Pirates 2014

[Steve0]

I don't think anyone is trying to hold the sport to ransom - least of all Noddy! I suppose they will be offered a package and, if it's not acceptable, they will race elsewhere

[Starman2006]

Personally think the survival of British Speedway comes before the demands of Chris Holder or any other big ego`d rider...

Thats fresh, coming from somebody who's place put Chris in the position he's in now... Remember that.

[T.N.T.]

If there are three PL teams moving up then there will not be any more league meetings than last year, in fact there will be 4 less as each team will only ride once at home and once away.

 

The start of the season would be filled however with two groups of teams riding in a new competition or the Peter Craven Shield. This would mean there are considerably more meetings overall but hopefully there is only one team moving up (Leicester) to ensure there are 20 home and 20 away meetings.

 

Should two move up (Ipswich) then thwy could go with 22 home and 22 away ...... but will more likely opt for two groups of six (5 home, 5 away) before riding in 11 home and 11 away league matches.

 

 

We all think these riders deserve the money they get for competing in such a dangerous sport and they do. However the money has to be there in the first place and speedway in Britain faces too much competition from football, rugby, horse racing etc while Poland, Sweden and Denmark are not so enthuiastic about those sports as Britain.

 

 

Yes we want to see riders like Holder, Ward, Lindgren and Iversen riding in Britain on a regular basis and they do attract a certain amount of people through the turnstiles. However the sport needs to promote its self better to the non speedway crowd. We have had years of SKY filming league and GP racing and the attendances have not increased over the years.

 

 

You can go into the pub, supermarket or workplace and you will hear people say they have watched it on the TV and enjoyed it but a league meeting on Sky shows 15 minutes of racing in 120 - 150 minutes of TV. However if they went to a league meeting like at Wolverhampton, they would see the first race around 7.45 and heat 15 around 9.15 with an interval inbetween which is much better when you consider there is less than 15 minutes action (14 at Monmore if the times are fast)

 

 

So sorry Chris, I personaly would rather see a bigger league with 40 or 42 league matches and a more balanced set of fixtures. That would mean a reduction in the points limit by a considerabloe amount, possibly dropping to 38 or even as low as 36 when you consider there could be four riders missing next season that are all 9 point riders plus a few more 7 and 8+ riders.

 

 

Personally I have no problem in saying Poole could share the #1 race jacket with Darcy and Chris and each rides 20 meetings but as long as they are 10 home and 10 away each unless prevented by injury. At Wolverhampton we are likely to have Tai Woffinden at #1 but he is going to be as busy as ever next season as he is also riding in Sweden and Poland and possibly the SEC too, so maybe Wolves could share the #1 jacket with Tai and Freddie should Tai also struggle to fit in 40+ meetings.

 

 

If Poole are planning life without the Turbo Twins being in town, I'm sure Matt and Middlo will still sort out a top team even if it's a bit older with Bjarne and Zorro possibly being in the line up in a league where #1 riders will be challenged by second strings more often and more competative racing.

Edited November 16, 2013 by T.N.T.

[Daniel Smith]

It could just work if 3 move up with 24 meetings at home. Between April and September there are 26 weeks. Also there's normally the Back Holiday double header's meetings but there is the 2 week gap for the World Cup.

 

There is space and I would encourage the BSPA to go for it

[Dornier]

Its a regular occurence now at the end of the season where Ward or Holder come up with some plan to suit themselves. British Speedway needs to be run for the fans and ALL league clubs not for the bank balances of the likes of Ward and Holder, The solutions simple if they don`t like it let them go where they think the grass is greener Sweden, Poland, Outer Mongolia. wherever they want. there will ALWAYS be somebody to fill their positions.

Edited November 16, 2013 by dornier

[T.N.T.]

It could just work if 3 move up with 24 meetings at home. Between April and September there are 26 weeks. Also there's normally the Back Holiday double header's meetings but there is the 2 week gap for the World Cup.

 

There is space and I would encourage the BSPA to go for it

 

 

Remember we have the World Team Cup, the New Zealand GP plus a clash of race nights to contend with and that's not allowing for rain offs andthe play offs which would make it near impossible to fit them all in if you had 24 home and 24 away meetings.

 

Plans are that if there are 11 teams they will go with 20 home and 20 away but anymore than 11 ad the season will start with two groups riding in another competition before each team rides each other just once at home and once away. ThreforeI am hoping they stick to just LEICESTER being allowed up and let others wait a year like Leicester have.

[houdi]

 

BUT how many that the casual attendee would cross the road to watch? Precious few riders in the EL who actually do put bums on seats and Holder is unquestionably one of them.

Not really sure of the point you are trying to make. I have not seen anywhere of any plans to stop Holder and Ward riding in the UK. Unlike a few years back when your favourite promoter was in the forefront of driving through the 'only 1 rider over 8.0000000001 rule'. With the sole intention of stopping a certain club tracking 2 riders with a plus 8 point riders, the rule that was conveniently dropped 12 months later. Don't remember you whingeing then.

