British Speedway Promoters Meeting

[AlanF]

I'm afraid you have not thought it through, you could have a 21 points limit with 7 riders all on 3 points, but by the end of the year some would still be on 3 and some would be on 9 points or more and some in the middle. The new 9 pointers would be asking for 9 pointer heat leader money and certainly more than the 3 pointers. Will the promoters say to them, you can't be paid more because you are only a 3 pointer Conference rider who just happens to be a heat leader because the League has been weakened so much.

 

The promoters need protecting from themselves. Whatever the points limit, they have to be prepared to say no to riders who want more than can be afforded. If they pay a 7 point rider who would be a #1 in a watered down league what they are paying today's #1 then they deserve to go out of business.

[The White Knight]

I only hope that some of the warnings have been taken on board, and that a cohesive package for the future of Speedway has been agreed at the AGM.

[Jonny the spud]

I just saw on twitter a 44 point limit, 2 brits per team and no black and white helmet tactical ride.

 

I got all excited then realised it was someone's wish list.

[The White Knight]

I just saw on twitter a 44 point limit, 2 brits per team and no black and white helmet tactical ride.

 

I got all excited then realised it was someone's wish list.

 

 

Yeah!!! - Mine.

[thommo34]

I can't help but think that if the points limit is to be reduced, they should also reduce teams to be 6 man teams. That would reduce costs and reduce the number of doubling up (or down) riders.

[Cockney Rebel]

The BSPA have decided that they are trying to sell a product, the product is called speedway. They have to sell the product to their customers (there called Fans). Having consulted many large successful businesses for advice, they have decided to package their product on what their customers (Fans) actually want. What our customers want, said a BSPA spokesperson, can easily be found from various web sites and the trade magazine Speedway Star. The spokesman said "I know this is a "Thinking Out Of The Box", idea, but if we give the customers what they are asking for, we have a good chance of more of them actually paying to buy the product.

An absolutely admirable aim. Unfortunately not all fans want the same thing. Just reading through this thread we have people who won't go if they can't see the stars of the sport cos they think that watching riders of a lower but equal standard doesn't make for good racing. No I don't understand that either. We then have others who say we can do without the big names cos they're too expensive. Someone thinks that Speedway is only worth a tenner, but without massive sponsorship, you really could only afford the National League riders at that cost. So while we all complain that the promoters can never agree on anything, neither can most of the fans. As I've said before there is no easy solution and whatever the promoters come up some fans won't like it. So do those fans say " Well I don't like it but I'll carry on going for the good of the sport" or do they go into a sulk and say " I'm not going anymore cos they didn't do what I wanted them to"? The choice of whether you carry on watching speedway is your's and your's alone. If YOU don't go because you don't like some of the decisions they make, remember there will be someone else who thinks "Thats a good decision. I'll carry on going"

 

As someone sort of said "You can please some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time, but you'll never please all of the people all of the time".

[TMW]

An absolutely admirable aim. Unfortunately not all fans want the same thing. Just reading through this thread we have people who won't go if they can't see the stars of the sport cos they think that watching riders of a lower but equal standard doesn't make for good racing. No I don't understand that either. We then have others who say we can do without the big names cos they're too expensive. Someone thinks that Speedway is only worth a tenner, but without massive sponsorship, you really could only afford the National League riders at that cost. So while we all complain that the promoters can never agree on anything, neither can most of the fans. As I've said before there is no easy solution and whatever the promoters come up some fans won't like it. So do those fans say " Well I don't like it but I'll carry on going for the good of the sport" or do they go into a sulk and say " I'm not going anymore cos they didn't do what I wanted them to"? The choice of whether you carry on watching speedway is your's and your's alone. If YOU don't go because you don't like some of the decisions they make, remember there will be someone else who thinks "Thats a good decision. I'll carry on going"

 

As someone sort of said "You can please some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time, but you'll never please all of the people all of the time".

You have summed it up nicely. My team are talking of going EL I'm not that keen but I will go because I have had what I've wanted and it's time for someone else, with my support.

