kingbee Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 The Wolves match won't count Kingbee as it's after the cut off date.it will for the overall league at the end of season at the end of October Cov could be on top of the league there for with all this going on about the playoffs and league winners we may not know who actually is top until everyone has completed there matches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 What we have now is no different to a lot sports , so its proven, it works. How many sports is lots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fever Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 it will for the overall league at the end of season at the end of October Cov could be on top of the league there for with all this going on about the playoffs and league winners we may not know who actually is top until everyone has completed there matches Its very VERY unlikely though! The only way Coventry will finish top at the end of the season is if Lynn fail to get any more points from their remaining 2 matches (home tomorrow and away BV) and Coventry win everything by the max. It also depends on Poole not getting max points away too (Cov and Leicester)! Obviously if they win tonight at Cov then the Bees won't do it anyway, though ofc I'm rooting for the Bees as it will ensure Lynn stay top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbee Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Its very VERY unlikely though! The only way Coventry will finish top at the end of the season is if Lynn fail to get any more points from their remaining 2 matches (home tomorrow and away BV) and Coventry win everything by the max. It also depends on Poole not getting max points away too (Cov and Leicester)! Obviously if they win tonight at Cov then the Bees won't do it anyway, though ofc I'm rooting for the Bees as it will ensure Lynn stay top i agree with you and I hope King Lynn top the league but at this moment in time there are three teams that can top the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 How many sports is lots? I can't think of one that doesn't apart from Football but even that has a play off system for promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Why would you want to do that ? ...when the format now works so well. People flock to see many top events that only happen once a year but I doubt they would if they were every four weeks it's just common sense . The fans and clubs love the play offs and i doubt that is going to chance because of a few saps who are a bit wet around the ears and have little idea on the money side of speedway . I think the fans of clubs finishing 2nd,3rd and 4th love the play-offs because they have a 2nd bite of the cherry.But the majority of the fans of the club finishing 1st probably less so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fever Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 i agree with you and I hope King Lynn top the league but at this moment in time there are three teams that can top the league Ok technically yes, but realistically I guess anything's possible I can't think of one that doesn't apart from Football but even that has a play off system for promotion. At least in football its ONLY for promotion - teams that win their league are STILL League Champions!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) So do the play offs Ensure there are fair rules NO ..Does not having them Ensure there are fair rules ? all teams know the rules before the start of season so whats not fair about them ? Ensure the rules are applied equally to all NO ..Yet gain does not having them mean that rules are equally applied Ensure journeymen foreigners have loyalty to British clubs Yet again why would show loyalty if there was no play offs Ensure we see the top riders in the world in GB NO Yet again without the play off would it mean the top riders would come ? Help all clubs throughout the whole season NO ...it helps more than the old system as more matches mean more Ensure clubs don't finish their season in mid September .it ensures unlike the old system that the season won't be over as early as june Ensure opportunities for young British riders NO ...Yet again why would not having play offs ensure opportunies for young riders ? I could go on but to be balanced the play offs .. Mean big crowds for 4 clubs on 1 night YES .. Means bigger crowds all year round as the season is kept alive so it's not one night or two nights Means bigger crowds the whole season as clubs have more to ride for Mean a big crowd for 2 of those clubs on a further night MAYBE Keep Sky happy . Keeps fans and clubs alive Well I know which way I think the scales are rocking. Edited September 15, 2014 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Bloody hell I thought we was going to be another man down.Worrall close to putting Schlein through the fence up at Belle Vue tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Noooooooo ffs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Reuben Smith Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 It's funny this play off debate as last year when Lynn were close to 4th place I loved the idea of the play offs. This year I have a very different view on them!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 There you go, fill yer boots! Should also add that Havelock admitted that Coventry were 'just trying a few things as they were already in the play offs'! It doesn't get anymore meaningless than that does it? The announcer said Hansen had his engines done, that didn't work then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 There you go, fill yer boots! Should also add that Havelock admitted that Coventry were 'just trying a few things as they were already in the play offs'! It doesn't get anymore meaningless than that does it? So in the history of league speedway no one has tested a Engine ? ...No doubt if it was a first past the post system and the two mid table team were in a dead rubber match no rider would test set up's ...your train of though does you no favours as under the old system there was always more meaningless matches . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) You just don't get do you? There are meaningless fixtures at the start of the season now, thanks to the pokc because the pokc winners only need to win half their fixtures. Proper league winners need to win at least 75%. There are meaningless fixtures at the end of the season, thanks to the pokc but there did used to be some at the end of the season anyway. BUT There are now meaningless fixtures involving THE TOP TEAMS at the end of the season, thanks to the pokc. The effect on league attendances are plain to see but is ignored by the pokc sycophants because there are a couple of decent attendances for the pokc final! I've been saying the same thing since the pokc was introduced because I realised how it would affect attendances. Nobody listened because they thought the big (lol!) crowds for the final made up for it and at first it probably just about balanced but now it's the elephant in the room. What were you saying about Monday being a 'dead rubber'? The ONLY reason is the pokc otherwise the meeting would have meant as much as this one The biggest gate ever at Wolves I reckon? it's you who don't get it ... you keep going and using examples of why the play offs give matches that don't mean much but forget about the hundreds of examples there has and will be if you had a first past the post system . For every example you give like Mondays I can give 4 or 5 that meant something under the play off system . Not sure what the crowd was at that Wolves match but I expect overall the plays off overall crowd for 6 matches would be way above that plus most of the time a league title is won by june july leaving more of these dead rubber matches you dislike ...or course if that happened no one would test engine set up's etc Edited September 17, 2014 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Go on then, lol! Here are some of the recent meetings involving top teams who had or still have a chance of finishing top but every meeting is meaningless as they qualified for the pokc beforehand. 