British Speedway Promoters Meeting

[BWitcher]

When you get good racing and a pretty even scoreline there is nothing at all wrong with the 15 heat formula.If the racing is poor it doesn't matter if its over 1 lap ,10 laps or tag team / relay racing.Speedway will not get back on its feet until the product improves,ie the racing.Forget stadia,forget double points,forget 4 points for a large away win,we can worry about the fine details when we regularly churn out good speedway racing on a weekly basis.This is why fans have stopped going,the only way to get them back is to give them good racing,none of us agree on all the rules but this is not the reason we stop going. Speedway needs to work from the bottom up to get the core product right (THE RACING) and the rest will follow,thats what will get the fans back !

A fallacy.

[oldtimer]

Problem is you can ask 10 different customers what they want and you get 10 different answers ! For all the people who are slagging the promoters off how are they supposed to satisfy the needs of all the posters on this forum,impossible

At the moment they don't satisfy the needs of anybody, except perhaps Len Silver!

Just listened a re-run of the Alan Phillips interview on WM last night,with him saying "After the end of day one of the AGM,with the new points limit,we would have to lose three riders anyway"

So it seems fairly certain now,that the limit will either be 38 or 36,and that the 42.50 is scrapped,and they are not allowing for a new contract with Sky.

If that points limit is true, it's the death of speedway.

[TheReturn]

If that points limit is true, it's the death of speedway.

Hardly I would say it is the start of the decline. We can not plan our sport based on Sky, we need to plan our sport on surviving, and then expanding later when we can afford to.

[500cc]

Sweden can`t be too far behind Poland in the wages stakes,with the amount of top riders who ride in the country-having said that Tuesday`s are ideal for

any riders schedule.

My perception (and maybe wrongly) is that Polish speedway is bank rolled with some huge payments to riders that are way out of kilter with the general costs of that country. You ofcourse could make a similar claim about the English Premier League.

 

Sweden is interesting. I was paying £5 a pint in Stockholm is the 90's, so it feels like a much richer country. To me its a bit like where the UK was in terms of most top riders having a British team. The set-up (as you mention) is far more suited to riders. Now maybe the wages are nearer Polish one's than I realised, but I'd thought they were good rather than extraordinary. Poland rides once a week. I'd expect riders to look for other income that was worth their while.

 

If the bubble burst in Poland would the riders still get enough income from their other leagues. Would Russia be an alternative?

 

I don't know in fairness. I just get the feel at the moment the it is Poland where the big money is based (SEC also for example) and everything would change if that were no longer the case.

[LagutaRacingFan]

I'm hearing points limit is 38.50

2 Brit U21's riding at reserve

Riders will be given a 15% increase on their last averages to reflect the league strength changes.

[Marcelle]

I'm hearing points limit is 38.50

2 Brit U21's riding at reserve

Riders will be given a 15% increase on their last averages to reflect the league strength changes.

Is this just Elite league?

[500cc]

Reference riders being injured and picking and choosing their meetings.....

You cannot race a speedway bike unless you are attacking the track..

A footballer, after injury can come back on a gentle slope, last 10 mins of a game as a sub, if ok, he does last half hour next game, if still ok he may get a full second half before actually starting a game.

This cannot happen to an injured rider coming back, he may choose a lesser league match or take an invite to an individual meeting, but that really is all he can do after an injury so please cut them some slack on that issue. ..

Just for clarity on my comment I do see some slack here:

1. I don't object to an otherwise unavailable rider attempting to participate in GP qualification rounds to try and keep alive next season's dream.

2. I also don't object to a rider returning from injury, or even working through an injury and choosing leagues he will and won't ride in.

 

I do object to riders picking and choosing the country they ride in ad-hoc. This miss one, ride one syndrome is just taking advantage of the situation. You either sign yourself off the UK for a period or you ride. In the end it all returns to the attitude of riders. You could fairly easily compile a list of which riders would pick and choose the UK and which would be all in.

[G the Bee]

At the moment they don't satisfy the needs of anybody, except perhaps Len Silver!

If that points limit is true, it's the death of speedway.

 

Let's face it, the sport has been on borrowed time for years now. A direct result of having no strategic vision for the last ten years and stumbling on from agm to agm with self-interest dominating. If the sport had been managed properly we could still have the top riders over here and a healthy Elite League too. But it hasn't been and we can't have.

 

Unfortunately, the league can't keep going on the way it is.

 

This year, as I see it, the sport had two options:

 

1) To adopt a single race night model and bring back the top riders and form the kind of genuine Elite League that this country has not seen for ten years. 8 teams racing once a week. This would have been dependent on a long-term tv deal and a lot of good will amongst the promotions. It would also have meant that home meetings would only be once every two weeks (but, lets face it, we have been not far away from that this season anyway).

 

2) Plan for a league without the tv money. Get rid of the high earning riders who are streets ahead of the opposition, bring back weekly racing to each track and cut the cloth accordingly.

 

My only concern is that Tai becoming World Champion may have thrown a huge spanner in the works. We don't want to have the new British World Champion not riding over here but if Wolves field Woffinden on a nine point average with a total points limit of 38, they are going to have to make some astute signings further down the order to be remotely competitive.

[screm]

 

I'm hearing points limit is 38.50

2 Brit U21's riding at reserve

Riders will be given a 15% increase on their last averages to reflect the league strength changes.

