Sky 2014

[Blazeaway]

Society has changed, get over it.

 

An absolute gem, I shall remember this one when you're moaning about Islam, Immigrants etc.

[Tsunami]

I understand your opinion that we mustn't get too bogged down in the sport's past and need to look to the future, but I think it is important to find out why people have stopped going.

Equally, it would be good to find out why Sky are going to drop the sport (as seems likely). Is it just cost-cutting or is it the poor standard of the meetings over the last couple of seasons or the ramshackle stadia with sparse crowds or the haphazard, confused fixture list? If Phil Rising is correct it seems Sky will just let the contract run out and walk away without a word. It would be useful to know why this has happened.

 

I quite agree with that approach CiG. Unfortunately the cases mentioned on this thread are about onetime fans who have walked away, and have already said they would not come back, one even if he was given a free season ticket(moxey). My point is that it is better to concentrate on folks who might be pursuaded to come rather, than change everything that oldtimers have stated they quit for because some other fans still go because of these issues. You can't please everyone on everything. It's a bit like selling something or trying to get someone to come to speedway, something that I do regularly on behalf on Newcastle Speedway. Far better to suss out the crowd and concentrate on those who show an interest and you think might be pursuaded to come. It's about percentages like most selling.

In relation to SKY, I think you will find that the BSPA has actively tried to talk to SKY, but SKY don't appear to be available to enter into any dialogue with them at this point in time. It has been thought and mentioned that SKY overstretched themselves and paid too much for the Premier League football contract, and were looking to reduce their outgoings. Perhaps it would have been better to fit something into the new F1 channel and made it into a motor sports channel, but it's too late now. There are many things wrong with the SKY meetings, which do need to be sorted out, and I am sure that if there is a glimmer on hope, that the BSPA will have to be amenable to changes that SKY insist on. Let's hope they do some talking before it's too late.

 

 

Blows my case?

 

Your case is well and truly blown by the fact that the sport is in the mess it is. In fact, quite frankly you don't have a case.

 

I know full well I have the ability to run a business and do so every day, a business on the up with triple the turnover it had when I first took a leading role in it 2 years ago.

 

You tell us in business you move with the times, so tell me, what has the BSPA done to 'move with the times'. This is your chance now, an open forum for you to explain to us the great strides you believe the BSPA has taken to as you say 'move with the times'.

 

Unlike you, I don't need a forum, or the chance, to explain anything that you want me to explain. There are many things that are happening in speedway to move with the times, and try to improve the product, but I don't think you are going to accept anything so i'll not bother. Debating is not something that you are good at, just trying to belittle anyone who does not share your views and opinions on whatever your hobby horse happens to be at that time. Might explain why forum members don't get into debates with you. Think about it.

 

It isn't hard to see why the sport is in the mess it is with thinking like that

 

Dont you grasp that a customer who makes a complaint is giving you a vital opportunity. Most customers of any business don't complain after a bad experience, they simply dont go again. When two people (the ones you chose to name) with over 80 years of watching the sport no longer want to attend you should be actively trying to canvass their opinions as to why not dismissing them.

 

Bwitcher is spot on, you have zero sense, business or otherwise

 

The names that I mentioned, including yours, are folks on here who haven't got a good word to say about the sport on any angle or issue. If you don't like anything in the sport, why would anyone want to listen to someone who just decries the sport at every opportunity. If it's not for you, just leave it, you already have.

Interesting you agree with BWitcher to me having zero business sense. Re-Opened Newcastle in 1997, third in our first year, signed Nicki P in 1998, Bjarne in 2000, won the PL title in 2001and second in 2002, signed KB in 2002, introduced the Gems in 2002, gave Will Lawson, Jamie Robertson, Craig and John Branney, Richard Hall,etc, all their debut rides in league speedway, retired at the end of 2003 as a promoter, but maintain many positions still in the running of Newcastle Speedway who are one of the top teams in the PL. WOW, what a failure.

 

Tsunami probably thinks the Aces v Pirates shambles was a good advert for speedway!

 

Certainly not, IMO it should not have started.

 

??? A ship in pastures? I thought that was land for cattle etc? And who's my "new found mate"?

