Leicester 2014 . Elite

[weatherwatcher]

As already stated this is a public forum, people come on here to post their points of view, as a public forum it is up to us to make sure that what we write is not harmful or abusive. But as on all forums you will always get a few who jump in with both feet and all guns blazing. We should all bve able to make our comments about the article in question and not reply with calling people name like silloy school boys behind the bike sheds. Some people can take it others find in very hurtfull and it can cause them great anguish.

So much so that they just give up once bitten twice swhy,

No doubt I shall get a reply of the same nature but my back is broad enough to take it. Come on guys lets clean up the act. People don't need it we aare here to comment on Speedway not about people personal lives.

[TMW]

Trouble is as no one knows who he is or even if his name is Mick (he could be alluding to Mickey Mouse or even taking the ...., Isuppose)Then people wont take him seriously. It is very easy to come on here and hide and spout all the bile you want to. People even hide behind assumed names on FB these days......... Sad. People have even been known to have multi accounts on here just to agree with each other and they call me childish :-)

[Gemini]

 

 

Trouble is as no one knows who he is or even if his name is Mick (he could be alluding to Mickey Mouse or even taking the ...., Isuppose)......

 

I think the person he is actually referring to is 'jim the whipper' not Mick, but whether his name is really Jim is another matter.

[wandersome]

Your not very good at reading threads are you Mick. I said Lions cant offer top flight racing to any rider - I never mentioned Hansen, I just quoted a fact. This will not change untill (if) they are alowed in to whatever is the top flight in 2014. Lets also recognise that Coventry is a top speedway club and as a young rider I guess Hansen felt whatever deal was offered to him was good enough to accept v any other offers that came his way and he is now set for next season nice & early which has got to be good for the kid.

As for the payment thing - I know enough to back what I stated.

As for being a winner - DH brings speedway back to Leicester in a new stadium with FIM international recognition, support/attendance is good v other clubs and the top flight begin to make positive noises about admitting the Lions into the top flight after only 3 years of opperation. I dont expect this can be achieved without doing a lot of things right behind the scenes and maybe breaking even or even operating at an affordable loss in the formative years is acceptable. Overall, I cant see anything to point to failure in running the business. What do you see Mick? And please dont say p***** off sponsors is one, because sometimes (unfortunately) sponsors forget that they are sponsors not owners or promoters and try to push the boundries in that regard. Also sometimes sponsors dont always provide what they said they will provide. In other words there is always at least two sides to the story and whilst DH has made mistakes, I see that he has made more right decisions than wrong, and I and I believe many other Lions supporters wish him & his promotion all the best in continuing to bring what is a far from wealthy sport to Leicester.

I do my best when reading the threads. Admittedly some posts do involve a level of assumption and as the general discussion at the time was about Coventry beating us to the signing of Hansen when you mentioned how we couldn't sign any riders until we were Elite i have to say i took the assumption that you were intimating that this was a factor in Hansen not signing for us.

Other than that my response was about the difference of opinion we have about whether Mr Hemsley is a winner. That's what debate is all about. You make your point, i make mine, sometimes we sway our opinion sometimes we don't. I'm guessing on this point we don't.

 

But as you ask me here is what i see. I'm not of the belief that crowds have held up this year. i'm of the opinoin that crowds are falling alarmingly. I'm not of the opinion that the track has produced racing of a decent enough quality to improve matters with the crowd (EL or not) or improve the racing (EL or not). Whilst i know only a small amount of Lions fans who go to Beaumont Park i know of not one who is happy with the product on offer. Of the few that do still go most do so on the basis of not wanting to lose it. 3 years in i no longer think that's a good enough reason. I'm of the opinion that the rumours i regularly hear with regards to things such as the missing track equipment issue, Kauko's testimonial stadium rental issues, fall outs with co-promoters, fall outs with sponsors, fall outs with riders, the payments of services with regards to work done on the stadium by friends of the speedway and rumours of his general attitude to those around him all sound like alarm bells ringing. These rumours may be right, they may be wrong but i hear so many of them week in week out that my opinion has been formed by them over the course of this year.

 

I'm am, however, interested in which sponsors you are alluding to with regards crossing boundaries as that's the first i've heard of this. I'm also interested in which sponsors you believe have failed to provide the backing they promised as again, i've not heard anything?

