Sky 2014

[Halifaxtiger]

You're not grasping it at all HalifaxTiger.

 

As Tsunami does you are dismissing the views of those that don't go. The very fact they are still on this forum, the very fact they still enjoy to watch the sport but don't go should ring massive alarm bells. What hope of attracting new fans and keeping them if those who love it aren't going?

 

This isn't speculation or pie in the sky stuff, its reality. Fans have been drifting away from the sport for a long time and they are NOT being replaced. Quite clearly the current strategy is not working.

 

You claim that real speedway die hards wouldn't walk away.. I'm sorry but they do and they have. I know of many, many fans who followed their team for years home and away and wouldn't have ever dreamed of not attending. Slowly they began to be worn down by the corrupt way the sport is run, the antiquated presentation etc. Eventually they reached a breaking point and stopped.

 

I may live in Portugal, Tsunami claims my opinion is no longer valid, but I haven't yet reached that stage. I flew over to see Sam Ermolenko ride in the Joe Hughes Memorial meeting and for the playoffs, attended as many meets as I could when in England at other times of the year... each time I come there are less of the familiar faces who have attended the sport for years before.. and very very few new ones. It's the same old people, another year older, but less of them. THAT is a trend that simply cannot continue.

 

I don't think I have ever been misquoted so many times in one post.

 

I actually stated that you should not ignore feedback from whatever source but what you can ignore is the same feedback from the same source that is made time after time. In addition, those who do not go have the right to comment but their opinion cannot be as valid on many issues as those who do.

 

To illustrate that, how can someone who does not go comment on presentation, track quality, the overall standard of stadiums, whether the toilets are acceptable or a thousand other things that only people who attend would be able to know ?

 

Answer is they can't. They won't know (other than by hearsay) that the standard of presentation at Scunthorpe increased spectacularly this season, that Plymouth have built a terrific new stand, that Kent's stadium could be used for GP's, that the burgers at Berwick are fantastic or that Belle Vue's track has improved beyond recognition. I know all of that is true simply because I have been to all of these stadiums.

 

Where I agree with Tsunami is that it is better to pursue those who have never been before than those who will never come back. Listen to the latter, by all means. But if its not reasonably possible to satisfy their demands, forget them because you will be throwing good money after bad.

 

Were have I said that diehards would not walk away ? I haven't, because I know people like that myself. I merely pointed out that my old mate White Knight (who bends my ear about rulings every time I see him) would have gone by now if it bothered him that much.

 

I think you know that I get exasperated at best by the corrupt practices in the sport and the fact that I believe that many tracks simply do not do everything possible to attract fans. But that will not ever stop me going, because my passion is watching four blokes on bikes without brakes and, as I said before, I never think of the undoubted failings of speedway when the tapes rise and the clutches drop.

 

I also profoundly believe that those who do stop going for the above reasons are, at least to a degree, cutting their nose off to spite their face.

 

What I will admit to very much having trouble grasping is how people who claim to love the sport do nothing but make negative comment about it and never attend meetings. I must admit I am also having trouble grasping the difference between them and those who hate the sport, because isn't that precisely what the latter would do ?

[orion]

. Half a dozen people have given the thumbs up for the Play-Offs, but what about the ones who don't like them?

 

 

Most of them won't be around for long I expect .

[BWitcher]

 

 

I don't think I have ever been misquoted so many times in one post.

 

I actually stated that you should not ignore feedback from whatever source but what you can ignore is the same feedback from the same source that is made time after time. In addition, those who do not go have the right to comment but their opinion cannot be as valid on many issues as those who do.

 

To illustrate that, how can someone who does not go comment on presentation, track quality, the overall standard of stadiums, whether the toilets are acceptable or a thousand other things that only people who attend would be able to know ?

 

Answer is they can't. They won't know (other than by hearsay) that the standard of presentation at Scunthorpe increased spectacularly this season, that Plymouth have built a terrific new stand, that Kent's stadium could be used for GP's, that the burgers at Berwick are fantastic or that Belle Vue's track has improved beyond recognition. I know all of that is true simply because I have been to all of these stadiums.

 

Where I agree with Tsunami is that it is better to pursue those who have never been before than those who will never come back. Listen to the latter, by all means. But if its not reasonably possible to satisfy their demands, forget them because you will be throwing good money after bad.

