And Now For Something Completely Diiferent

[Cockney Rebel]

Sorry if this is a similar topic to others but they all mention the Elite Leaguebut this covers both so I stuck it here

 

We all agree that Speedway needs a drastic overhaul but we can’t all agree on exactly what should be done, some say get rid of the star riders they’re bleeding the sport dry, others say we should try to get more star riders in to pull the crowds in, obviously you can’t go with both of those. If you strip the star riders from the Elite League it would be nothing more than a strong Premier League so what would be the point in having two similar strength leagues? We cannot afford more star names unless you’re prepared to pay another tenner or so at the gate, so that’s not really practical either. Just tinkering with the points limit, which we all fear will happen, will only make things worse or at best stay the same. What we really need is a complete rethink about the League structure. Both leagues. Stay awake at the back please Uncle Stephen will be getting to the point shortly but will at first outline the idea he has wrestled with all night.

 

In motor racing. Not F1, you sometimes get a race where the competitors although all on track at the same time are not competing against all of the other cars, they’re divided into classes, so although you may finish third or fourth overall if you finish in front of the other cars in your class you are the winner of that group. So why can’t that practice apply to a league?

 

So here we go. Amalgamation! But not straight forward balancing up the teams but allowing the Elite teams to have their top men when they face each other. All 23 teams to form a British League, points limit to be set at Premier League level 41/42 whatever they decide. This would be no problem for the Premier league clubs but the Elite teams would have to declare a team within that limit using the current conversion formula. As at present there are some riders who are deemed to be too good for the Premier league these obviously include the superstar of the sport. These riders would be replaced in their team by juniors or lesser riders making sure the average does not exceed the points limit. However when two Elite league teams meet both sides would be able to bring in their big guns. For example Poole race Newcastle without Holder and Ward but race Wolves with them, similarly Wolves would race Scunthorpe without Woffy and Lindgren but would face Poole with them.

 

All teams to race each other home and away that’s 22 home meetings, but with the Elite teams only facing each other 9 home and 9 away that would reduce the number of meetings the top riders would have. 18 as opposed to 28 last year, this would reduce the cost of having the top men and with the number of commitments dropping a few of the stay aways like Hancock and Pedersen might be tempted back. The lesser lights in the Elite teams would get more matches cos they would ride against all of the Premier sides that would make them happy, fans would get more meetings which would make them happy and the promoters would have a reduced wage bill which would make them happy. The highest place Elite teams would be the Elite Champions and the highest place Premier team the Premier champs. Perhaps even the team that finished overall top could be the British League champs as well. So that’s it basically or Bonet de Dusche as Del Boy would put it.

 

To prevent our old favourite, average manipulation, from rearing it’s ugly head all those riders being declared to good for the Premier League at the start of the season would stay “too good” all the way through the year even if they did have a sudden and inexplicable drop in form when an Elite team was coming up to a run of Premier League clubs.

 

This format would also bring back all of those local Derbies that bring the crowds in Lakeside/Ipswich, Ipswich/King’s Lynn. Leicester would be able to join in the fun in the Midlands without the expense of moving up a league and imagine a Somerset/Poole encounter.

 

It would be interesting to see how the League finishes will the Elite teams dominate and fill the first ten places or will there be an even spread throughout the league. With only 22 guaranteed meetings you would still have room for play offs or a 4teams tourney if so desired

 

I have gone over this a thousand times in my head and cannot see any drawbacks can you? Some promoters might think it a bit too radical, but I believe the sport needs radical action for it to survive and thrive.

 

Thanks to all that have stayed awake and to the others have another try tomorrow.

 

 

[Martin Merritt]

other than confusing the casual fan as a "hardcore fan" i'd say thats a cracker!

[skthecat]

Sounds like a plan, works as an idea, could it work on paper and more importantly on track?

[mudflaps]

Cockney Rebel - I think you are as mad as a box of frogs!!!

Not Matt Fraud are ya?

[SCB]

Ive often wonder why not have a handicap system. So Poole build to 50 points while Eastbourne build to 38 so Eastbourne get a 12 (50-38) point advantage added to their score. The point limit could then be 38-50 and your handicap if whatever your team total comes to in March.

[mickthemuppet]

Sorry if this is a similar topic to others but they all mention the Elite Leaguebut this covers both so I stuck it here

 

We all agree that Speedway needs a drastic overhaul but we can’t all agree on exactly what should be done, some say get rid of the star riders they’re bleeding the sport dry, others say we should try to get more star riders in to pull the crowds in, obviously you can’t go with both of those. If you strip the star riders from the Elite League it would be nothing more than a strong Premier League so what would be the point in having two similar strength leagues? We cannot afford more star names unless you’re prepared to pay another tenner or so at the gate, so that’s not really practical either. Just tinkering with the points limit, which we all fear will happen, will only make things worse or at best stay the same. What we really need is a complete rethink about the League structure. Both leagues. Stay awake at the back please Uncle Stephen will be getting to the point shortly but will at first outline the idea he has wrestled with all night.