 

I suppose the £10 Brits who sailed to Australia, didn't sail to 'pastures new' then. You're supposed to be the wordsmith. Look at your 'like's, that's what they are for.

 

An absolute gem, I shall remember this one when you're moaning about Islam, Immigrants etc.

 

A sport losing fans due to social trends, as against the actual and potential menace of bombers and anarchists to society. This convo is a bit above you I see, once again.

[SteveLyric2]

Good post Tsunami! The only thing I would take issue with is the position with Sky?! As I said in an earlier post, why someone from BSPA/GSI hasn't approached Sky mid-season and given them a sensible deadline to respond with a decision, I just don't understand!! A presentation could and should have been put together to BT Sport (or whoever). The sport would have been no worse off than it is now in terms of knowing whether it has a TV future and planning for 2014 accordingly!

[screm]

Good post Tsunami! The only thing I would take issue with is the position with Sky?! As I said in an earlier post, why someone from BSPA/GSI hasn't approached Sky mid-season and given them a sensible deadline to respond with a decision, I just don't understand!! A presentation could and should have been put together to BT Sport (or whoever). The sport would have been no worse off than it is now in terms of knowing whether it has a TV future and planning for 2014 accordingly!

 

Wont any Sky deal have to be agreed by the time of the conference,maybe not contracts signed but a firm yes or no from Sky,though I must admit I fear speedway has missed the boat.

[arthur cross]

Perhaps it would have been better to fit something into the new F1 channel and made it into a motor sports channel, but it's too late now.

 

Fitting into Sky's F1 channel was never an option (& still isn't) for speedway or anything else like superbikes or any American motor sports Sky have shown over the years simply because Bernie Ecclestone wouldn't grant Sky exclusive live UK-coverage to half the season's races unless Sky committed themselves to having a 24/7 channel devoted to F1 ... it's his way of guaranteeing to F1's lavish sponsors that they're always getting their brands shown on tv.

[Halifaxtiger]

My point is that it is better to concentrate on folks who might be pursuaded to come rather, than change everything that oldtimers have stated they quit for because some other fans still go because of these issues. You can't please everyone on everything.

 

If you don't like anything in the sport, why would anyone want to listen to someone who just decries the sport at every opportunity. If it's not for you, just leave it, you already have.

 

 

Agree completely

 

Why waste your time, money and effort on those who aren't going to go again no matter what because there are certain aspects of the sport they don't like ? That's daft.

 

I must admit I struggle to understand why some continue to comment on the sport on this and other forums when they do not attend meetings and have no intention of attending. As you rightly say, they have left so why hang on merely being negative ?

 

One thing that can't be overlooked is that you have been there and done that. There are a lot of people on this forum who have all the bright ideas in the world about why the sport is (apparently) going down the pan but you are one of the very few who has actually put his money where his mouth is and opened and run a track (pretty successfully, I'd say).

 

And my opinion is that the decline will continue.

 

 

And yet people can't stop opening (or more accurately, attempting to open) new tracks.

 

I am aware of at least 5 locations where people are trying get speedway off the ground - and I have heard about another where that might be the case - and they are being prevented not by poor crowds, the BSPA or anything to do with the sport but the lack of decent sites (in one case) and obtaining planning permission or other red tape (in all the others).

 

Personally, and based upon my travels around the country, I'd say 2013 was definitely more successful than 2012 for speedway in this country, principally because of better weather conditions.

 

No-one would dream of saying that speedway is in the peak of health but I don't believe (and have never believed) that it is in terminal decline.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Halifaxtiger

[Mike.Butler]

i have been pretty negative on here this season about the EL. The no.of meetings I have attended is in gradual decline. 2007-43, 2008-45, 2009-35, 2010-37, 2011-30, 2012-29, 2013-24=lowest this centrury. Hope this still means i can contribute. I never watch EL speedway on Sky btw, it's too painful...

[arthur cross]

Why waste your time, money and effort on those who aren't going to go again no matter what because there are certain aspects of the sport they don't like ? That's daft.

 

Ok, it's daft to waste a lot of time, money and effort on folk like that.

