No Sky Speedway = A New Opportunity

[michaelcroucher]

This is quite a good idea but there is only thing. I looked into this last year to stream speedway matches via the internet. The only problem is to stream you need a licence to broadcast the stream which doesn’t come cheap. If the person is a Millionaire not a problem. You don’t have to have great equipment to stream at tracks as this can be done via own equipment and doesn’t cost lots of money. The problem is if the person doesn’t have great internet connection and PC then it won’t show that well. I stream a lot at home which is one thing but when you are streaming broadcasts then you are in a different league. If sky don’t show speedway next year then why can’t someone like Eurosport take it on. They show SGP and the WC what not to say they are happy with it. Then that way you can pay £5.99 a month and watch it on any device. For example Xbox, PC, Tablet etc. If I was a sky customer and watch speedway and knew that sky was not going to show the speedway I would get in touch with Eurosport and tell them. If more and more people contact them then they would probably do something about it as the ratings would go up as more people would subscribe to it. Also if you have BT sport then you can also get British Eurosport so not just sky customers should get in contact everyone should. Its not just sky out there anymore other companies are out there and give a much better service.

[seanmuffe]

Much better plan is for all you TV lads and lassies is to save your subscription's and spend it at your local track, in the Elite League that would be £16 or £17 extra revenue even if you could only afford to go once a month ........unlike the Sky money the track would get all the cash then. Then you move onto the regular fan who stays at home to watch his team he would then (not a dig why pay twice) turn up at more meetings again money direct to track. Does anybody seriously think crowds wont improve(unless the standard is really reduced will removing 6 or 7 riders matter that much) sadly we wont regain all those lost in the past but it might arrest the decline to give us time. People quote £100000 lost income ...how much do they get for staging a match or is that included. Without relying on TV maybe the powers that be would have to consider the punters ...........right no chance. Added to that they will have to go out and get sponsorship I wouldn't mind betting that some pitch the level too high because of the TV involvement and they might find in this economic climate there are still some takers. This wont solve all the problems but at least it might improve cash flow.

[BWitcher]

 

 

Good to hear how Starkid are using the technology to help them and i appreciate you've been enjoying their work while living several thousand miles away and therefore may not have much background info on the group.

 

However, if you're able to do so, could you answer the following ...

 

1) How much of the $7 (about £4.50) subscription actually reaches the performers after any online production costs have been covered ? (is a lump sum deducted for those costs or a percentage of each $7 coming in ?)

 

2) How many performers receive a share of any online profits from these shows ? ... while Starkid almost certainly have a smaller (but cleverly developing) fanbase than the total fanbase of the 10 Elite League clubs, I suspect they also have far fewer people awaiting any profits compared to 10 businesses all dealing with annual turnovers of several hundred thousand pounds !!

 

Hi Arthur,

 

I am not 100% on the details of your 1st question. I am however about to leave for Germany for a convention where they are performing and will be meeting with some members of the group. I will try and get some more accurate info on it.

 

The group is quite large, this particular show had 8 performers, 1 director, 1 lighting assistant so a fair few to spread any profits around. Other shows can contain more performers.

 

Surely the profits for each broadcast should go to the home team, or the teams involved in that particular match.

 

Perhaps another idea if the livestream option isn't deemed viable would be for matches to be made available a day or two later. Most meetings are filmed these days, it doesn't take much to upload those meetings and make them available for viewing as a one-off or to subscribers.

[michaelcroucher]

just one problemm not everyone that watches speedway on tv lives near a track. if i went once a week to my local track im looking at £150 to £200 a month. I can spend half that and stay at home and watch it on my tv if i wanted to, and im sure there are more people out there like me.

 

Hi Arthur,

 

I am not 100% on the details of your 1st question. I am however about to leave for Germany for a convention where they are performing and will be meeting with some members of the group. I will try and get some more accurate info on it.

 

The group is quite large, this particular show had 8 performers, 1 director, 1 lighting assistant so a fair few to spread any profits around. Other shows can contain more performers.