01-09-14 Belle Vue v Coventry EL 01-09-14 Lakeside v Poole EL 03-09-14 Poole v Wolverhampton EL 04-09-14 Coventry v King's Lynn EL 05-09-14 Lakeside v Poole EL 08-09-14 Swindon v Coventry EL 10-09-14 Poole v Eastbourne EL 11-09-14 Leicester v King's Lynn EL 15-09-14 Coventry v Poole EL 17-09-14 Leicester v Poole EL 22-09-14 Belle Vue v King's Lynn (followed by) EL I just cut and pasted from the BSPA website so there might be some missing. Anyway, that's 11 meetings involving TOP teams who had already qualified for the pokc but otherwise had or still have an outside chance of finishing top and you say you can give 4 or 5 examples for each one. I've already noted your visit to Leicester v Swindon which achieved a total of 100 extra fans so you only need come up with another 54 meetings. Take your time. I thing you forgot about the meaningless fixtures due to the pokc winners only needing to win 50% instead of 75% of their meetings but we can come back to that, you've enough on your plate. Ha ha! I think your forgetting something and that is it is important to win the league as then you can pick who you play in the semi final therefore having a better chance of making it to the very lucrative final. Some would say it is quite important to finish second as you can choose if want the away leg first or second, so not meaningless. So for those team that have the chance still of finishing top very important which is why Poole will go all out for that vital 4 points tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) Go on then, lol! Here are some of the recent meetings involving top teams who had or still have a chance of finishing top but every meeting is meaningless as they qualified for the pokc beforehand. 01-09-14 Belle Vue v Coventry EL 01-09-14 Lakeside v Poole EL 03-09-14 Poole v Wolverhampton EL 04-09-14 Coventry v King's Lynn EL 05-09-14 Lakeside v Poole EL 08-09-14 Swindon v Coventry EL 10-09-14 Poole v Eastbourne EL 11-09-14 Leicester v King's Lynn EL 15-09-14 Coventry v Poole EL 17-09-14 Leicester v Poole EL 22-09-14 Belle Vue v King's Lynn (followed by) EL I just cut and pasted from the BSPA website so there might be some missing. Anyway, that's 11 meetings involving TOP teams who had already qualified for the pokc but otherwise had or still have an outside chance of finishing top and you say you can give 4 or 5 examples for each one. I've already noted your visit to Leicester v Swindon which achieved a total of 100 extra fans so you only need come up with another 54 meetings. Take your time. I thing you forgot about the meaningless fixtures due to the pokc winners only needing to win 50% instead of 75% of their meetings but we can come back to that, you've enough on your plate. Ha ha! Yet again most of those matches still meant something as finishing top means you can pick who you want to ride in the semi also cov swindon had not made the top 4 for certain .. Go back have a rethink they come back with another list instead of rushing and making a fool of yourself ... Edited September 17, 2014 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Me again, I love this debate.... There are fors and against the POKC and I appreciate that, I think having a 4 team KO cup at the end of the season ( That's all it is) is a brilliant idea. What I think is ridiculous is to put a prize of League Champions when it obviously isn't. The instance the POKC were introduced the League was immediately devalued. You say about meaningless fixtures, well now we have loads of them and all because of these POKC. 3 years ago we reached the PO and were subsequently beaten in the semis, but that wasn't our biggest gate. That year Good Friday attracted over 3500 people mostly because of the weather. So all this crap about crowd only wanting POKC is just a fallacy. If the package is right the crowds will come. We don't have to wager the League title just to achieve this........... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 I've heard it all now! There is no comparison in finishing top to have a pick compared to becoming League Champions. I doubt a single extra fan turned up because a team had a chance of 'winning' first pick ffs! I knew you would not even be able to think of 1 'that meant something' never mind the '4 or 5'. What you need to do is think through what you are saying, if I said I can give 4 or 5 examples blah blah then I'd already have it to hand, you just come up with phantom claims and if you backed it with facts then I'd be more than happy to give you a cheery slap on the back of the head. Why are you back tracking ...you made a list that was totally wrong ..rather than trying to move the goal posts do the list again in the correct manner ..and then are give you the examples you ask for . It's not hard even for you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Ha ha! You've managed to score an own goal and I didn't spot it first time around, brilliant work. You're right, when Coventry visited Belle Vue they had not mathematically clinched their play off spot. Therefore there should have been a few extra from Coventry to cheer them on to the pokc (it would have been 100 extra had it been Swindon, although 100 extra didn't turn up for their crucial pokc qualifier at Belle Vue. Doh! another own goal, lol!) but there was not a single cheer or air horn for any Coventry rider although the Belle Vue fans politely clapped their outstanding performance that night. Only you can go down a path which actually defeats your own point of view, I really enjoy discussing the pokc with you. Anyway, well done you spotted it, so take the Aces v Bees meeting out and work on that. Much easier now, only 49 meetings to prove your point, lol! Priceless, absolutely priceless! Yet again more waffle ...just do the list again ...how hard can it be ? the fact is you can't .. next time have a little think because you post info that is clearly wrong then you won't make sure fool of yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) Hardly Mickey Mouse ..no one cares who comes top of the league the play offs is all that matters . Yet again most of those matches still meant something as finishing top means you can pick who you want to ride in the semi also cov swindon had not made the top 4 for certain .. Go back have a rethink they come back with another list instead of rushing and making a fool of yourself ... Edited by orion, Today, 02:05 PM Wasn't sure how to put multiple posts on here.But the other day you were saying nobody cares who tops the league,then you say matches mean something because you want to win the league so you can pick who you want.So somebody cares who wins the league Edited September 17, 2014 by tellboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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