Fromafar Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 there's some great ideas on here but the elephant in the room has to be dealt with: what can be done about the star riders Britain's leagues can not afford.That is the problem,do these riders take a wage cut or move abroad ,trouble is the EL second strings and foreigners probably not good enough to find teams on the Continent on a regular basis to make it pay.Nobody seems to know just how much the so called Elite League manages to survive given the tales woe that comes out from certain Clubs every year yet nothing seems to change and they run the next season.Who's telling Porkies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 That is the problem,do these riders take a wage cut or move abroad ,trouble is the EL second strings and foreigners probably not good enough to find teams on the Continent on a regular basis to make it pay. Sadly, they'll either have to drop their expectations or become collateral damage if British speedway can no longer afford them. Nobody seems to know just how much the so called Elite League manages to survive given the tales woe that comes out from certain Clubs every year yet nothing seems to change and they run the next season. Some of the losses may be exaggerated, but BEL has been largely run on sugar daddies and the Sky largesse for the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Sadly, they'll either have to drop their expectations or become collateral damage if British speedway can no longer afford them.Some of the losses may be exaggerated, but BEL has been largely run on sugar daddies and the Sky largesse for the past few years.Have to agree on both points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skthecat Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) I'm sure in the 70's and 80's, reserves were reserves... They regularly got 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 & possibly 5/6 on really good nights! ! They got the bulk in heat 2, and a point or 2 from being in races with only 3 finishers or less!! They weren't professional reserves, on stupidly low averages, they didn't go out and have 7 rides, getting 15-21 points a meeting and they were either young uns or not far from retirement type riders. ... Having to have "strong" reserves is probably just as much to blame on bringing on kids as does employing dodgy foreigners!!!!!! Edited November 7, 2013 by Never to old 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Sadly, they'll either have to drop their expectations or become collateral damage if British speedway can no longer afford them. Some of the losses may be exaggerated, but BEL has been largely run on sugar daddies and the Sky largesse for the past few years. What an arrogant Post. I believe that the Elite League is a failed Product. Promoters paying Riders far more than they can reasonably afford. Elite League Finances are in a mess with the odd exception. I hope that the Premier League Promoters look very carefully at any deal with the so called Elite League. The Elite League has been in trouble for years and that is with the SKY money. They will be in penury without it. We don't want them bringing their same problems to the Premier League. There is an old saying - "if it ain't broke - don't try to fix it" - the Premier League ain't broke - so LEAVE IT ALONE!!! The Premier League is working reasonably well at present - I would not like the Elite League Clubs coming in and ruining what is a very decent League. THEY must sort their own problems out. They were happy to take most of the SKY money during the good times - now let them try to manage without it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 What an arrogant Post. I believe that the Elite League is a failed Product. Promoters paying Riders far more than they can reasonably afford. Elite League Finances are in a mess with the odd exception. I hope that the Premier League Promoters look very carefully at any deal with the so called Elite League. The Elite League has been in trouble for years and that is with the SKY money. They will be in penury without it. We don't want them bringing their same problems to the Premier League. There is an old saying - "if it ain't broke - don't try to fix it" - the Premier League ain't broke - so LEAVE IT ALONE!!! The Premier League is working reasonably well at present - I would not like the Elite League Clubs coming in and ruining what is a very decent League. THEY must sort their own problems out. They were happy to take most of the SKY money during the good times - now let them try to manage without it. To be fair TWK I think you have slightly misunderstood. The collateral damage referred to i think is the riders from abroad we can not afford - i think i'm right in saying that I agree strongly the PL is not broken and should be the benchmark for any amalgamation - however i can't see Poole, etc agreeing to that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 What an arrogant Post. What a silly response. In any declining industry, workers may sadly find themselves out of work. Just look at the shipbuilders who're being laid off, and whilst we can all have sympathy with their predicament, there are simply insufficient ships to build and therefore insufficient income to maintain the same numbers. I believe that the Elite League is a failed Product. Promoters paying Riders far more than they can reasonably afford. Elite League Finances are in a mess with the odd exception. So how do expect EL standard riders to be employed in future then? If they can't ride in other leagues or are unwilling to drop to PL wages, where do you expect them to go? The Premier League is working reasonably well at present - I would not like the Elite League Clubs coming in and ruining what is a very decent League. THEY must sort their own problems out. They were happy to take most of the SKY money during the good times - now let them try to manage without it. So that's fine then? They can just all go bankrupt and everyone in the PL will be happy. Except, do you not think there will an influx from the riders put out of work who will have an inflationary pressure on the model of perfection that's the PL? The PL is cost effective precisely because the expensive riders compete elsewhere at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 "So how do expect EL standard riders to be employed in future then? If they can't ride in other leagues or are unwilling to drop to PL wages, where do