 

Surely the profits for each broadcast should go to the home team, or the teams involved in that particular match.

 

Perhaps another idea if the livestream option isn't deemed viable would be for matches to be made available a day or two later. Most meetings are filmed these days, it doesn't take much to upload those meetings and make them available for viewing as a one-off or to subscribers.

 

much better idea adn the moeny could go to the club. that way the club is making more money. I would pay for that.

[The White Knight]

Much better plan is for all you TV lads and lassies is to save your subscription's and spend it at your local track, in the Elite League that would be £16 or £17 extra revenue even if you could only afford to go once a month ........unlike the Sky money the track would get all the cash then.Then you move onto the regular fan who stays at home to watch his team he would then (not a dig why pay twice) turn up at more meetings again money direct tot i track. Does anybody seriously think crowds wont improve(unless the standard is really reduced will removing 6 or 7 riders matter that much) sadly we wont regain all those losn the past but it might arrest the decline to give us time. People quote £100000 lost income ...how much do they get for staging a match or is that included. Without relying on TV maybe the powers that be would have to consider the punters ...........right no chance. Added to that they will have to go out and get sponsorship I wouldn't mind betting that some pitch the level too high because of the TV involvement and they might find in this economic climate there are still some takers. This wont solve all the problems but at least it might improve cash flow.

 

Because you are a SUPPORTER. The two times my Teams have been on the Television - I have still gone to the Meeting and recorded the Televised version. That is what you do if you are a SUPPORTER. What is the point of your Team getting the bonus of a Television Meeting and not going - you are then costing your Team money and making their Television Bonus money that much less.

 

Perhaps if these so called 'SUPPORTERS' had actually attended the Meetings, SKY may have been ready to renew their Contract.

[flagrag]

If there is to be no Sky deal in 2014 then in principle I agree with this idea and could work if fans really got behind it.

The biggest problem I can see if the actual uploading and broadcasting from the track of the pictures. Most of the elite league tracks do not have fast enough broadband connections to allow broadcast of video and and I know of two that do have 100mb leased lines but you have no chance of using them. Sky have this year tried two technology forms this year both running over 4G connections which coverage is limited and at present the speeds are not good enough for live racing with pictures not good. This was ok for the around the tracks feature in the pits and even that often was downloaded onto a EVS server for play out into the show.

My professional advice which I have given to certain people involved in the sport is if there is no tv deal available with any UK broadcaster see if the sport can gain the sponsorship to produce their own coverage like with the Greyhounds which they are currently doing for around 5-7k a week then Sky MAY be interested in giving the platform to broadcast if did not have to worry about the production costs and they would just pay some money for the rights ok the clubs would not get the big money payments but would keep it on our screens and it would be easier to get a new deal another season if can show the product.

[racers and royals]

Sky have shown the Spanish football top league live for many years,so maybe they might just pinch the swedish league contract from Premier sports(existing contract has finished ) and show it live on Tuesday evenings as their Speedway offering-people certainly couldn`t complain about the quality of the line ups-as this is a possible team for Elite Vetlanda in 2014

1 Tai Woffinden 2,071

2 Bartoz Zmarzlik 1,791

3 Emil Sayfutdinov 1,389

4 Tomas H Jonasson 1,341

5 Jarek Hampel 2,280

6 David Ruud 0,857

7 Jacob Thorssell 0,500

total 10,229

[Conkers in Gravy]

There's some really interesting ideas here which I would hope that open-minded speedway promoters would at least explore. Doesn't help me much as I live in Orkney and our broadband speeds are dismal, but, with a lot of TV now moving towards internet broadcast, it would seem to be a possibility and maybe even the way to start a small, affordable 'in-house' production company to provide pictures to existing TV channels in the future. -- I notice Terry Russell is due for a meeting with Sky next week.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Conkers in Gravy

[phillipsr]