 

On to my main gripe, the reason TMW might say i spout my bile. I have sponsored Leicester for 3 years and have taken out 2 season tickets on each of those years. After the first year i asked for and recieved assurances both written and in person that the track would be altered as i didn't believe the standard of racing was up to me parting with my money. I was told by David Hemsley in person and in writing that rest assured changes had actually already been made. I paid my money, over a thousand pounds, only to find out nothing had been altered at all. Last season almost exactly the same happened except for i didn't feel the need to ask for assurances as DH had made them publicly and Glyn Taylor had described what was being done. Except it didn't get done at all. Because of the quality of the racing my wife has used her season ticket maybe 5 or 6 times this year. A bit of superficial fudging by Dave Darcy with the track but that was it. Actually, whilst i'm thinking about it, having a conversation with David Hemsley whilst handing over my cheque and him not mentioning to me the absolutely imminent naming of Dave Darcy as Co-Promoter also does stick in my craw a bit. I certainly wouldn't have paid any money over to Leicester if i'd known he was involved but there you go. The final straw is the fact that i have season tickets that are £40 short of the their value, the promotion know this and yet they appear to have made no effort to address this publicly at all. If you read my post about the last meeting, or Stevethelions response, you might understand what was the straw that has broken the camels back, but equally you might not.. you might, like TMW, just see it as more bile from me aimed at her friends. But there you go.

 

Whilst we can debate the in and outs of David Hemsley's success at Leicester I guess the proof of my convictions will be seen next year. I'm of the opinion that it will be a disaster, you are not. I guess sometime mid-season one of us will be able to give it the 'told you so's' should we so wish. Whilst i guess i won't be there to find out in person i hope you're actually right and it is a success after all. As mentioned above i feel i've had money extracted from me under false promises and downright lies these past two seasons so i'll be joining all the others that feel they have a genuine grievance in finding myself something else to do of a saturday night (or whatever night the Lions run) next year.

 

I think the person he is actually referring to is 'jim the whipper' not Mick, but whether his name is really Jim is another matter.

Tina just felt there was an opportunity to get a dig at me in i think. At least i think it's Tina!!

A big welcome don't let them put you off

 

weatherwatcher, oneandtwohalfs has been on the forum for a long time and has posted fairly regularly as far as i recall. You would obviously know that as you mentioned you'd been monitering the site for some time before becoming a member last week and before you started setting us all to rights so i'm not sure why you're giving him a big welcome? Shouldn't he be the one giving you, as the newcomer to the forum, a big welcome.

 

Irrespective, I, having read his views on here for quite sometime, believe oneandtwohalfs big enough to look after himself without your help as the newly self appointed Leicester forum policeman.. he's even seems big enough to enter a proper debate without calling anyone who disagrees with him an idiot, or any view that does't concur with his own as bile. Not always the way with everyone though.

 

No doubt this is just the kind of response you were expecting and as such feel free to point knowingly in my direction

Edited October 30, 2013 by volty

[TMW]

On to my main gripe, the reason TMW might say i spout my bile. I have sponsored Leicester for 3 years and have taken out 2 season tickets on each of those years. After the first years i asked for and recieved assurances both written and in person that the track would be altered as i didn't believe the standard of racing was up to me parting with my money. I was told by David Hemsley in person and in writing that rest assured changes had actually already been made. I paid my money, a thousand pounds, only to find out nothing had been altered at all. Last season almost exactly the same happened except for i didn't feel the need to ask for assurances as DH had made them publicly and Glyn Taylor had described what was being done. Except it didn't get done at all. Because of the quality of the racing my wife has used her season ticket maybe 5 or 6 times this year. A bit of superficial fudging by Dave Darcy with the track but that was it. Actually, whilst i'm thinking about it, having a conversation with David Hemsley whilst handing over my cheque and him not mentioning to me the absolutely imminent naming of Dave Darcy as Co-Promoter also does stick in my craw a bit. I certainly wouldn't have paid any money over to Leicester if i'd known he was involved but there you go. The final straw is the fact that i have season tickets that are £40 short of the their value, the promotion know this and yet they appear to have made no effort to address this publicly at all. If you read my post about the last meeting, or Stevethelions response, you might understand what was the straw that has broken the camels back, but equally you might not.. you might, like TMW, just see it as more bile from me aimed at her friends. But there you go.

You certainly won't be getting any I told you so's from me. I will just be pleased we have survived another season. Proving whether you are right or wrong holds no consequence to me.

[1 valve]

Mick, I wouldn’t want you to think I am putting DH on anything like a pedestal as in previous posts I have pointed out that he has made mistakes. I have also agreed that (in my opinion) the track features straights that are too long for the corners. Although on this last point I think the better riders see this as less of an issue particularly since the alterations made at the end of last year have given better choice of entrance & exit lines.

