PHILIPRISING Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Can anyone explain to me how come the kray twins (Russell brothers) seem to hold so much power regarding british speedway. They were hardly a resounding success as promoters and what process did they go through to hold the rights to speedway on tv and who if anyone held them before? I THINK you under-estimate the contribution of Terry Russell to British speedway. More often that not has put his money where his mouth is and is doing so again at Swindon. It was Terry who secured the original Sky deal and as such he continued to be the negotiator between the BSPA and Sky or others. Of course, he has taken a percentage but without him there probably wouldn't have been a Sky deal in the first place. I can still remember a case many moons ago when the BSPA objected to a sponsorship broker getting 10 per cent of a lucrative deal. Instead of 90 per cent of something they finished up with 100 per cent of nothing. I appreciate Terry has his critics, not least on here, but have said before that if I wanted someone to go into a contract deal for me then TR, shrewd East End boy that he is, would be top of my list. Plus, of course, it is to his own benefit to get the best deal possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 It was Terry who secured the original Sky deal and as such he continued to be the negotiator between the BSPA and Sky or others. Of course, he has taken a percentage but without him there probably wouldn't have been a Sky deal in the first place. I can still remember a case many moons ago when the BSPA objected to a sponsorship broker getting 10 per cent of a lucrative deal. Instead of 90 per cent of something they finished up with 100 per cent of nothing. Does he pay anything for the rights to British Speedway though? Or is he just a broker working on a commission? Could (say) a professional sports sponsorship company just decide to have a go at negotiating with ITV4 off their own bat, and just claim a commission if successful? Or do the Russells have some kind of stranglehold over the sport that would stop another party coming in and doing the same thing that they do on a level playing field basis? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Does he pay anything for the rights to British Speedway though? Or is he just a broker working on a commission? Could (say) a professional sports sponsorship company just decide to have a go at negotiating with ITV4 off their own bat, and just claim a commission if successful? Or do the Russells have some kind of stranglehold over the sport that would stop another party coming in and doing the same thing that they do on a level playing field basis? An interesting question is that JL. I wonder if it will get an answer. :unsure: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) It was Terry who secured the original Sky deal and as such he continued to be the negotiator between the BSPA and Sky or others. Of course, he has taken a percentage but without him there probably wouldn't have been a Sky deal in the first place. What a nonsensical statement to make. I am sure that there were 'probably' several people who could have negotiated a deal within the ranks of the motley crew known as the BSPA. I can still remember a case many moons ago when the BSPA objected to a sponsorship broker getting 10 per cent of a lucrative deal. Instead of 90 per cent of something they finished up with 100 per cent of nothing. Which tells you all you need to know about these people Edited October 21, 2013 by pandorum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 What a nonsensical statement to make. I am sure that there were 'probably' several people who could have negotiated a deal within the ranks of the motley crew known as the BSPA. Which tells you all you need to know about these people WHICH begs the question: why didn't they? It was Terry, then Chairman or President (cannot remember which) of the BSPA who got off his backside and secured a TV deal when none looked likely. Credit where it is due... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 It was Terry who secured the original Sky deal and as such he continued to be the negotiator between the BSPA and Sky or others. Of course, he has taken a percentage but without him there probably wouldn't have been a Sky deal in the first place. I think being in the right place at right time rather than being a super negotiator was a lot to do with it. In the late 90s SKY were pretty desperate for material to "show between ads" and speedway fitted the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 An interesting question is that JL. I wonder if it will get an answer. :unsure: I IMAGINE that if the BSPA have charged Terry with getting a TV deal then it would be an exclusive arrangement. Wouldn't show the BSPA up in a good light if several promoters went around knocking on the same doors. I think being in the right place at right time rather than being a super negotiator was a lot to do with it. In the late 90s SKY were pretty desperate for material to "show between ads" and speedway fitted the bill. THE deal still had to be done. You are not being very gracious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 THE deal still had to be done. You are not being very gracious... Well yes but in reality it wasn't about getting speedway on TV, that was pretty much a certainty at the time, it was more a case of maximising its benefit to the sport. Did Terry Russell achieve that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABS Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 WHICH begs the question: why didn't they? It was Terry, then Chairman or President (cannot remember which) of the BSPA who got off his backside and secured a TV deal when none looked likely. Credit where it is due... So Terry had an official role within the BSPA at the time, did he? If so, he surely should have been working on behalf of the BSPA during the negotiations and not on behalf of his company. The phrase "conflict of interests" springs to mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrotron Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Rumor has it BT Sport are looking into the possibility of showing EL next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 So Terry had an official role within the BSPA at the time, did he? If so, he surely should have been working on behalf of the BSPA during the negotiations and not on behalf of his company. The phrase "conflict of interests" springs to mind. HE was working on behalf of the BSPA... don't recall speedway on TV (certainly not to the extent that Sky cover it) being a certainty at the time. Several people had tried and failed. Some people here allow their personal prejudices to colour their judgement. Cannot really blame Terry if his fellow promoters have failed to capitalise on the millions that he had brokered for the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) "Cannot really blame Terry if his fellow promoters have failed to capitalise on the millions that he had brokered for the sport." Edited October 21, 2013 by Crump99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Surely with the advent of digital tv, speedway was always going to be televised. Digital tv is the only reason that BSI/IMG took on the world championship .... Edited October 21, 2013 by Trees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) HE was working on behalf of the BSPA... don't recall speedway on TV (certainly not to the extent that Sky