 

Were have I said that diehards would not walk away ? I haven't, because I know people like that myself. I merely pointed out that my old mate White Knight (who bends my ear about rulings every time I see him) would have gone by now if it bothered him that much.

 

I think you know that I get exasperated at best by the corrupt practices in the sport and the fact that I believe that many tracks simply do not do everything possible to attract fans. But that will not ever stop me going, because my passion is watching four blokes on bikes without brakes and, as I said before, I never think of the undoubted failings of speedway when the tapes rise and the clutches drop.

 

I also profoundly believe that those who do stop going for the above reasons are, at least to a degree, cutting their nose off to spite their face.

 

What I will admit to very much having trouble grasping is how people who claim to love the sport do nothing but make negative comment about it and never attend meetings. I must admit I am also having trouble grasping the difference between them and those who hate the sport, because isn't that precisely what the latter would do ?

 

 

You're claiming the 'same old feedback' shouldn't be listened too. That's ridiculous!

 

The question should be asked is WHY we keep hearing the same old feedback. It isn't just from a few old timers who don't go but from regular fans who attended every week and now only go occasionally also.

 

I totally utterly disagree with your end hypothesis too. I would ask if you love the sport, why do you sit by and accept the way it is run. Folk aren't making negative comments about 'speedway' per se, they are making negative comments about the inept way it is run, the poor presentation, the ever increasing cost, the ever increasing use of RR/guests/double uppers, the awful fixture list, the corrupt decisions.

 

Many of those making negative comments do so because they love the sport and it angers them to see the way it is being run into the ground.

 

 

[The White Knight]

WHAT was the straw that broke the White Knight's back?

 

The Double Points Rule in the Newcastle v. Somerset Meeting Philip. I have no complaints about Somerset beating us over the two Legs. My problem was that because we never got so far behind Somerset at their place, we could not use the Tactical Ride. They then come to Brough Park with TWO chances of using it, which they did once. They were right to do so, it was in the Rules and THAT is the crux of my argument. Somerset were GIVEN an UNFAIR advantage over a Team that had a mountain to climb anyway. How can that be right?

 

I can no longer continue supporting a Sport that I can't believe in. The various stupid Rules are slowly killing our beloved Sport - I know some on here agree with me and I know of others who have left because of the Rules. Those who deny this on here are, in my opinion, simply deluded. Speedway should be encouraging people to attend Meetings in greater numbers. Tell me Philip - how can they do that when the very Sport itself has lost it's credibility.

 

Play Offs, Double Points etc. are WRONG as far as I am concerned - I get angry and upset every time Double Points is used whether it be against my Team - or that of the opposition.

 

 

Sorry to go through this again - but - you did ask.

[orion]

 

Play Offs, Double Points etc. are WRONG as far as I am concerned - I get angry and upset every time Double Points is used whether it be against my Team - or that of the opposition.

 

 

Sorry to go through this again - but - you did ask.

First of all why are you going to a play off match as you dislike them so much ? no doubt you never got angry when old the tac sub rule was used ...I thought you said that is was just as bad or have you forgotten ?

[Vincent Blachshadow]

First of all why are you going to a play off match as you dislike them so much ? no doubt you never got angry when old the tac sub rule was used ...I thought you said that is was just as bad or have you forgotten ?

We've got Halifaxtiger posting that diehards should attend come what may, and we've got orion asking T W K why he goes if he doesn't like the rules. Not exactly working together - are they both on the BSPA? Edited October 16, 2013 by Vincent Blackshadow

[The White Knight]

First of all why are you going to a play off match as you dislike them so much ? no doubt you never got angry when old the tac sub rule was used ...I thought you said that is was just as bad or have you forgotten ?

 

What on earth are you talking about orion? I was trying to answer Philip's question - or - do you have a problem with that. I went because I like watching Speedway (if I have to justify myself to you). I finally decide that watching the Speedway was not worth me getting upset over stupid bloody Rules that are turning people off the Sport.

 

Yes I got annoyed about the old Tactical Substitute Rides BUT crucially not half as angry as I do over Double Points. I could just about live with the Tactical Substitute even though I think it is intrinsically wrong - I cannot live with Double Points.

 

I have explained this to you before and yet you choose to Post the same old thing time after time.