I also appreciate that folk on this forum have a right to voice their opinion although not so much those who get personal in their views to other forum members which is far from constructive. Similarly views expressed on DH or the promotion in general can be negative as well as positive but again no need for rudeness. And I should say your post is constructive even if they do (in my opinion) state an unnecessarily unfair attack on the promotion. However I also recognise that sometimes complaints result in positive action and nothing would please me more than to see superior racing at BP either via track changes or top flight racing. Both of which will cost more money than I think people in general realise.

On the point I make re sponsors overstepping the mark, my point is that the promotion put on a show and the sponsors should decide if they can get a return on their investment be it publicity, customer entertainment or similarly for large corporate sponsors or even just self satisfaction for the love of giving that extra bit to support the club/rider. My point is that sponsors should not expect to make their support conditional beyond normal circumstances. i.e. it would be fair for a beer company to expect their products to be sold in the bar. But asking a promoter to change the shape of the track? Or (not that you have done) which riders should ride in what positions? I think that is overstepping the mark.

As for next year, I am not looking to say “told you so” more that I hope speedway in Leicester does go from strength to strength which frankly should be possible if we see better riders and better teams week in week out although I quickly add, speedway generally in the UK needs to take a big look at itself in order to provide a better product than what we see today. But that’s another subject discussed elsewhere on this forum.

Mick I truly hope you get the speedway you wish for in 2014 and beyond wherever that may be.

[jenga]

if the lions go elite in 2014, there will be 30 heats of speedway in one nights racing.

[weatherwatcher]

I for one are glad to see that leicester have managed to do what they have done in three years, it was no mean feat.

Has I have said before speedway is not just about overtaking it is the skill of the riders to stop it happening.

And Mick my back id big enough for any comments and I can take them. Just hope you find another stadium that you will be happy with in the coming years and all the best of luck to you and I hope that you do not lose interest in the sport.

There must be a team that you will feel that you can give your full support to I hope so as it would be a shame to lose a suppoter to speedway to any other sport. Hope you enjoy your speedway for many years to come best of Luck.

[jim the whipper]

What's the point in trying to join in on a forum when you just get torrents of abuse back in return.

I have never made any negative remarks to you and as far as I can remember this is my first direct contact with you on this forum. Thanks for the welcome!

Oh , shame about you not being new to speedway as that would at least have gone some way towards explaining your stupid replies

 

If that's a torrent of abuse , you must have led a very sheltered life .

[wandersome]

My point is that sponsors should not expect to make their support conditional beyond normal circumstances. i.e. it would be fair for a beer company to expect their products to be sold in the bar. But asking a promoter to change the shape of the track? Or (not that you have done) which riders should ride in what positions? I think that is overstepping the mark.

 

 

My point would be i wouldn't see a problem with a sponsor making their support conditional (such as i did) as long as it is done before sponsorship has been formerly taken out and not after the event and used as a way of pressurising the promotion. The overstepping the mark in my case was for the promotion to pretend they had done something in order to get my money rather than just say track changes aren't happening and we will have to decline your offer. Here is how i was reassured that i should pay my cheque as track work had been carried out.. this is after year 1 remember, not after the superficial alterations of last winter.. 'With regard to the 3^rd bend, I am sure the proof will be in the pudding, so to speak. But by moving in the kerb on the entry, increasing the banking on the entry and increasing the banking on the exit, which also includes lifting the safety fence to accommodate the new track level, I would hope we have tried to cover all the potential issues at this time'.

I was told these are things that had actually been done. when they clearly hadn't.

 

Last year he did a similar thing but on a grander scale by making it public that track changes were again going to be made after putting out a questionaire. I renewed my season tickets and sponsorship on that basis.

Edited December 17, 2013 by volty

[Long Eye]

Are you sure you are going to the correct stadium Volty? The track changes were done and have been well discussed on here and Facebook.

[wandersome]

Are you sure you are going to the correct stadium Volty? The track changes were done and have been well discussed on here and Facebook.

You're absolutely right Long Eye, the track changes were made. Unfortunately DH was describing these changes in Jan 2012 when the alterations that were made were done in Feb 2013

 

I do remember the 'track changes' of 2012 being discussed on here though. If i remember rightly mostly along the lines of 'what happened to those track changes, someones having a laugh', although that may also have been 2013 i'm thinking about.

Edited October 30, 2013 by volty

[Nobblytriers]

If the Elite League survives into 2014 and therefor there is a choice , Which league would you like to see the Lions in ? Supporters of other teams are welcome should they wish to participate , and wit and sarcasm are totally acceptable , But personal abuse is not .

Whilst it would be good to see some of the big boys at BP, I think I'd opt for staying where we are in the PL. We'd have more regular meetings with a wider range of teams and we'd still get to see alot of riders that ride EL anyway. It would probably stop the price from going up too much as well!