you expect them to go?" Humphrey, why the hell should we care? They work for the going rate or do something else 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Humphrey, why the hell should we care? They work for the going rate or do something else That was my point, but that's apparently arrogant according to TWK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 That was my point, but that's apparently arrogant according to TWK. I doubt TWK would disagree - i think he's maybe misunderstood you he and i generally sing from a similar hymnsheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC Rides Again Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 There are several topics spread across the Forum that are similar in tone to this one. They are all asking "what next?". At the crux of the matter is the Sky money, or lack of it. The promoters seem to be in a "chicken and egg" fix in that they cannot decide how to organise themselves for next year until they know what TV deal will apply - but how can you negotiate a TV deal with no structure in place! The AGM next week will reveal all (or not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 What an arrogant Post. I believe that the Elite League is a failed Product. Promoters paying Riders far more than they can reasonably afford. Elite League Finances are in a mess with the odd exception. I hope that the Premier League Promoters look very carefully at any deal with the so called Elite League. The Elite League has been in trouble for years and that is with the SKY money. They will be in penury without it. We don't want them bringing their same problems to the Premier League. There is an old saying - "if it ain't broke - don't try to fix it" - the Premier League ain't broke - so LEAVE IT ALONE!!! The Premier League is working reasonably well at present - I would not like the Elite League Clubs coming in and ruining what is a very decent League. THEY must sort their own problems out. They were happy to take most of the SKY money during the good times - now let them try to manage without it. How do judge a league being a working product ? there are just many clubs in the Pl who finances are in a mess and just about stay open each year ...just like any sport without the sky money that sport in question would not be able to run in the way it has speedway is the same ...The PL just like the El in losing fans and money as every season passes . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 How do judge a league being a working product ? there are just many clubs in the Pl who finances are in a mess and just about stay open each year ...just like any sport without the sky money that sport in question would not be able to run in the way it has speedway is the same ...The PL just like the El in losing fans and money as every season passes . Perhaps you are right - but crucially - we don't want failed Elite League Clubs entering the Premier League and expecting to rule the roost - it has happened before. As I said - SKY money has not really affected the Premier League to any great extent so the Clubs in the lower League are used to working to tight Budgets - former Elite League Clubs patently obviously - aren't. They (the Elite League) need to put their own house in order. I realise you will not agree with me orion. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Perhaps you are right - but crucially - we don't want failed Elite League Clubs entering the Premier League and expecting to rule the roost - it has happened before. As I said - SKY money has not really affected the Premier League to any great extent so the Clubs in the lower League are used to working to tight Budgets - former Elite League Clubs patently obviously - aren't. They (the Elite League) need to put their own house in order. I realise you will not agree with me orion. Sorry. ? all work to same Ideal what money you are getting in and what you paying out . as I said there have been just as many if not more PL clubs who at this present time can't balance the books ...in terms of losing money and fans both are the same . How long have Glasgow etc been in the pl ? there losing money all the time hardly ties in what say about teams being able to to work to tight budgets because they have been in the pl for a number of years . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Except that the AGM rarely reveals anything .Probably introduce a new helmet cover colour as the major change ,if previous AGM's are anything to go by. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmuffe Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Except that the AGM rarely reveals anything . No far better to let it out in dribs and drabs so no body notices!! They think that works because they are so far removed from the fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Personally I would like to see just Leicester move up to make it 11 teams with 20 home and 20 away meetings (40 league matches). If more than one team moves up then there will be a series of group matches for some trophy before each team races each other just once at home and once away. (22-24 league matches) Limit it to 11 teams in the EL so either one up or two up and one down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric i Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 There are several topics spread across the Forum that are similar in tone to this one. They are all asking "what next?". At the crux of the matter is the Sky money, or lack of it. The promoters seem to be in a "chicken and egg" fix in that they cannot decide how to organise themselves for next year until they know what TV deal will apply - but how can you negotiate a TV deal with no structure in place! The AGM next week will reveal all (or not). Is there a confirmed data for the AGM or will it be postponed until they know if there is a TV deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Is there a confirmed data for the AGM or will it be postponed until they know if there is a TV deal.that is a good question no point in AGM's if all the information is not available ,probably come up with some contingency plan if that is the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Why would Sky sign a new deal without knowing whats on offer? Surely its down to the AGM to set out Speedways stall and then Sky (or any other) can decide if they want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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