 

Once and for all BOTH the Tactical Substitute Ride AND the Tactical Ride are wrong in my book - OK.

 

Now I have given you an anawer to your question - PLEASE don't ask me again, you are becoming a nuisance.

[Robbie B]

Sky, must trying to save some money, as they there scrapping their Digital Text service on October 30.

 

I doubt that the money saved will be used to buy the EL speedway rights though.

[rob tatum]

Questions : How much do/did sky pay per year to show league speedway ? How much did sky pay to show the GPs? Does anyone else feel embarrassed when watching some televised matches ,races that take an age to complete ,tracks that look scruffy ,racing surfaces that at best look like ploughed fields ,you would think the owners would at least try as berwick & somerset do. I love my speedway but can't see any reason why sky would continue let's all be totally honest our sport is run by people who seem to be lost in a time when stadiums were rubbish ,prices were cheap & crowds were big. This is 2013 times have changed league speedway hasn't.

[Halifaxtiger]

 

 

 

You're claiming the 'same old feedback' shouldn't be listened too. That's ridiculous!

 

The question should be asked is WHY we keep hearing the same old feedback. It isn't just from a few old timers who don't go but from regular fans who attended every week and now only go occasionally also.

 

I totally utterly disagree with your end hypothesis too. I would ask if you love the sport, why do you sit by and accept the way it is run. Folk aren't making negative comments about 'speedway' per se, they are making negative comments about the inept way it is run, the poor presentation, the ever increasing cost, the ever increasing use of RR/guests/double uppers, the awful fixture list, the corrupt decisions.

 

Many of those making negative comments do so because they love the sport and it angers them to see the way it is being run into the ground.

 

I said the same feedback from the same source. You already know what they think, so why read it again time after time ? That’s ridiculous.

 

Just because I keep going, doesn’t mean for one second that I accept the way that it is run – in fact, I think you well know that I don’t from my comments on the Belle Vue – Poole thread, where I supported your contention that the match was fixed and condemned the fact that it was even run. In the ‘Nothing Changes’ thread I commented:

‘The truth as I see it is they are all equally complicit in every dodgy and/or corrupt decision because no-one ever does anything about them.

I don't think you can have an independent body to run the sport, but you most certainly can to ensure that they stick to their own rules and that decision making is both legal and transparent’.

 

The sooner we have such a body, the better.

 

To reiterate, my view is that there are genuine and very real concerns about the way the sport is run and the effort put in to ensure that a meeting is as good as it possibly can be. Spectators are, to a degree, taken for granted. But that is simply nowhere near enough to stop me having the genuine thrill and excitement of watching four blokes on bikes without brakes and, if I am honest, I do not understand those who walk away because Poole are allowed to call a match off or a bloke puts on a black and white helmet and gets double points for doing so.

 

I’d probably accept your comment that they are being negative about the way the sport is run rather than the sport itself because I make the same comments myself. The difference between us is I am also most ready to give credit where credit is due when I think that a promotion has brought in changes for the better. They are just negative full stop (to be fair, they won’t even know about such changes because they don’t go) and how can you love something but not have a good word to say about any aspect of it ?

 

I suspect the BSPA don’t listen to supporters. But if they do, I think they are far more likely to listen to one who attends 60 matches in a season at 22 tracks than someone who wouldn’t go if you gave him a free season ticket.

 

[oldace]

 

 

I suspect the BSPA don’t listen to supporters. But if they do, I think they are far more likely to listen to one who attends 60 matches in a season at 22 tracks than someone who wouldn’t go if you gave him a free season ticket.

 

You haven't got a clue have you. The fan who attends 60 meetings a year is clearly happy with the sport so what do you expect his.her feedback will be? When he says everything is fine then just carry on as before wondering why those of his persuasion seem to get less and less each year

[orion]

Yes I got annoyed about the old Tactical Substitute Rides BUT crucially not half as angry as I do over Double Points. I could just about live with the Tactical Substitute even though I think it is intrinsically wrong - I cannot live with Double Points.

 

 

So after saying that tac sub was just as bad you now change your mind to saying it was much worst ? Edited October 17, 2013 by orion

[BWitcher]

 

 

I said the same feedback from the same source. You already know what they think, so why read it again time after time ? That’s ridiculous.