 

But at least they've told you why they're not coming back (most driftaways don't even do that) ... therefore it's surely worth looking for at least a few moments at their reasoning to see if you can learn from their frustrations and avoid those who are still attending becoming future driftaways for the same reason !!

 

You still won't recapture the person who's already gone while having a rant ... but for the sake of a little time, money and effort, that rant can give you a better chance of hanging on to 20 others who've been thinking much the same but who are still attending, ready to be impressed when you tidy up their grievance.

 

It's easy to just dismiss everything about the ranter ... much smarter to separate the reasoning from the individual and then work on just the bit that's worth working on.

 

Generally in business, you learn a hell of a lot more when things go wrong than when things go right ... providing you can survive a problem, you should come back much the stronger for having overcome it.

Edited October 12, 2013 by arthur cross

[BWitcher]

I quite agree with that approach CiG. Unfortunately the cases mentioned on this thread are about onetime fans who have walked away, and have already said they would not come back, one even if he was given a free season ticket(moxey). My point is that it is better to concentrate on folks who might be pursuaded to come rather, than change everything that oldtimers have stated they quit for because some other fans still go because of these issues. You can't please everyone on everything. It's a bit like selling something or trying to get someone to come to speedway, something that I do regularly on behalf on Newcastle Speedway. Far better to suss out the crowd and concentrate on those who show an interest and you think might be pursuaded to come. It's about percentages like most selling.

In relation to SKY, I think you will find that the BSPA has actively tried to talk to SKY, but SKY don't appear to be available to enter into any dialogue with them at this point in time. It has been thought and mentioned that SKY overstretched themselves and paid too much for the Premier League football contract, and were looking to reduce their outgoings. Perhaps it would have been better to fit something into the new F1 channel and made it into a motor sports channel, but it's too late now. There are many things wrong with the SKY meetings, which do need to be sorted out, and I am sure that if there is a glimmer on hope, that the BSPA will have to be amenable to changes that SKY insist on. Let's hope they do some talking before it's too late.

 

 

 

 

Unlike you, I don't need a forum, or the chance, to explain anything that you want me to explain. There are many things that are happening in speedway to move with the times, and try to improve the product, but I don't think you are going to accept anything so i'll not bother. Debating is not something that you are good at, just trying to belittle anyone who does not share your views and opinions on whatever your hobby horse happens to be at that time. Might explain why forum members don't get into debates with you. Think about it.

 

 

 

The names that I mentioned, including yours, are folks on here who haven't got a good word to say about the sport on any angle or issue. If you don't like anything in the sport, why would anyone want to listen to someone who just decries the sport at every opportunity. If it's not for you, just leave it, you already have.

Interesting you agree with BWitcher to me having zero business sense. Re-Opened Newcastle in 1997, third in our first year, signed Nicki P in 1998, Bjarne in 2000, won the PL title in 2001and second in 2002, signed KB in 2002, introduced the Gems in 2002, gave Will Lawson, Jamie Robertson, Craig and John Branney, Richard Hall,etc, all their debut rides in league speedway, retired at the end of 2003 as a promoter, but maintain many positions still in the running of Newcastle Speedway who are one of the top teams in the PL. WOW, what a failure.

 

 

Thanks for this post, you have just confirmed how far out of touch you are.

 

You relate to selling, which is my job and having won awards for National Salesperson of the year 4 years in a row for the worlds biggest company I would suggest that qualifies me as something of an expert in this area. To dismiss any feedback which you consistently do is quite simply madness. As others have said on this thread, it doesn't matter who the feedback is coming from and whether or not that person themselves is going to attend again (although the particular one you mentioned stated they attended this year, and gave the reasons WHY they don't attend more) the feedback is vital. For every 1 person giving you that feedback there are countless more who simply stop going and don't give you that feedback.

 

Nobody is a lost customer, just because someone has stopped going now does not mean they won't return in the future. Do you think companies such as BT, Sky, Virgin, British Gas etc simply give up when you cancel your subscription with them? No they don't, they will continue to try and win you back.