cover it) being a certainty at the time. Several people had tried and failed. As others have pointed, it was a different landscape with the advent of multi-channel satellite and cable than when there were just the 3 or 4 terrestrial channels. Okay, someone had to go out and get a deal, but equally far less mainstream sports than speedway got deals too, and probably for more money. Not suggesting that British speedway could have done any better, but it was hardly anything revolutionary by the late-1990s. Edited October 21, 2013 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Rumor has it BT Sport are looking into the possibility of showing EL next year Excellent news, perhaps someone should send them a link to some of these threads to show them the positivity we all have about our sport… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) I IMAGINE that if the BSPA have charged Terry with getting a TV deal then it would be an exclusive arrangement. Wouldn't show the BSPA up in a good light if several promoters went around knocking on the same doors. i've no problem with the BSPA paying Terry Russell a fee to broker the original deal with Sky around 15 years ago (former boxing promoter Jarvis Astaire did the same-style brokering for greyhound racing with Sky at that time) ... no problem either with someone having an exclusive deal to be the BSPA's negotiator at each renewal stage But has any "exclusive arrangement" between the BSPA and Terry Russell over getting a tv-deal ever had its own time-limit, after which it would be due up for its own renewal or re-tendering ? ... or is it effectively a permanent arrangement that won't end until both sides agree to it ? In this sort of matter, roughly 15 years is an enormous length of time for the same "exclusive arrangement" to still be in place !! Edited October 21, 2013 by arthur cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) i've no problem with the BSPA paying Terry Russell a fee to broker the original deal with Sky around 15 years ago (former boxing promoter Jarvis Astaire did the same-style brokering for greyhound racing with Sky at that time) ... no problem either with someone having an exclusive deal to be the BSPA's negotiator at each renewal stage But has any "exclusive arrangement" between the BSPA and Terry Russell over getting a tv-deal ever had its own time-limit, after which it would be due up for its own renewal or re-tendering ? ... or is it effectively a permanent arrangement that won't end until both sides agree to it ? In this sort of matter, roughly 15 years is an enormous length of time for the same "exclusive arrangement" to still be in place !! Quite agree. In my time I can't ever remember having a discussion or hearing of an agreement to hand the negotiation rights to Terry exclusively. No problems with the initial "finders fee", but surely once it has been found it isn't 'found' every 3 or 5 years the contract when it is renegotiated. 20% of something, is much better that 100% of nothing, but the rights should have a natural end to them. Edited October 21, 2013 by Tsunami 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABS Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 HE was working on behalf of the BSPA... don't recall speedway on TV (certainly not to the extent that Sky cover it) being a certainty at the time. Several people had tried and failed. Some people here allow their personal prejudices to colour their judgement. Cannot really blame Terry if his fellow promoters have failed to capitalise on the millions that he had brokered for the sport. If this is the case, one would expect that somewhere within the minutes of meetings held by the BSPA there will be a specific annotation appointing Go Speed with the responsibilty of selling the TV rights to speedway in return for a finders fee. What I find difficult to comprehend is that if Terry was a member of the BSPA, why would he not do the work on behalf of the organisation, as opposed to on behalf of a company of which he was a director? You mention that several people had tried and failed to sell the rights - care to put some names to the people? I do share your opinion that his fellow promoters haven't capitalised on the opportunity, but there are other threads that go into this. One thing is for sure is that diluting the product whilst increasing prices is a certain recipie for failure, especially when money is tight. HE was working on behalf of the BSPA... don't recall speedway on TV (certainly not to the extent that Sky cover it) being a certainty at the time. Several people had tried and failed. Some people here allow their personal prejudices to colour their judgement. Cannot really blame Terry if his fellow promoters have failed to capitalise on the millions that he had brokered for the sport. If this is the case, one would expect that somewhere within the minutes of meetings held by the BSPA there will be a specific annotation appointing Go Speed with the responsibilty of selling the TV rights to speedway in return for a finders fee. What I find difficult to comprehend is that if Terry was a member of the BSPA, why would he not do the work on behalf of the organisation, as opposed to on behalf of a company of which he was a director? You mention that several people had tried and failed to sell the rights - care to put some names to the people? I do share your opinion that his fellow promoters haven't capitalised on the opportunity, but there are other threads that go into this. One thing is for sure is that diluting the product whilst increasing prices is a certain recipie for failure, especially when money is tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 If this is the case, one would expect that somewhere within the minutes of meetings held by the BSPA there will be a specific annotation appointing Go Speed with the responsibilty of selling the TV rights to speedway in return for a finders fee. What I find difficult to comprehend is that if Terry was a member of the BSPA, why would he not do the work on behalf of the organisation, as opposed to on behalf of a company of which he was a director? I remember hearing that some years ago, the BSPA took the decision to award a percentage of any revenue brought into the sport by one of its members. I'm not entirely sure TR would have been a member of BSPA at the time of negotiating the contract as I think you had to have promoted in the last 3 years to be one. Was he not honorary president or some such title? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABS Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I remember hearing that some years ago, the BSPA took the decision to award a percentage of any revenue brought into the sport by one of its members. I'm not entirely sure TR would have been a member of BSPA at the time of negotiating the contract as I think you had to have promoted in the last 3 years to be one. Was he not honorary president or some such title? Hopefully, someone (Philip?) can provide us with definitive facts. It's just that I feel that it's the norm for people serving on committees to work on behalf of the committee and not for the benefit of themselves, or companies that they are directors of. No doubt something was agreed to, otherwise you would have heard something from the promoters. I don't have a problem with Go Speed earning commissions from the deal, it's just the morality of the situation that I'm questioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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