racers and royals Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) I thought it would be interesting to try and compare the various strengths of the 3 top leagues in Poland,Sweden and GB I have taken 2013 final averages(less bonus pts)across the 3 leagues-for the Elite league they are the rolling averages. One doesn`t have to be Einstein to realise that the Elite league is the weakest so therefore provide the highest averages of the three(generally) I have shown riders who ride in the 3 leagues first Zagar Eng 8.64 Pol 8.14 Swe 6.32 Batchelor Eng 8.21 pol 7.64 Swe 6.40 NKI Pol 9.46 Eng 9.12 Swe 8.71 Ward Eng 9.07 Swe 8.73 Pol 7.62 Holder Eng 9.23 Swe 8.91 Pol 8.35 Hancock Eng 8.77 Swe 8.54 Pol 7.38 Andersen Eng 8.34 Swe 5.89 Pol 5.49 Buczkowski Eng 7.33 Pol 6.07 Swe 5.93 Lindgren Eng 8.94 Swe 7.03 Pol 6.24 Magic pol 7.04 Eng 6.95 Kasprzak Eng 7.97 Pol 7.35 N Pedersen Swe 9.27 pol 8.78 Woffinden Pol 9.33 Eng 9.20 Hampel Pol 9.61 Swe 9.17 Ulamek Eng 6.60 Pol 5.81 G Laguta Swe 8.50 Pol 8.27 A Laguta Pol 7.88 Swe 7.33 Protasiewicz Swe 8.28 Pol 7.69 Kolodziej Pol 7.89 Swe 7.36 MJJ Swe 7.44 Pol 6.53 Miedzinski Pol 7.49 Swe 7.47 Walasek Pol 8.34 Swe 7.37 Kildemand Eng 8.25 Swe 7.14 B Pedersen Eng 8.12 Pol 5.75 Jonsson Pol 7.40 Swe 6.65 Zengota Pol 6.29 Eng 6.15 Bjerre Eng 8.45 Pol 7.06 Piotr Pawlicki Swe 7.09 pol 6.86 Prem Pawlicki Pol 7.26 Swe 6.65 Dudek Swe 7.49 Pol 7.48 Harris Eng 6.82 Swe 5.90 Vaculik Swe 6.31 Pol 4.95 Holta Pol 6.56 Swe 5.58 Kylmakorpi Eng 7.12 Swe 4.88 Jedrzejak Pol 6.04 Swe 6.00 P Karlsson Eng 8.09 Swe 6.93 Zmarlik Swe 6.78 pol 6.57 I did say earlier in the season that Sweden was the top league for rider strength-these figures show that some riders go better in Poland,some in Sweden.I suppose that`s no surprise as there are many reasons why a riders average is better in one country than another- i suspect that Vaculik picked up a shed load of bonus points in poland which keeps his ave quoted here low. Edited October 28, 2013 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandonbee48 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Adding the 3 together, we get the following. NK.Iversen. 27.29 Chris Holder. 26.49 Darcy Ward. 25.42 Greg Hancock 24.69 Matej Zagar 23.10 Troy Batchelor 22.25 Freddie Lindgren 22.21 Hans Andersen 19.72 K. Buczkowski 19.33. I therefore pronounce Niels as "Top Dog. 2013" Which definitively proves that it is the close season and we have too much time on our hands. Regards. Alan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500cc Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 I thought it would be interesting to try and compare the various strengths of the 3 top leagues in Poland,Sweden and GB I have taken 2013 final averages(less bonus pts)across the 3 leagues-for the Elite league they are the rolling averages. One doesn`t have to be Einstein to realise that the Elite league is the weakest so therefore provide the highest averages of the three(generally) I have shown riders who ride in the 3 leagues first Piotr Pawlicki Swe 7.09 pol 6.86 But Matt Ford said a team wouldn't dream of signing Pawlicki on a 7. So that can't be true. Or is the aim to sign riders on a false average !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy jimmy Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 But Matt Ford said a team wouldn't dream of signing Pawlicki on a 7. So that can't be true. Or is the aim to sign riders on a false average !!! Exactly as 7 looks spot on for him as an average! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 hen I did my analysis of top 30 riders in the world for 2013, I used a weighting which had the Swedish League being approximately 10% stronger than the Polish League, which in turn was 10% stronger than the EL, which in turn was 10% stronger than the Polish second flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchesterpaul Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) hen I did my analysis of top 30 riders in the world for 2013, I used a weighting which had the Swedish League being approximately 10% stronger than the Polish League, which in turn was 10% stronger than the EL, which in turn was 10% stronger than the Polish second flight. I was a little surprised a couple of months ago when R&R stated that he thought the Swedish league was stronger than Poland, and your 10% would have probably have been subjected to a twiddle with too lol. But then again i've not looked at the stats from very recent seasons and can only presume there has been an increase in power of the Swedish League? Reason being that - until a couple of seasons ago - i used to copy and paste the stats from Sportowefakty into a spreadsheet at the end of each season from the various leagues and also apply a weighting that on the whole proved highly accurate across a high percentage of the riders. Even aside from the weighting adjustment one used to see rider after rider whose averages went from their highest being in the UK Elite League and then decrease in the Swedish Elitserien to their lowest figures being in the Polish Ekstraliga due to increases in class of riders competing. I haven't got the time at the moment, or inclination lol, but it might be interesting to cobble together all the three leagues but not with 'rolling averages' for the UK, as surely all leagues need to be subjected to the same basic criteria. I personally would prefer bonus points to be included as i feel it reflects a truer sporting performance as to what happened on the track. Thankfully the Speedway Star and every other publication