 

You stated the sport has to forget old timers and concentrate on moving with the times.. rather amusing as one of the BIGGEST criticisms of the sport is the very fact that it has NOT moved with the times. Giving you the benefit of the doubt on this I asked you to name some examples.. as we can see above you were unable to do so.

 

As usual you try to turn it into something personal as you have no rational argument to fall back upon accusing people of being unable to debate etc. For there to be a debate that has to be two sides to the argument. Quite simply thus far you haven't put forward anything of any credence towards your side of the argument. There is no need to belittle you, you do that yourself. If you're unable to name any of the ways that the sport has been 'moving with the times' that speaks volumes.

 

Finally, your argument about your business sense. Nothing in your witterings about league positions, who you signed or which riders you introduced has anything to do with proving your business sense. How big were your crowds in 2003 compared to 1997, how much money were you making each season? With your continued input are Newcastle packing out their matches each week or are they another team limping along from season to season relying on the same diehards, who if they dare to stop going and voice the reasons why, are dismissed as not mattering.

[oldace]

In the past when taking over an ailing business I would always go through the customer database, make contact with lapsed customers and find out why they stopped using us. Often customers with years of trading had been allowed to simply drift away with a certain acceptance. No one had bothered to find out why such customers were unhappy and, in the usual way, most had never voiced their reasons why they had stopped giving their business.

 

When you find a pattern as to why it has happened then anyone with a modicum would try and act on it, not dismiss it. In this way you can win back customers previously seen as lost causes.

 

Tsunami's business pedigree is running Newcastle speedway for 6 years. During that time was there a massive percentage increase in turnover? was there a huge profit increase ? or is success in his book simply not losing as much as some others.

 

What he is good at is finding reasons why things can't be done to improve things.

[Stokielee]

Why would Sky negotiate on anything until they know the following:

a) Level of EL, i.e. GP riders involved?

Number of teams in the EL

c) Who those teams are

Why isn't it obvious why Sky won't talk?

The structure of the EL for the following season should be decided in July!

[Trees]

 

I understand your opinion that we mustn't get too bogged down in the sport's past and need to look to the future, but I think it is important to find out why people have stopped going.

Equally, it would be good to find out why Sky are going to drop the sport (as seems likely). Is it just cost-cutting or is it the poor standard of the meetings over the last couple of seasons or the ramshackle stadia with sparse crowds or the haphazard, confused fixture list? If Phil Rising is correct it seems Sky will just let the contract run out and walk away without a word. It would be useful to know why this has happened.

Surely there's a simple answer, MORE ACTION and MORE EXCITEMENT required! Better riders, more incentive, better prepared tracks, more practice for away riders, more passionate crowds (err that'll be lessons from the Dudley fans ha) . . . ???

[Tsunami]

Thanks for this post, you have just confirmed how far out of touch you are.

 

You relate to selling, which is my job and having won awards for National Salesperson of the year 4 years in a row for the worlds biggest company I would suggest that qualifies me as something of an expert in this area. To dismiss any feedback which you consistently do is quite simply madness. As others have said on this thread, it doesn't matter who the feedback is coming from and whether or not that person themselves is going to attend again (although the particular one you mentioned stated they attended this year, and gave the reasons WHY they don't attend more) the feedback is vital. For every 1 person giving you that feedback there are countless more who simply stop going and don't give you that feedback.

 

Nobody is a lost customer, just because someone has stopped going now does not mean they won't return in the future. Do you think companies such as BT, Sky, Virgin, British Gas etc simply give up when you cancel your subscription with them? No they don't, they will continue to try and win you back.

 

You stated the sport has to forget old timers and concentrate on moving with the times.. rather amusing as one of the BIGGEST criticisms of the sport is the very fact that it has NOT moved with the times. Giving you the benefit of the doubt on this I asked you to name some examples.. as we can see above you were unable to do so.

 

As usual you try to turn it into something personal as you have no rational argument to fall back upon accusing people of being unable to debate etc. For there to be a debate that has to be two sides to the argument. Quite simply thus far you haven't put forward anything of any credence towards your side of the argument. There is no need to belittle you, you do that yourself. If you're unable to name any of the ways that the sport has been 'moving with the times' that speaks volumes.

