BWitcher Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Why should thw rule be different for guesting or replacing a rider, your replacing your original rider whether its as a guest or permanent Are you allowed to add a % onto the average of a rider when you are replacing them like you can do when booking a guest? It's not a question of 'why' it should be different. It IS different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Why should thw rule be different for guesting or replacing a rider, your replacing your original rider whether its as a guest or permanent In black and white - Similarly only Riders with the same or lower FTDP Grading may be re-declared for the 6th or 7th positions. Compton is 25, Johnson is 27. You might question why it uses the word "same". Surely only the word lower needs to be used. But the bit written by Stevebrum is clearly only applied to guests. As usual a badly written rule. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 its there in black and white ...its regarding guests.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 In black and white - Similarly only Riders with the same or lower FTDP Grading may be re-declared for the 6th or 7th positions. Compton is 25, Johnson is 27. You might question why it uses the word "same". Surely only the word lower needs to be used. But the bit written by Stevebrum is clearly only applied to guests. As usual a badly written rule. They COULD have made it clearer and said it applies to guests AND ALL riders graded 24 or below. It actually makes sense to do that anyway! Because it doesn't say it if you apply that rule to suit you are cheating. There really shouldn't be any argument on it as its black and white!! I am not surprised it is the usual blind few who choose NOT to see it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 In black and white - Similarly only Riders with the same or lower FTDP Grading may be re-declared for the 6th or 7th positions. Compton is 25, Johnson is 27. You might question why it uses the word "same". Surely only the word lower needs to be used. But the bit written by Stevebrum is clearly only applied to guests. As usual a badly written rule. The word same could relate to above or below 24 grading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 The word same could relate to above or below 24 grading Makes no difference FB. The line above the rule states its in relation to GUESTS ONLY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Makes no difference FB. The line above the rule states its in relation to GUESTS ONLY! I realise that but salty was referring to a re declaration rule when you can replace a fast track rider with the same or lower grading Edited August 5, 2014 by foreverblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 I realise that but salty was referring to a re declaration rule when you can replace a fast track rider with the same or lower grading Either way 27 is neither SAME or LOWER than 25! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Either way 27 is neither SAME or LOWER than 25! So how do you have two riders gradings the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 So how do you have two riders gradings the same? Gotta admit that part IS mystifying! But then its a BSPA ruling - its too hard to make a rule simple and easy to understand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Like I said, the word same should not be there, no rider is graded the same as any other. It leads to ambiguity and gives people (in this case Poole) the chance to interpret the rules the way they see fit. As far as I read it the section about below 24 etc should only relate to guests. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 they put same just in case riders are judged to be equal for that month , jus covers there back i suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Poole have done no wrong with this latest team change. Has been clarified that riders below 24th can replace one another. This role only appeared from 'ISSUE 10' of the greensheets. The only issue I have is that Benji Compton has gone from 20th to 25th on the grade list in 1 month. That does seem suspect. Well the way I read it like most on here is that the rule being suggested is only for guests only.In actual fact I think that is the only way you can read it.Only a few are suggesting different,i wonder where they are from But you have a valid point on how he has gone from 20th to 25th on the list moving below the likes of Hopwood,Greaves,Mallett and Webster makes no sense.Can't say because of the injury or else Ashley Morris would have a much lower position than 10th because he has been sidelined for a while as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirates Of Poole Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Bottom line is if Poole have tried to re-declare illegally then the BSPA will not sanction the new team. Simple as that, it has happened in the past to Poole and other teams. If they have broken the rules there are other EL owners on the panel that won't let this through. Only time will tell if the re declare is accepted. How I read the write up at the bottom of the page could be taken either way, interesting though there is a clear black line under rider 25 onwards. Edited August 5, 2014 by Pirates Of Poole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Bottom line is if Poole have tried to re-declare illegally then the BSPA will not sanction the new team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirates Of Poole Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Well done on using some of the quote!!!!!! Cook is on the panel and this will effect LS! Yes I am a Poole fan but I am far from as massive Matt Ford fan, I don't want this to shadow a possible league title in October as all the anti Poole people will be on here saying we cheated. This needs to be clarified very very clearly tomorrow either way. Edited August 5, 2014 by Pirates Of Poole 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Cook is on the panel and this will effect LS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 they put same just in case riders are judged to be equal for that month , jus covers there back i suppose No riders have been judged equal since the FTR lists were first announced. This whole thing stinks - as usual. Poole announced back in April they were going to bring Benji in to replace Lee Smart. Owing to injury that didn't happen and in the May FTR lists Benji was above Smart so they couldn't have done it anyway (became largely irrelevant because Benji was injured). The change in rule regarding GUESTS ie those below 24 were treated equally for guest purposes, appeared for the first time on 13th May. At that time Benji Compton was ranked 15 Certainly don't remember Swindon having a similar option when they were looking to replace Dan Greenwood. Speedway Star w/e 26th July. Middlo is quoted "With the FT sysytem you can't strengthen up. When you get another rider you have to go down the draft list. It's ludicrous" August 6th. Suddenly Compton ranked now at 25 is replacing a rider ranked 27 using a rule which is very specifically written to relate to GUESTS. Why, oh why, do the other clubs keep allowing Poole to do this? No wonder the sport is dying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Well done on using some of the quote!!!!!! Cook is on the panel and this will effect LS! Yes I am a Poole fan but I am far from as massive Matt Ford fan, I don't want this to shadow a possible league title in October as all the anti Poole people will be on here saying we cheated. This needs to be clarified very very clearly tomorrow either way. Cook!! He's got no history of rolling over for Poole has he! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Bottom line is if Poole have tried to re-declare illegally then the BSPA will not sanction the new team. Simple as that, it has happened in the past to Poole and other teams. If they have broken the rules there are other EL owners on the panel that won't let this through. Only time will tell if the re declare is accepted. How I read the write up at the bottom of the page could be taken either way, interesting though there is a clear black line under rider 25 onwards. Bottom line is it appears `outside` of the rules that it has been sanctioned. All anybody would want is surely is rules that don`t NEED any interpretation! By all means change the ruling for it to say ANY rider/or guest 24 or below can be substituted for anyone in that group of riders. It really is THAT simple BSPA! No riders have been judged equal since the FTR lists were first announced. This whole thing stinks - as usual. Poole announced back in April they were going to bring Benji in to replace Lee Smart. Owing to injury that didn't happen and in the May FTR lists Benji was above Smart so they couldn't have done it anyway (became largely irrelevant because Benji was injured). The change in rule regarding GUESTS ie those below 24 were treated equally for guest purposes, appeared for the first time on 13th May. At that time Benji Compton was ranked 15 Certainly don't remember Swindon having a similar option when they were looking to replace Dan Greenwood. Speedway Star w/e 26th July. Middlo is quoted "With the FT sysytem you can't strengthen up. When you get another rider you have to go down the draft list. It's ludicrous" August 6th. Suddenly Compton ranked now at 25 is replacing a rider ranked 27 using a rule which is very specifically written to relate to GUESTS. Why, oh why, do the other clubs keep allowing Poole to do this? No wonder the sport is dying. Well said, except as far as Poole fans go they don't really care if its fair or not. Most support bending rules to suit. (not all) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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