Yes I get voices in my head to,horrible isnt it,but I dont post the messages they give me,

[philfromcov]

a 15% increase in riders averages? that means 38.50 is false and in reality its 33.5 based on this years EL averages.

[foamfence]

I'm hearing points limit is 38.50

2 Brit U21's riding at reserve

Riders will be given a 15% increase on their last averages to reflect the league strength changes.

With the 15% that would in effect be quite a bit lower than 38.50.

I hope the under 21s are allowed their true average rather than a set 3 or above.

[philfromcov]

so poole could probably just squeeze in ward and holder but would need FIVE three point riders in the team, makes you realize the extent of the cost cutting

[foamfence]

so poole could probably just squeeze in ward and holder but would need FIVE three point riders in the team, makes you realize the extent of the cost cutting

How about if they were allowed to share the number one slot? That would make things easier and if there are more fixtures they'd still be riding less than previous years.

[TMW]

Is this just Elite league?

I would have thought so. There wouldn't be enough U21's if they were to include the PL. You would need 40 odd unless they double up.

 

Has anyone heard what leagues they are all riding in?. I imagine that would be the 1st point on the agenda

Edited November 16, 2013 by TMW

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

My perception (and maybe wrongly) is that Polish speedway is bank rolled with some huge payments to riders that are way out of kilter with the general costs of that country. You ofcourse could make a similar claim about the English Premier League.

 

Sweden is interesting. I was paying £5 a pint in Stockholm is the 90's, so it feels like a much richer country. To me its a bit like where the UK was in terms of most top riders having a British team. The set-up (as you mention) is far more suited to riders. Now maybe the wages are nearer Polish one's than I realised, but I'd thought they were good rather than extraordinary. Poland rides once a week. I'd expect riders to look for other income that was worth their while.

 

If the bubble burst in Poland would the riders still get enough income from their other leagues. Would Russia be an alternative?

 

I don't know in fairness. I just get the feel at the moment the it is Poland where the big money is based (SEC also for example) and everything would change if that were no longer the case.

yes poland is where the big money is .a rider gets fined £1000s by his club if his shirt is not buttened up properly

[spiegal]

yes poland is where the big money is .a rider gets fined £1000s by his club if his shirt is not buttened up properly

You would all be staggered to know that there are/were bIG names who signed a massive contract...but getting teh dough is another factor all together. I can recall people who were owed £25k..and still went to Poland in teh hopes of getting paid, which of course they never did.

One deal was the rider was deducted 10% on his deal every time he missed a match..for whatever reason..including injury..and that is by reports quite normal.

With a new pay deal..75% of not very much is still better than 100% of **** all....business sense is beginning to take hold..possibly 5 years too late, but better late than never.

[moxey63]

One of the first priorities to reform British Speedway is by employing riders - whether Brits or foreign - that actually want to race here... and don't ditch us when our gloss wears a bit dull, like others I could mention, who'll xome a crawling back when Poland and Sweden kick them out and they have nowhere to ride...

 

Any rider that decides he wants to sit out British speedway while reaping the delights of overseas leagues should have a percentage placed on his average for every season he decides to miss.

Edited November 16, 2013 by moxey63

[500cc]

How about if they were allowed to share the number one slot? That would make things easier and if there are more fixtures they'd still be riding less than previous years.

The problem with that is its effectively the equivalent of only one riding in the UK. Surely it would be preferable if they were to both ride but for different teams. That has always been the case historically and there is nothing about he modern situation that should mean that's not applicable (with the exception of whether the UK can afford them in the first place.

 

The other issue is that a job share would generally cover all dates. It doesn't resolve a Friday night at Lakeside the night before a GP. In fact, in terms of preferred meetings you'd assume they'd choose virtually identical meetings.

 

And more generically what would other teams do in this situation, because I just don't think many of the top riders are interested full-stop.

 

My view remains. Don't prevent Holder and Ward riding in the UK, but equally don't create a rule specifically to suit their needs, especially one the option to ride for different clubs in the UK exists. There are enough holes in the strategy of UK speedway. Don't make it worse by making some clubs stronger and others weaker in order to support individual riders who are probably out of the price range of British Speedway as a whole.

[foamfence]

The problem with that is its effectively the equivalent of only one riding in the UK. Surely it would be preferable if they were to both ride but for different teams. That has always been the case historically and there is nothing about he modern situation that should mean that's not applicable (with the exception of whether the UK can afford them in the first place.

 

The other issue is that a job share would generally cover all dates. It doesn't resolve a Friday night at Lakeside the night before a GP. In fact, in terms of preferred meetings you'd assume they'd choose virtually identical meetings.

 

And more generically what would other teams do in this situation, because I just don't think many of the top riders are interested full-stop.

 

My view remains. Don't prevent Holder and Ward riding in the UK, but equally don't create a rule specifically to suit their needs, especially one the option to ride for different clubs in the UK exists. There are enough holes in the strategy of UK speedway. Don't make it worse by making some clubs stronger and others weaker in order to support individual riders who are probably out of the price range of British Speedway as a whole.

I wasn't thinking of them specifically, it could be done at several clubs where one or more top riders is likely to be out. It would still lessen their load from previous years and I wasn't considering giving them a fixture choice, more a take it or leave it choice. It makes no difference to me anyway as I live very much in the north, but I understand that some clubs would like to try and keep their stars, and sharing might be one option.

[screm]

Nobody is preventing Holder,Ward etc riding over here,at the end of the day if any rider really wants to ride in the EL then they will.