 

In motor racing. Not F1, you sometimes get a race where the competitors although all on track at the same time are not competing against all of the other cars, they’re divided into classes, so although you may finish third or fourth overall if you finish in front of the other cars in your class you are the winner of that group. So why can’t that practice apply to a league?

 

So here we go. Amalgamation! But not straight forward balancing up the teams but allowing the Elite teams to have their top men when they face each other. All 23 teams to form a British League, points limit to be set at Premier League level 41/42 whatever they decide. This would be no problem for the Premier league clubs but the Elite teams would have to declare a team within that limit using the current conversion formula. As at present there are some riders who are deemed to be too good for the Premier league these obviously include the superstar of the sport. These riders would be replaced in their team by juniors or lesser riders making sure the average does not exceed the points limit. However when two Elite league teams meet both sides would be able to bring in their big guns. For example Poole race Newcastle without Holder and Ward but race Wolves with them, similarly Wolves would race Scunthorpe without Woffy and Lindgren but would face Poole with them.

 

All teams to race each other home and away that’s 22 home meetings, but with the Elite teams only facing each other 9 home and 9 away that would reduce the number of meetings the top riders would have. 18 as opposed to 28 last year, this would reduce the cost of having the top men and with the number of commitments dropping a few of the stay aways like Hancock and Pedersen might be tempted back. The lesser lights in the Elite teams would get more matches cos they would ride against all of the Premier sides that would make them happy, fans would get more meetings which would make them happy and the promoters would have a reduced wage bill which would make them happy. The highest place Elite teams would be the Elite Champions and the highest place Premier team the Premier champs. Perhaps even the team that finished overall top could be the British League champs as well. So that’s it basically or Bonet de Dusche as Del Boy would put it.

 

To prevent our old favourite, average manipulation, from rearing it’s ugly head all those riders being declared to good for the Premier League at the start of the season would stay “too good” all the way through the year even if they did have a sudden and inexplicable drop in form when an Elite team was coming up to a run of Premier League clubs.

 

This format would also bring back all of those local Derbies that bring the crowds in Lakeside/Ipswich, Ipswich/King’s Lynn. Leicester would be able to join in the fun in the Midlands without the expense of moving up a league and imagine a Somerset/Poole encounter.

 

It would be interesting to see how the League finishes will the Elite teams dominate and fill the first ten places or will there be an even spread throughout the league. With only 22 guaranteed meetings you would still have room for play offs or a 4teams tourney if so desired

 

I have gone over this a thousand times in my head and cannot see any drawbacks can you? Some promoters might think it a bit too radical, but I believe the sport needs radical action for it to survive and thrive.

 

Thanks to all that have stayed awake and to the others have another try tomorrow.

Twenty Three teams would mean a minimum of 161 riders without any back up riders. Then double up riders like Craig Cook, Ben Barker are going to have a lot less meetings under this system. Ben Barker rode in 61 matches last season which would go down to 18 is he rides for Birmingham next year under your system. So he would lose 70% of his income. Sorry but it is a non starter

[Brooksy]

Twenty Three teams would mean a minimum of 161 riders without any back up riders. Then double up riders like Craig Cook, Ben Barker are going to have a lot less meetings under this system. Ben Barker rode in 61 matches last season which would go down to 18 is he rides for Birmingham next year under your system. So he would lose 70% of his income. Sorry but it is a non starter

 

Surely those riders currently eligible to double-up would be eligible to ride in every fixture, making a total of 44 possible paydays, plus play-offs,etc. It would only be the 'elite stars' who would be restricted to maybe 18 fixtures. I think it has the makings of a good idea, but who would ride instead of Holder and Ward when Poole took on Somerset, for example, Brother Cockney?

 

Edit: Sorry Cockney - read your post again and I see you've already answered my question. Doh!

Edited November 7, 2013 by Barney Rebel

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Ive often wonder why not have a handicap system. So Poole build to 50 points while Eastbourne build to 38 so Eastbourne get a 12 (50-38) point advantage added to their score. The point limit could then be 38-50 and your handicap if whatever your team total comes to in March.

That could work so long as you scrap heat 15.

[mickthemuppet]

So it's Ipswich against Poole

Then Chris Holder and Darcy ward would not ride for Poole. Nor would Mickey Dyer,Rowan Tungate or Josh Grajczonek ride as they are double up riders. That leaves Maciej Janowski and Thomas Jonasson. So where do the other 5 riders come from. The same would apply to Kings Lynn , Birmingham, Swindon and Belle Vue. They will also need another 5 riders when racing against Premier League opponents. I would think you will need another 50 riders

[AFCB Wildcat]

So it's Ipswich against Poole

Then Chris Holder and Darcy ward would not ride for Poole. Nor would Mickey Dyer,Rowan Tungate or Josh Grajczonek ride as they are double up riders. That leaves Maciej Janowski and Thomas Jonasson. So where do the other 5 riders come from. The same would apply to Kings Lynn , Birmingham, Swindon and Belle Vue. They will also need another 5 riders when racing against Premier League opponents. I would think you will need another 50 riders

I may have misunderstood but wasn't the OP saying that only GP standard riders would be exluded from the Premier league fixtures. Current double up riders would still be eligible as they will only be representing one club in this system.