Sky have shown the Spanish football top league live for many years,so maybe they might just pinch the swedish league contract from Premier sports(existing contract has finished ) and show it live on Tuesday evenings as their Speedway offering-people certainly couldn`t complain about the quality of the line ups-as this is a possible team for Elite Vetlanda in 2014

1 Tai Woffinden 2,071

2 Bartoz Zmarzlik 1,791

3 Emil Sayfutdinov 1,389

4 Tomas H Jonasson 1,341

5 Jarek Hampel 2,280

6 David Ruud 0,857

7 Jacob Thorssell 0,500

total 10,229

 

Now a team like that i would go and watch

[seanmuffe]

Because you are a SUPPORTER. The two times my Teams have been on the Television - I have still gone to the Meeting and recorded the Televised version. That is what you do if you are a SUPPORTER. What is the point of your Team getting the bonus of a Television Meeting and not going - you are then costing your Team money and making their Television Bonus money that much less.

 

Perhaps if these so called 'SUPPORTERS' had actually attended the Meetings, SKY may have been ready to renew their Contract.

Not sure they do that's the problem ...I go as well but we are weird not liking play offs as well.!!!! Wasn't it free to Sky to start with then £5m for 5 years which was cheap bearing a premier football team has only got to be on twice or finish bottom to claw £1m and that 's one club not the whole sport sorry they saw us coming!!

Edited October 20, 2013 by seanmuffe

[ch958]

tell you what - we may act like dicks on here sometimes, myself included but this shows that there are good thinkers out there with good ideas

[salty]

Interesting thread. Fair play to Steve for kicking it off.

Having said that I can't see the BSPA grasping this particular nettle. Setting up their own subscription streaming service would be a bit too much like speculating to accumulate and I sense a conservative approach is more likely. I reckon there will be a fair few promoters believing that the lack of Sky coverage will encourage more people to go to the tracks.

More workable in my view is the idea mentioned by Flagrag, whereby the BSPA self produce a televised product and Sky pay a reduced fee for the rights to show that. Greyhounds went with that approach when they lost the Sky contract last winter. They had the advantage of having the expertise of the Racing Post TV team to fall back on and also the support of the bookmakers who like to see the sport getting TV exposure so it was perhaps easier for Greyhounds to do this than it will be for Speedway.

May be that promoters will see that thee knock on effects of TV exposure for their other sponsors will be worth investing in this approach.

As a Speedway fan in exile I have reduced by live viewing to GP's for the past 3 or 4 years and personally I would find it unlikely I would bother paying for a subscription to a streaming service. The Elite League has been so poor the past couple of years with teams seemingly relying more and more on RR and guests that I would rather stick with the GP weekends. The domestic scene would need a major overhaul before I would be thinking about putting my hand in my pocket.

[The White Knight]

Interesting thread. Fair play to Steve for kicking it off.

Having said that I can't see the BSPA grasping this particular nettle. Setting up their own subscription streaming service would be a bit too much like speculating to accumulate and I sense a conservative approach is more likely. I reckon there will be a fair few promoters believing that the lack of Sky coverage will encourage more people to go to the tracks.

More workable in my view is the idea mentioned by Flagrag, whereby the BSPA self produce a televised product and Sky pay a reduced fee for the rights to show that. Greyhounds went with that approach when they lost the Sky contract last winter. They had the advantage of having the expertise of the Racing Post TV team to fall back on and also the support of the bookmakers who like to see the sport getting TV exposure so it was perhaps easier for Greyhounds to do this than it will be for Speedway.

May be that promoters will see that thee knock on effects of TV exposure for their other sponsors will be worth investing in this approach.

As a Speedway fan in exile I have reduced by live viewing to GP's for the past 3 or 4 years and personally I would find it unlikely I would bother paying for a subscription to a streaming service. The Elite League has been so poor the past couple of years with teams seemingly relying more and more on RR and guests that I would rather stick with the GP weekends. The domestic scene would need a major overhaul before I would be thinking about putting my hand in my pocket.

 

............................ and Premier League Riders.

[pandorum]

The Swedish 2nd tier does this on a subscription basis and used to show these matches free on the internet.