The simple fact is if Holder and Ward are box office, as you and the other great original thinker Pearson constantly maintain, then presumably Ford will use them again. The stark reality is that the chickens are finally coming home to roost. There maybe multifarious reasons why the sport is struggling, but how many fans have quietly walked away from the sport, disgusted by a sport besmirched with dubious practices.

In Coventry this year we have witnessed first hand what disgusting owners have done to the football club. Over 85-90% of fans are steadfastly refusing to go to Northampton to watch home games, resulting in the club having probably the lowest home gates in the Football League; and yet in 2 weeks they will have the largest away following in England with over 6000 fans willing to travel to MK. Just as football fans here are determined to starve SISU/Otium of funds, due to their crass handling of CCFC, so speedway fans over many years have simply walked away from the sport.

[Woz01]

Thats fresh, coming from somebody who's place put Chris in the position he's in now... Remember that.

This post sums you up perfectly, clueless.

[foreverblue]

Its a regular occurence now at the end of the season where Ward or Holder come up with some plan to suit themselves. British Speedway needs to be run for the fans and ALL league clubs not for the bank balances of the likes of Ward and Holder, The solutions simple if they don`t like it let them go where they think the grass is greener Sweden, Poland, Outer Mongolia. wherever they want. there will ALWAYS be somebody to fill their positions.

 

The sport isn't run for the benefit of Ward or Holder but attendances at away matches where Ward and Holder are present would suffer if they didn't ride here, so they benefit everyone.

[500cc]

Thats fresh, coming from somebody who's place put Chris in the position he's in now... Remember that.

You really shouldn't be saying that. The first part of the quote you responded to was perfectly reasonable and just a matter of debate. The end of that sentence was potentially fuel to a response, depending on a person's viewpoint. But you really shouldn't link it as (I'm presuming) you have.

[Starman2006]

You really shouldn't be saying that. The first part of the quote you responded to was perfectly reasonable and just a matter of debate. The end of that sentence was potentially fuel to a response, depending on a person's viewpoint. But you really shouldn't link it as (I'm presuming) you have.

 

No im just making the point that he come off at Coventry, and contary to what Dornier said, we do needs the Chris Holders in British speedway.. And by the way, Chris has not got a big ego..

Edited November 16, 2013 by Starman2006

[Steve0]

Thats fresh, coming from somebody who's place put Chris in the position he's in now... Remember that.

Really? Too petty for words!!

[Starman2006]

Really? Too petty for words!!

Petty?

[500cc]

 

The sport isn't run for the benefit of Ward or Holder but attendances at away matches where Ward and Holder are present would suffer if they didn't ride here, so they benefit everyone.

I think that is undoubtedly true.

 

The key though is whether the sport can afford it. Does the cost of the top riders outweigh the income they generate? Possibly, but not necessarily. Through sponsorship the additional costs may be offset.

 

It's the second level of the debate that is a bigger issue. Are overall costs being pushed up by the presence of top riders? I would suggest almost certainly. We know for example that to cover Ward's injury last year required Poole to commit £20,000 non refundable. Now Poole can afford that as they are operating at profit. As a model of running a Speedway business, I don't think many disagree that the template is good.

 

But what is happening to the rest of league. To be competitive, they to must invest. Now generally in sport, the aim should be to aspire to those teams setting the bar. But what's happening here, clubs are trying to compete by spending more, but in truth most do not have the financial muscle (and in fairness business skill) to achieve this.

 

So what happens to those uncompetitive teams. Again we can take note from Poole. They postponed a match this season due to the impact on their business from running with a noncompetitive team. In practice we have teams running like this on a regular basis, the only real solution to spend more money to resolve it. In the business world, this is how companies succeed, they defeat the competition, often into destruction. That's more problematic in sport. But in a sport fighting for its survival it could be terminal.

 

John Cook's excellent Speedway Star interview this week illustrated the mis-management in the sport. Basically it illustrated why sponsorship was simply propping up the sport. More fixtures meant diluting the amount of money. As he explained, with a sponsorship pot of £100,000, for 14 meetings that gives around £7,000 over and above the gate money to pay the bills. For 20 meetings you only have £5,000 for the shortfall.

 

Now Cook is being really realistic here which I approve of. The problem is that any business or sport that is effectively prevented from expanding due entirely to the costs of that extra work (not the cost of expansion in its own right) is in serious, serious trouble.

 

Which brings me back to the point of whether the sport can afford the top riders. I think not in the current climate. It is time to re-build the foundation. Make the sport affordable again to all, fans, promoters, riders. Stop hemorrhaging money to the wrong places, air fares, accomodation, engine tuners etc. Four guys on a bike is what we want. I have zero interest on who is riding the best tuned machine.

 

I wouldn't ban top riders, but they need to fit into the new infrastructure running at a manageable cost base. If they don't want to, that's their choice. You can't run a sport where the top riders are more important than the sport itself. Whilst I wouldn't prevent the likes of Holder and Ward riding, equally I wouldn't go out of my way to enable them to. That's admittance that the sport can't do without them. Then imagine if you did all that and they said (quite reasonably) thanks for making the opportunity, but we won't be riding in the UK next year; well you've made the changes to enable them to ride because the sport can't do without and now they've gone; you've just admitted the sport is nearly finished !!!