Certainly more riders will be needed to fill the gaps when the current double up riders have to commit to one team but is it as many as 50?

Edited November 7, 2013 by AFCB Wildcat

[MattK]

That is actually a really interesting idea.

 

Maybe reduce teams to six riders if there aren't enough to go around?

[Cockney Rebel]

Cockney Rebel - I think you are as mad as a box of frogs!!!

Not Matt Fraud are ya?

Perlease. If I was Fat Maud would I even suggest that Poole would ride against anyone without the Grusome Twosome, er Sorry Turbo Twins

[Cockney Rebel]

I do realise that some double uppers may have less meeting than at present but what about the middle order Elite riders who are not doubling up and not riding abroad? They would get more meetings under this system. Also with riders only representing one team there would be no accusation of such and such rider putting more effort into his EL club than he does for us. Also regarding the "non believers" that is non Speedway goers, you won't have to explain how a rider can ride for two teams. My fourteen year old nephew lives in Birmingham and has never been Speedway even though I've tried my best, he is aware of how well the Brummies did this year and that Jason Doyle rides for them but he was a bit confused when I told him that Jason also rides for Somerset in a different league. I then had to explain the whole two League system and that no there was no promotion and relegation and the double up riders etc.

 

As for a shortage of riders, as the saying goes "Build it and they will come".Third heatleaders and second strings in the Elite matches would become top men and heat leaders in the Premier matches, reserves would become second strings and the better National League riders would move ino the reserve spots. Simples.

[Deano]

I do like the idea of big clubs dropping the big guns when riding against a smaller club. Could bring back weekend racing at top level to help crowds when a smaller club is in town.

 

Perhaps each club could be graded A or B for that purpose.

 

I like the idea of more variety. Something that the Premier League tends to give.

[MattK]

As for a shortage of riders, as the saying goes "Build it and they will come".Third heatleaders and second strings in the Elite matches would become top men and heat leaders in the Premier matches, reserves would become second strings and the better National League riders would move ino the reserve spots. Simples.

 

At the end of last season there were 138 individual riders in the EL and PL.

 

That means there would be a "shortage" of 23 riders in a combined league. I'm not sure there are enough NL riders and foreigners to fill that gap.

 

On the other hand, 23 teams of six riders each equals 138 riders!

[AndyJ]

 

At the end of last season there were 138 individual riders in the EL and PL.

 

That means there would be a "shortage" of 23 riders in a combined league. I'm not sure there are enough NL riders and foreigners to fill that gap.

 

On the other hand, 23 teams of six riders each equals 138 riders!

 

Doesn't that 138 riders include those who, without the Sky money, would be deemed to be too expensive for British Speedway?

If so I guess another 7-10 may need dropping from the 138...

[EC Rides Again]

Doesn't that 138 riders include those who, without the Sky money, would be deemed to be too expensive for British Speedway?

If so I guess another 7-10 may need dropping from the 138...

I don't think that finding 7-10 new suitable riders from among National Leaguers and/or foreigners would be too much of a stretch.

This idea from Cockney Rebel has a lot going for it but as others have said it would probably only work using six man teams. However, probably half of the fixtures this year had R/R down to ride for one or both of the teams, so would we notice the difference ?

Edited November 7, 2013 by EC Rides Again

[enotian]

The most important decision for promoters this winter must be which strategy to follow:-

 

Either, a genuine Elite league, or reduce costs to Premier League level across the board.

 

What hasn't worked over the last 10 years is falling between the two options. Which is effectively what the current Elite league is.

 

A genuine Elite League would without question need to feature the majority of GP stars. To achieve that you need a) the cash to pay them so a TV deal would probably be required, fit into the riders schedules and that means racing on the same night every week, and c) tracks/venues that are conducive to GP standard racing.

In a genuine Elite League less is more. I'd suggest 8 7 man teams. Each comprising of 4 International standard riders supplemented by a squad of 6 British double uppers from the Premier League. Rider grading to dictate team building. 10 home and 10 away league fixtures to be completed by end of August. Play Off finale in September. All fixtures on a Thursday night with potentially the weekly TV match on a Monday night so as not to effect Thursday night attendances. Priced at current Elite League levels.

 

Alternatively, the current Premier League model could be adopted across the board but one big league has failed before. But two divisions of 15/16 teams could allow genuine promotion/relegation for the first time. With consideration given to reducing pricing to £12-£14.

 

The content of each strategy is open to debate but the important choice is genuine Elite standard or reduce cost to Premier League levels.