If it was done well and not too expensive it may appeal to some.

 

Perhaps some sponsors and advertisers could become involved to offset cost especially if they offered sponsor/advertisers some decent coverage at the startline, bends etc and during the meeting with perhaps between racing advertising.

 

For me the first hurdle is the nature of the people who would have to make the effort to do such a thing.

Could a shallow bunch of blinkered, self centred, spiteful individuals work together to make something like this a reality?

 

I won't hold my breath but echo the kudos to Mr Shovlar for some food for thought on an intelligent thread.

[arthur cross]

More workable in my view is the idea mentioned by Flagrag, whereby the BSPA self produce a televised product and Sky pay a reduced fee for the rights to show that. Greyhounds went with that approach when they lost the Sky contract last winter. They had the advantage of having the expertise of the Racing Post TV team to fall back on and also the support of the bookmakers who like to see the sport getting TV exposure so it was perhaps easier for Greyhounds to do this than it will be for Speedway.

May be that promoters will see that thee knock on effects of TV exposure for their other sponsors will be worth investing in this approach.

As a Speedway fan in exile I have reduced by live viewing to GP's for the past 3 or 4 years and personally I would find it unlikely I would bother paying for a subscription to a streaming service. The Elite League has been so poor the past couple of years with teams seemingly relying more and more on RR and guests that I would rather stick with the GP weekends. The domestic scene would need a major overhaul before I would be thinking about putting my hand in my pocket.

 

To sum up a lengthier post I've already made this week in the Sky-2014 thread, it's my understanding from greyhound contacts that a year ago when the dog racing authorities, the bookies and Sky were negotiating the compromised coverage deal Salty mentions, it cropped up in those discussions that speedway would be in the same boat now ... however, Sky's bosses already didn't see how speedway could bring together a similar compromise.

 

Meanwhlle, Salty has just proved what I mentioned in this thread earlier today that it'll be easy for armchair speedway fans to settle for their speedway via Eurosport on plenty of Saturday nights next year at no extra cost to their normal satellite/cable costs ... I've no problem with Salty (or anyone else) admitting that but it highlights the uphill battle to establish enough Elite League online subscriptions.

 

By the way, for those who haven't yet seen Kent's National League venue, Sky's live greyhounds starts at 7.30 on its annual trip to Sittingbourne culminating in the Grand National at 9.04 & the Kent Derby at 9,19

Edited October 17, 2013 by arthur cross

[The White Knight]

To sum up a lengthier post I've already made this week in the Sky-2014 thread, it's my understanding from greyhound contacts that a year ago when the dog racing authorities, the bookies and Sky were negotiating the compromised coverage deal Salty mentions, it cropped up in those discussions that speedway would be in the same boat now ... however, Sky's bosses already didn't see how speedway could bring together a similar compromise.

 

Meanwhlle, Salty has just proved what I mentioned in this thread earlier today that it'll be easy for armchair speedway fans to settle for their speedway via Eurosport on plenty of Saturday nights next year at no extra cost to their normal satellite/cable costs ... I've no problem with Salty (or anyone else) admitting that but it highlights the uphill battle to establish enough Elite League online subscriptions.

 

But is the Elite League a good enough Product to actually sell. I somehow doubt it. :sad:

[ABS]

There's quite a few of us on here who like the odd bet on the EL. I don't know what the cumulative take is by the bookies from the live meetings in isolation, but perhaps an approach to the likes of Bet 365 or Bet Victor might be in order. If betting on live meetings is profitable, they might wish to protect that revenue stream? Skybet must have been one of the only bookmaking sponsors not to offer day to day odds on the league they were sponsoring and if Sky doesn't renew does the Skybet "sponsorship" disappear too?

 

If you could get the likes of Bet 365 to sponsor the broadcasts, maybe BT or even Eurosport would be interested in showing it?