 

Slightly off topic, with regards to the playoffs, I'd like to think that a 'Plan B' could be put in place to keep the season going for the teams that don't progress. Maybe something along the lines of a memorial trophy. Maybe it would help keep the gate receipts up to a steady level throughout the season.

[john birch]

As a Coventry fan I really enjoy my visits to Beaumont Park to see Premier League racing, particularly given the waste of time it was supporting Bees this year - but with one caveat. Whilst I give kudos to Dave Hemsley for getting the Lions up and running, building a great little stadium and putting out a good team (give or take the reserves), it could be so much better if the track was made more like Somerset, with a rounder shape and wider entries to the bends. Three years in, it really is time for meaningful action re the track shape.

[nobrakeshere1]

As a Coventry fan I really enjoy my visits to Beaumont Park to see Premier League racing, particularly given the waste of time it was supporting Bees this year - but with one caveat. Whilst I give kudos to Dave Hemsley for getting the Lions up and running, building a great little stadium and putting out a good team (give or take the reserves), it could be so much better if the track was made more like Somerset, with a rounder shape and wider entries to the bends. Three years in, it really is time for meaningful action re the track shape.

Comments are all spot on tiberon. Nothing wrong with the place, it's a great stadium, but there is very little entertainment on track. We gave up going ages ago and that means over £1000 lost in revenue from our little group alone. A few more voting with their feet like we have and it becomes blindingly obvious that the best business decision would have been to make "real" changes to the track. EL or PL? I don't care, just give me a track that offers some entertainment.

[jim the whipper]

It seems that No Gp riders will be allowed in the SEC , so now Almost every Saturday will see the top riders (and the not so top ) occupied with riding in big money competition in Europe , I would think that rules out weekend racing for the Lions if they choose Elite League Sorry Mrcts just could not help myself having another dig at Leicester speedway and it's promotion

[mrcts]

It seems that No Gp riders will be allowed in the SEC , so now Almost every Saturday will see the top riders (and the not so top ) occupied with riding in big money competition in Europe , I would think that rules out weekend racing for the Lions if they choose Elite League Sorry Mrcts just could not help myself having another dig at Leicester speedway and it's promotion

Don't kid yourself,I couldn't care two s h I t e s what you think

[wandersome]

Comments are all spot on tiberon. Nothing wrong with the place, it's a great stadium, but there is very little entertainment on track. We gave up going ages ago and that means over £1000 lost in revenue from our little group alone. A few more voting with their feet like we have and it becomes blindingly obvious that the best business decision would have been to make "real" changes to the track. EL or PL? I don't care, just give me a track that offers some entertainment.

Same here, £1000 + lost going forward, probably considerably more if alterations had been made.. In the last meeting David Hemsley told me the entertainment we all witnessed at the Coventry meeting vindicated his decision to not alter the track. I'm afraid from next season i'm joining the majority in leaving the minority, David Hemsley included, to get on with whatever enjoyment they are getting out of BP whilst they still can.. If we go EL then I'll at least be able to get along to quite a few more Lions away meetings if we we are still around..

 

Mick.

Edited November 4, 2013 by volty

[Gemini]

Does he seriously think that was an entertaining meeting? I suppose it was for Leicester fans seeing their riders gate and go if that's what they want but there are other fans, like me, who want to see some good racing. How often does G.P. rider and Kings Lynn star Iversen fall off? Not very often I would guess but he managed it on the notorious 3rd/4th bend.

Still, it's not worth getting into any discussions on here because no-one is going to change their mind and if the track is not going to be altered that's it. Just carry on next season as things are and hope the racing gets better with E.L. riders (if they do go up.)

[wandersome]

Does he seriously think that was an entertaining meeting? I suppose it was for Leicester fans seeing their riders gate and go if that's what they want but there are other fans, like me, who want to see some good racing. How often does G.P. rider and Kings Lynn star Iversen fall off? Not very often I would guess but he managed it on the notorious 3rd/4th bend.

Still, it's not worth getting into any discussions on here because no-one is going to change their mind and if the track is not going to be altered that's it. Just carry on next season as things are and hope the racing gets better with E.L. riders (if they do go up.)

 

I think he did think it was an entertaining meeting, yes.. Along with weatherwatcher he was probably marvelling at the skill shown in those EL stars and their ability to not allow any of those riders at the back do any of that overtaking stuff. It's been good watching Premier league riders not getting passed all season but the Elite league took the skill of not getting passed to a whole new level, i'm sure you'll agree.

Edited November 4, 2013 by volty