[Steve0]

Petty?

Yes - petty - take your pick :

 

1. Of small importance; trivial: a petty grievance.

2. Marked by narrowness of mind, ideas, or views.

3. Marked by meanness or lack of generosity, especially in trifling matters.

4. Secondary in importance or rank; subordinate. See Synonyms at trivial.

 

It was an approved safety fence, the bike lifted it (because of the speed) and Noddy went straight into the fence. Could have happened anywhere - so yes - petty!

[500cc]

 

No im just making the point that he come off at Coventry, and contary to what Dornier said, we do needs the Chris Holders in British speedway.. And by the way, Chris has not got a big ego..

Not sure need is the correct word. Ideally it should be as you suggest, just not sure today that can still be the case.

 

Aspire to. Absolutely.

 

Prevent him. Absolutely not.

 

The issue really goes back to my previous post (response to foreverblue). Ideally the likes of Chris Holder should be a boon to Speedway in the UK. But we may have (sadly) reached the point where what should be a benefit actually is having a negative impact. Matt Ford has himself (I believe) stated that Holder and Ward could have ridden their last meeting in the UK.

 

Now, you have to assume if it were Ford's choice he would have both of them in his team. So we can only assume that is due to factors like less money in the sport or reduced point limits. Even with the latter, you'd assume one of them would still ride, because if that prevents it then there is no Tai Woffinden either. If it's financial, then if it's an issue to Poole, then you can only imagine what is happening at some of the other clubs.

 

So to my mind, we seem to be borderline whether British speedway needs the likes of Holder. Technically it would be that the current structure is unable to accommodate him, but the fall out of that is that (currently) it would have to be assumed he isn't needed.

 

Please understand I'm not trying to create a case the kick the likes of Holder out of the UK. I just fear we've reached the point where riders of his ilk have become a luxury we can no longer afford. A sad state of affairs, but ultimately it may be better to sort the sport out and create a platform that once again supports the best riders in the world riding in the UK.

[T.N.T.]

I work in the transport sector in the hectic world of multi drop deliveries which has expanded in recent years due to online sales from companies like Amazon, Sports Direct, Boots, Next etc etc.

 

Most vans from companies like DPD,Yodel, UK Mail etc are all sub contractors and get paid various rates, however the drivers are paid a set rate of roughly £70 with the total income being anything from £130 - £200 for the day. Now £130 will barely break even after fuel, insurance, tax and general use and really you need £150 minimum to start seeing a profit.

 

 

If the total income was less than £130 then the only way a profit could be made is to pay the driver a maximum of £50.

 

 

 

So in short, you get what you can afford to stay in business and if the driver is Adam Wells instead of Chris Ward then so be it !!

[SCB]

If Chris Holder costs 100k but brings in 90k he's too expensive. It's for the promoters to work out how much the top riders bring in and cost and if it adds up.

 

So what if 50 people don't turn up if Holder currently cost 51 people more than he currently brings in.

[Edward Barrett]

Not sure need is the correct word. Ideally it should be as you suggest, just not sure today that can still be the case.

 

Aspire to. Absolutely.

 

Prevent him. Absolutely not.

 

The issue really goes back to my previous post (response to foreverblue). Ideally the likes of Chris Holder should be a boon to Speedway in the UK. But we may have (sadly) reached the point where what should be a benefit actually is having a negative impact. Matt Ford has himself (I believe) stated that Holder and Ward could have ridden their last meeting in the UK.

 

Now, you have to assume if it were Ford's choice he would have both of them in his team. So we can only assume that is due to factors like less money in the sport or reduced point limits. Even with the latter, you'd assume one of them would still ride, because if that prevents it then there is no Tai Woffinden either. If it's financial, then if it's an issue to Poole, then you can only imagine what is happening at some of the other clubs.

 

So to my mind, we seem to be borderline whether British speedway needs the likes of Holder. Technically it would be that the current structure is unable to accommodate him, but the fall out of that is that (currently) it would have to be assumed he isn't needed.

 

Please understand I'm not trying to create a case the kick the likes of Holder out of the UK. I just fear we've reached the point where riders of his ilk have become a luxury we can no longer afford. A sad state of affairs, but ultimately it may be better to sort the sport out and create a platform that once again supports the best riders in the world riding in the UK.

Good post, and what I have tried to get over, that no rider is bigger than the sport.

There will always be another rider to take over the mantle of the superstar, this seasons Holder was last years NP, or Hancock.

[Starman2006]

Yes - petty - take your pick :

 

1. Of small importance; trivial: a petty grievance.

2. Marked by narrowness of mind, ideas, or views.

3. Marked by meanness or lack of generosity, especially in trifling matters.

4. Secondary in importance or rank; subordinate. See Synonyms at trivial.

 

It was an approved safety fence, the bike lifted it (because of the speed) and Noddy went straight into the fence. Could have happened anywhere - so yes - petty!

That post just proves how bitter and twisted you are towards poole speedway.. and how much you really don't know!! If Matt wants Chris in our side, providing it fits in with his plans he will be riding.. I think Matt knows a bit more about Pooles finance's than you or any other so called expert on this forum does.. do.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Starman2006