[arthur cross]

There's quite a few of us on here who like the odd bet on the EL. I don't know what the cumulative take is by the bookies from the live meetings in isolation, but perhaps an approach to the likes of Bet 365 or Bet Victor might be in order. If betting on live meetings is profitable, they might wish to protect that revenue stream? Skybet must have been one of the only bookmaking sponsors not to offer day to day odds on the league they were sponsoring and if Sky doesn't renew does the Skybet "sponsorship" disappear too?

 

If you could get the likes of Bet 365 to sponsor the broadcasts, maybe BT or even Eurosport would be interested in showing it?

 

Most (if not all) bookmaking companies will tell you that speedway's very low down their list of priorities compared to other sports.

 

The Racing Post usually has just a few preview-paragraphs on the Saturday of each Grand Prix but only properly covers the Elite League with a full-page to cover the season-opening odds each March (individual live meetings sometimes get a mention, usually sarcastically, in that paper's tv-listings).

 

To put that into context with how the Racing Post previews other sports (presumably in response with their betting interest), it carries several paragraphs going into every live Super League rugby league game shown on Sky (ditto for the BBC's Challenge Cup games in that sport), at least 4 paragraphs going into every NFL American Football game shown on Sky, Channel-4 or Eurosport and today it's found room for 8 paragraphs covering the last-16 tennis matches at the men's Stockholm Open and women's Luxembourg Open (and that's pretty typical of the amount of space it gives even the more routine events on the tennis tours) ... I don't remember seeing any preview 10 days ago of the 1st leg of the Elite League Grand Final and there certainly wasn't any preview of the 2nd leg on either Monday or Tuesday this week.

 

Skybet's sponsorship of the Elite League probably amounted to "nobody else wanted to sponsor it so we might as well stick our our bookmaking firm's name on it".

 

Yes, quite a few of us on this forum like having a speedway bet but we're the ones that follow the sport closely and therefore we're betting with what the bookies would regard as "fairly well-informed money" rather than betting with what's known as "mug money" if we're just having a bet for the sake of giving us an interest on whatever sport happens to be on the telly this evening.

 

The odds should still be tipped enough in the bookies' favour for them to make a small overall profit from all our "fairly well-informed money" but they'll expect to make a much better rate of profit from the "mug money".

 

Sports that are better known to the general public will attract much more "mug money" and that's why companies like bet365 willingly sponsor coverage of the various top football divisions of Europe as well as all levels of our domestic football ... as it's a quiet midweek after Tuesday's World Cup football, tonight's main live game was the Conference clash between Macclesfield and Southport but a fair number of "mug money" viewers will have still wanted to have their favourite type of football bet as part of their evening's relaxation and therefore those viewers will have placed bets despite only recognizing a couple of names in either line-up who they've seen in higher divisions in the past.

 

Unfortunately, speedway's always going to struggle attract much "mug money" as its action isn't punter-friendly ... its heats only involve 4 riders at a time, seriously limiting the size of a big payout for a shock winner and the line-up for many heats can change at the last moment due to injuries or reserve-switches.

 

A league match (unlike a Grand Prix) also has the complication of what we admire as team-riding but which might prove infuriating for the punter who's bet on a rider to win a heat and then watches that rider skilfully look after 2nd-place while his partner leads in a 5-1 ... good luck finding a bookie who pays out on the runner-up as a winner in that scenario !!

Edited October 17, 2013 by arthur cross

[crazysue]

I wouldn't pay £20 a month for it......I cancelled my Sky sports earlier in the year due to the cost and now just use Eurosport for the GP's.

 

That said, there have been some good ideas on this thread and for those who rely on televised meetings, maybe because they cannot make meetings in real life, it would be a godsend if a way forward could be found.

[mickthemuppet]

 

 

Skybet's sponsorship of the Elite League probably amounted to "nobody else wanted to sponsor it so we might as well stick our our bookmaking firm's name on it".

 

 

It's news to me that Skybet's sponsored the Elite league. I dont think they have done so for the last 5 years . Thet used to lay odds on every Elite League match until they were taken to the cleaners with the infamous Ipswich v Reading match.