over the decades have always published averages including bonus points and rightly leave the 'team-building' averages to that purpose alone. Incidentally 'waihekeaces' do you judge your top 30 to a classification of the top 30 riders in the world or......the top 30 LEAGUE riders in the world? I used to wonder about that angle when i compiled my ratings. I would possibly lean towards it being a league (team) rider rating although obviously there would be a great crossover in it also being a fair reflection of world rankings. Maybe a rider has to be a little more selfish to win the world title? Does your 10% rule hold pretty much fairly well across the board of riders. I have an inkling that to use the same increment is not sheer coincidence or an exactly calculated percentage. Like i say i'd therefore probably twiddle with the sliding rating. What thread was your top 30 published in (if you did post it), lol don't worry not to find fault with i'd just like to see it. I'm presuming the top 30 aren't 30 you selected as such then rated them and instead are the top 30 from all rider ratings? Right now i haven't got the time and/or it's not that deep into the off-season for me to feel the need to be researching such things lol. I can think of riders like Ivan Mauger who would likely to have always topped the league averages when winning his titles but then again he didn't ride in three leagues or more per season. Also like a few others along the years he was an exceptional rider in his time and clearly conclusions would be better drawn from a large sample of riders over the season than just the top echelon. Edited November 7, 2013 by manchesterpaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 I thought it would be interesting to try and compare the various strengths of the 3 top leagues in Poland,Sweden and GB I have taken 2013 final averages(less bonus pts)across the 3 leagues-for the Elite league they are the rolling averages. One doesn`t have to be Einstein to realise that the Elite league is the weakest so therefore provide the highest averages of the three(generally) I have shown riders who ride in the 3 leagues first Zagar Eng 8.64 Pol 8.14 Swe 6.32 Batchelor Eng 8.21 pol 7.64 Swe 6.40 NKI Pol 9.46 Eng 9.12 Swe 8.71 Ward Eng 9.07 Swe 8.73 Pol 7.62 Holder Eng 9.23 Swe 8.91 Pol 8.35 Hancock Eng 8.77 Swe 8.54 Pol 7.38 Andersen Eng 8.34 Swe 5.89 Pol 5.49 Buczkowski Eng 7.33 Pol 6.07 Swe 5.93 Lindgren Eng 8.94 Swe 7.03 Pol 6.24 Magic pol 7.04 Eng 6.95 Kasprzak Eng 7.97 Pol 7.35 N Pedersen Swe 9.27 pol 8.78 Woffinden Pol 9.33 Eng 9.20 Hampel Pol 9.61 Swe 9.17 Ulamek Eng 6.60 Pol 5.81 G Laguta Swe 8.50 Pol 8.27 A Laguta Pol 7.88 Swe 7.33 Protasiewicz Swe 8.28 Pol 7.69 Kolodziej Pol 7.89 Swe 7.36 MJJ Swe 7.44 Pol 6.53 Miedzinski Pol 7.49 Swe 7.47 Walasek Pol 8.34 Swe 7.37 Kildemand Eng 8.25 Swe 7.14 B Pedersen Eng 8.12 Pol 5.75 Jonsson Pol 7.40 Swe 6.65 Zengota Pol 6.29 Eng 6.15 Bjerre Eng 8.45 Pol 7.06 Piotr Pawlicki Swe 7.09 pol 6.86 Prem Pawlicki Pol 7.26 Swe 6.65 Dudek Swe 7.49 Pol 7.48 Harris Eng 6.82 Swe 5.90 Vaculik Swe 6.31 Pol 4.95 Holta Pol 6.56 Swe 5.58 Kylmakorpi Eng 7.12 Swe 4.88 Jedrzejak Pol 6.04 Swe 6.00 P Karlsson Eng 8.09 Swe 6.93 Zmarlik Swe 6.78 pol 6.57 Strange how some riders appear very consistent across 3 leagues like Holder and NKI but others have large differences in average. Batch, Andersen, Lindgren are three of those. Maybe due to the lack of depth in the UK and stronger in Poland / Sweden ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) MP: OK, at the risk of boring others: (and I'm not going to quote your post here due to length): The 10% is a round figure used for simplicity here, in reality it varied beteen 9-11%. Average was done across majority of riders that rode in moiré than one of thios eleagues, if a rider asn’t in the top say 50 of a league’s riders it’s possible i didn’t include them in the calculation. Cacls were done based on 2013 meetings only, and averages including BP. The thread is here, gives more details on how calculation was done. http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=75014&page=2&do=findComment&comment=2368252 Re your last point. I’ve looked at doing similar rankings historically, planning to start with the 80s (my favourite decade in speedway). For that I was planning to use weightings of 25% each for world Final, world final qualifiers, internationals (tests, pairs, wtc) and BL (inc “bonus” for those in top 3 in BLRC). I don’t have a sufficient archive of information to include the other individual events (UK and in Europe) that would potentially have been a fifth factor for inclusion. There’s also a list somewhere on the forum of riders ho topped the league averages in the same year as winning the world final, not rare but not that common either, though I believe Hans (greatest league speedway rider ever?) did it four times (definitely 86,87,89, not certain on 95). Edited November 8, 2013 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 League strength or team strength? If I started up a 10 team league tomorrow and had half the riders in the Worlds top 100 rider in it but then had a league with 20 teams but all top 100 riders then the riders in my two leagues would average about there same. The teams would be similar strength as each other. But the league that had ALL the top 100 riders would be a stronger league. If you have more teams in a league then riders will have higher averages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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