[LagutaRacingFan]

Any idea when the statement is?

7.00 PM tonight?

[bigcatdiary]

I don't think it matters what the points limit is. At the end of the day if you want a good no.1 the goodnumber 1's are going to demand, whatever their average. The high scoring reserve who lets face it is onlyhigh scoring because they are on a false average will still demand. If they can score 12/13 on a 3.00 or 5.00 they are not a 3.00 or a 5.00 point rider simples!. It's supply and demand.Averages are massaged to suit the climate and the public are cheated something needs to be done about that aswell and the more the points are lowered the more that will go on.

Exactly

 

And those who want British U21 riders at reserve have clearly already got them signed up and scrapping the TR rule will seriously help the solid teams against top heavy sides.

 

Apologies if I sound cynical but have been involved with the sport for too long.

[moxey63]

To cut costs, make races one lap, have meetings in daylight to save energy bills, only employ riders that won't score any more than two points a match, stop the skidding on bends to keep shale on the track...

Edited November 17, 2013 by moxey63

[TheReturn]

Whatever is announced tonight will not please everyone, but people need to realise, we can not plan our sport around what Sky want, we have done that for years and look where we are now.

 

Today is hopefully the start of a long term recovery for speedway in the UK, where the sport is planned correctly with the best interests of British Speedway survival, above TV interests.

[skthecat]

At the end of the day it's down to money.

Thats why you don't find any Gareth Bales/David Beckams/Steven Gerards in football league 1/2 and lower, because theres not enough fans for those clubs, compared to Premier League, but the Prem League also has a speedwayesque problem. See above (Gareth Bale) now abroad somewhere, but you find alot of untried Inzzimaye Songo' types playing in the prem and championship..

Small fan base = low income = lower quality players, but not necessarily poor sport, poor sport can be caused by inbalanced teams..

[John Leslie]

Any idea when the statement is?

 

7.00 PM tonight?

Your "sauces" haven't even told you when the statement will be online, yet you pretend you know what's in it?

[Guest]

Any idea when the statement is?

 

7.00 PM tonight?

 

As always you are well informed! After the way you looked after the Syria Civil War crisis in General Discussions plus your revelation that this work won you a journalistic award I have every confidence in this comment re the BSPA AGM statement. I have set my alarm for 7pm.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Guest

[Tsunami]

An absolutely admirable aim. Unfortunately not all fans want the same thing. Just reading through this thread we have people who won't go if they can't see the stars of the sport cos they think that watching riders of a lower but equal standard doesn't make for good racing. No I don't understand that either. We then have others who say we can do without the big names cos they're too expensive. Someone thinks that Speedway is only worth a tenner, but without massive sponsorship, you really could only afford the National League riders at that cost. So while we all complain that the promoters can never agree on anything, neither can most of the fans. As I've said before there is no easy solution and whatever the promoters come up some fans won't like it. So do those fans say " Well I don't like it but I'll carry on going for the good of the sport" or do they go into a sulk and say " I'm not going anymore cos they didn't do what I wanted them to"? The choice of whether you carry on watching speedway is your's and your's alone. If YOU don't go because you don't like some of the decisions they make, remember there will be someone else who thinks "Thats a good decision. I'll carry on going"

 

As someone sort of said "You can please some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time, but you'll never please all of the people all of the time".

 

So true, top post on this thread.

No matter what happens, it has to be affordable, which will mean less top riders and probably more competitive racing. There will still be those who complain about anything that is agreed, and that's when promotions need to do what they think is good for them and the sport. You will NEVER EVER get ALL fans to agree on everything.(specially BSF fans)

Edited November 17, 2013 by Tsunami

[Mike.Butler]

Is simplifying the rule book out an agenda item? if not it bloody well should be!

Edited November 17, 2013 by Mike.Butler

[Tsunami]

Is simplyfying the rule book out an agenda item? if not it bloody well should be!

 

That would take about 6 months IMO.

[SCB]

This is the kind of post that makes fans look stupid.

