them. Just being around the likes of ward,holder,NKI,tai etc is just brilliant experience for them. The sets ups they will Lear and the advice they will get from these top boys is irreplaceable. And if sky are back the extra sponsor they will gain will help maintain the maintenance of there equipment. But us fans are not to put to much pressure on these riders. We as fans have a big part to play in there development. But this wil only work if it's don fairly. I understand that Ellis should b at lakeside as they have spent money on him for his development so why shouldn't they hope to be given him. No problem at all with me. I have no problem if kings Lynn get Kerr and lambert because again they have helped and spent money on there development. Maybe it will be allocated due to logistics. I wouldn't mind young local lads in the team.

 

So all in all I'm a happy fan and think we can put together a decent team an challenge for honours so now David Chris George and Jason it's upto you.

[500cc]

It's good to see a proper fixture list. 2 Home and 2 Away.

 

I'm sure though, very soon we'll hear from riders who object to that level of commitment. Fortunately the new points limit doesn't require a team to employ riders from the category where we will hear the discontent from.

 

I'm a MASSIVE believer in getting more Brits into the EL, and have argued before you need to take one step back to take two steps forward in this area. But even I fear this has gone to the extreme. Depends what really happens, but it shouldn't be NL directly to EL.

 

The fact it's a money cutting exercise under the guise of British development tells you everything you need to know. But at least the exercise involves British rider development. Hopefully all the mistakes in this process (there will be many as loopholes are encountered) actually turn out to enhance this for those youngsters.

[AlanF]

What happens if a youngster is allocated to a club and cannot agree terms? Surely for this to work there has to be a fixed pay scale so they cannot earn more by going elsewhere? what happens if you want to replace one of them or they get injured? Do you get free choice of any unallocated qualified riders?

[Jonny the spud]

I'm happy with the decision. It will mean a lot of personal investment and bank loans to further my sons career but if it helps him become a better rider and Britains speedway in years to come it'll be worth it .... Now can those sponsors who threw money at foreign journeymen be tempted to help out the Brits ?

[Guest]

I'm happy with the decision. It will mean a lot of personal investment and bank loans to further my sons career but if it helps him become a better rider and Britains speedway in years to come it'll be worth it .... Now can those sponsors who threw money at foreign journeymen be tempted to help out the Brits ?

 

I doubt it if the 'foreign journeymen' are from the same country as the sponsor.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Guest

[Woz01]

PL riders under a certain limit will also be included in the 'draft'.