 

 

I understand that, but the issue is the feedback has been ignored since day 1. Hence why its repeated over and over.

[The White Knight]

So after saying that tac sub was just as bad you now change your mind to saying it was much worst ?

 

For goodness sake - if I get a Ban - so be it.

 

YOU ARE A GOON!!!

 

You are also, I think the word is - Trolling.

Edited October 17, 2013 by The White Knight

[oldace]

For goodness sake - if I get a Ban - so be it.

 

YOU ARE A GOON!!!

 

You are also, I think the word is - Trolling.

 

Easy tiger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[orion]

For goodness sake - if I get a Ban - so be it.

 

YOU ARE A GOON!!!

 

You are also, I think the word is - Trolling.

Is that the best you can do :rofl: Goon ...you steady on ...

Edited October 17, 2013 by orion

[Haza]

If I was Sky I'd not even consider doing a deal to show EL speedway I'd do a deal to show either or both Polish league and Swedish league all they have to do is take the live feed on a Sunday and Tuesday no setting up cameras and the like no paying out to set up everything for a rain off just take the feed from Poland and Sweden and see all the top riders in the world at I'd guess a fraction of the price .

[mikebv]

What I don't see is how the never been bothered type is a better bet to attend speedway in future than somebody who is just off the sport at the moment.

 

Absolutely...

 

Especially when hardly anyone outside 'the converted' know speedway exists anyhow...

 

My team in manchester has a 45 minute catchment radius of 2.5 MILLION people yet despite 'best intentions' cannot get even just one thousandth of them to attend each week...

 

Those 'gone aways' at least know/remember the sport and lets be honest if most tracks can entice just a meagre 500 of them back they wont be losing money...

 

It has been questioned 'how do you know who have gone?' well you dont, but you do know reading the speedway press and this forum over the past ten years or so WHY they left which means you can slow the hemorrhage down by not making the same mistakes again and fixing what is broken...

 

Also you can start to actually 'know' your current punters who still attend by market research, mobile numbers, email addresses etc so when/if they 'go away' you have at least a chance to entice them back...

 

Every track MUST have 500 punters they can get back thru even the most basic marketing campaign surely? If not god help them...

[jimmy jimmy]

My opinion, there will be no tv for UK speedway next season. Gospeed will put it on speedway tv as a subscription feed.

 

As for the rest of this thread, you are just repeating what you have been saying for months. You may be right but do you have to keep posting the same points on numerous threads?

[Halifaxtiger]

You haven't got a clue have you. The fan who attends 60 meetings a year is clearly happy with the sport so what do you expect his.her feedback will be? When he says everything is fine then just carry on as before wondering why those of his persuasion seem to get less and less each year

 

Is he ?

 

That's a pretty big assumption to make.

 

To illustrate the point, you used to go so you must have been 'clearly happy with the sport' - right up to the point that you walked out of the stadium and didn't come back, that is.

 

On my travels (and I know fans from places as a far apart as Glasgow and Plymouth) I don't think I know one that doesn't have some sort of grievance, in many cases both reasonable and justifiable. You only have to read the pages of this forum to know that regular attendees have issues.

 

Accepting that just because people go they are 'clearly happy' is exactly the sort of complacent, take them for granted, get what you are given and be grateful attitude that some (but not all) members of the BSPA and their entourages have towards the paying spectator. Look at the Sheffield 2013 thread and you will see one poster stating that those complaining are 'mealy mouthed b*stards' who should be thankful that they have a track, implying that there is little or no duty on the promotion to attract fans on race nights. That's not just rubbish and not just appalling rubbish, its genuinely frightening.

 

Nearly all feedback is valuable, but surely that from people who actually still go is the most important. While trying to attract back those who no longer attend could easily be a pointless and wasted exercise, actually listening to those who are in attendance might ensure that they will continue to go.

 

I understand that, but the issue is the feedback has been ignored since day 1. Hence why its repeated over and over.

 

If truth were told I am not sure how much feedback they get. While I am pretty sure that individual tracks have surveyed supporters on occasion, Stoke on Sunday will be 206th match in three seasons and I've never been asked for my views.

 

Listening to your paying customers is not a lesson that the BSPA and SCB have learned, and its fair to suggest that they have probably paid a price for that.