 

The points limit has been reduced every year for the past five years, and every season less fans turn up???? Is that so?

 

OK let's check that.

 

2008 limit 38.85

2009 limit INCREASED to 39.90

2010 limit INCREASED to 40.95

2011 limit reduced to 40.00 but with an increased number of teams so effectively limit not reduced.

2012 limit INCREASED to 41.00

2013 limit INCREASED to 42.50

 

 

So if there is a correlation between points limit and dropping crowds, the correlation must be that INCREASING the points limit causes less fans to come.

Now come on, you know that apart from the 42.5 limit, all of them season the league was weakened. Theres actually a near 15% reduction in all that time. And as the limit was 38.85 in 2008 its been a 20% reduction in 6 seasons. As you point out, we gained a couple of teams in 2011 to negate some of that so it works out at about a 17% reduction in 6 seasons.

[weatherwatcher]

In all motor sport there is none other with a more level playing field equipment wise than a speedway bike you have a choice of 2 engines,2 exhaust makes, no gear boxes to worry about a choice of 3 carbs and they all race on the same fuel. The only bit that controls the changes to the bikes is the gear sprocket on the rear wheel that they alter to suit each track or track conditions and the cluch which eavery rider has his own personal settings.

So it dose not make a great big choice as say in motor GP with a choice of bikes frames engines team manifacturers etc. The choices to a speedway rider are very limited, the top lads probably have far better mechanics than lads at national level but the bikes are still the same. The other facter is that the top lads can have a choice of 4 or 4 bikes on a race night so that puts the poor humble lower league lads a bit of an unfair advantage. Plus they don't yet have that experance, skill and speeed that the likes of Tai etc have.

All in all their machines should be or should almost be identical.

Do what they did in Reanault sports car racing devolop a bike that is identical, do not allow any mods other than the rear sprocket and give them all one bike a piece ( I mean they have one identical bike apiece with no engine mods allowed).

It is then just up to the skill of the riders and not an unfair advantage of superior machines it is the rider alone that wins the race.

If people want to see the worlds top riders ovewr here then do something along the lines of premier football clubs. X amount of clubs with just the worlds to riders if that is what people wish to see.

I would rather see so good team speedway raced by even matched teams that gave first class racing. That what you are seeing now with a couple of top riders making a mad dash to the front and then a long strung out proccesion of rider that far behind that the next race is due to start before the last man finishes.

Speedway needs to have a complete rethink or all will be lost in a feqw years I am afraid

[John Leslie]

Now come on, you know that apart from the 42.5 limit, all of them season the league was weakened. Theres actually a near 15% reduction in all that time. And as the limit was 38.85 in 2008 its been a 20% reduction in 6 seasons. As you point out, we gained a couple of teams in 2011 to negate some of that so it works out at about a 17% reduction in 6 seasons.

I wasn't making any comment on the strength of the league in those years. I was merely calling out the silly statement that the points limit had reduced in each of the last 5 years, and that this had a direct relationship to crowd levels.

 

You and I both know that if all other factors remain stable, then the limit should always be approx. 42

 

However this has to be moved if other factors change. e.g. An increase or decrease in the number of teams taking part, or an increase or decrease in the number of riders wanting to ride in the EL at the terms available.

 

If more teams are coming into the EL then the limit has to be lowered to maintain the status quo, If teams are dropping out of the EL, the limit needs to be raised. If top riders are ruling themselves out by not wanting to race in the EL on the money available, then the limit has to drop, if top riders not currently racing here are willing to return on the terms available, then the limit needs to be raised.

 

The formula for setting the points limit is straight-forward.

Decide the number of competing teams, and multiply by 7.

Draw up a list of this number of riders who want to race here at economically viable terms.

Add together all these riders' averages and divide by the number of teams.

 

This gives the best average to ensure all teams start approximately equal with an even share of the riders available.

 

It doesn't matter what this figure is. It is the best figure to give a chance of equal competitive racing. And competitive racing is what is most important