 

Finally, your argument about your business sense. Nothing in your witterings about league positions, who you signed or which riders you introduced has anything to do with proving your business sense. How big were your crowds in 2003 compared to 1997, how much money were you making each season? With your continued input are Newcastle packing out their matches each week or are they another team limping along from season to season relying on the same diehards, who if they dare to stop going and voice the reasons why, are dismissed as not mattering.

 

Salesmen(even world experts ) don't create or run businesses. They provide opportunities and an income stream for others to manage. No good at it, and they just move on to another business. Minimum risk. If you own and run a speedway club, you don't have that easy getout, but an obligation to save it and try to expand it. Signing the right riders is the key to creating a good team and provide finances when you sell them, and also save loan fees. Look at the riders that Newcastle have signed over the years. Most clubs envy who we have signed, and wonder why emerging class riders want to be part of our team, year in year out. In the PL, Newcastle is regularly one of the best teams , within a group of about 4 to 5 teams. I wonder why. Not cos we employ a world class super salesman. No, it's down to being able to run a business. BTW. Guess who sold you Nicki P. :shock:

 

In the past when taking over an ailing business I would always go through the customer database, make contact with lapsed customers and find out why they stopped using us. Often customers with years of trading had been allowed to simply drift away with a certain acceptance. No one had bothered to find out why such customers were unhappy and, in the usual way, most had never voiced their reasons why they had stopped giving their business.

 

When you find a pattern as to why it has happened then anyone with a modicum would try and act on it, not dismiss it. In this way you can win back customers previously seen as lost causes.

 

Tsunami's business pedigree is running Newcastle speedway for 6 years. During that time was there a massive percentage increase in turnover? was there a huge profit increase ? or is success in his book simply not losing as much as some others.

 

What he is good at is finding reasons why things can't be done to improve things.

 

7 actually, check your maths. Do you really do your companies finances.

You really must have too much time on your hands if you think it is worth listening to all old customers, and think you are capable or can change everything that they complain about. In business it is about maximising your time and concentrating on the better opportunities with better results of success. BTW In my many roles I play a key part in looking for and helping implimenting anything that would improve things.

I DO, you just MOAN. I try to enhance the product, you just criticise.

[oldace]

Salesmen(even world experts ) don't create or run businesses. They provide opportunities and an income stream for others to manage. No good at it, and they just move on to another business. Minimum risk. If you own and run a speedway club, you don't have that easy getout, but an obligation to save it and try to expand it. Signing the right riders is the key to creating a good team and provide finances when you sell them, and also save loan fees. Look at the riders that Newcastle have signed over the years. Most clubs envy who we have signed, and wonder why emerging class riders want to be part of our team, year in year out. In the PL, Newcastle is regularly one of the best teams , within a group of about 4 to 5 teams. I wonder why. Not cos we employ a world class super salesman. No, it's down to being able to run a business. BTW. Guess who sold you Nicki P. :shock:

 

 

 

7 actually, check your maths. Do you really do your companies finances.

You really must have too much time on your hands if you think it is worth listening to all old customers, and think you are capable or can change everything that they complain about. In business it is about maximising your time and concentrating on the better opportunities with better results of success. BTW In my many roles I play a key part in looking for and helping implimenting anything that would improve things.

I DO, you just MOAN. I try to enhance the product, you just criticise.

 

It is very worthwhile listening to old customers, you can often find patterns as why they became ex customers. Sometimes it can be because the business changed and the loss of x amount of old customers was offset by the gain of y amount of new customers.

 

In a way I agree with you in that I am not the necessarily the type of fan the sport needs to be trying to attract itself to, certainly the 20/30 something market is what is missing at the moment, but has the sport done anything to attract and make itself cool to new fans?.

[Long Eye]

Tsunami's business pedigree is running Newcastle speedway for 6 years. During that time was there a massive percentage increase in turnover? was there a huge profit increase ? or is success in his book simply not losing as much as some others.

 

I would take a guess that there was a 100% increase in turnover when comparing 1996 to 1997.

[Tsunami]

It is very worthwhile listening to old customers, you can often find patterns as why they became ex customers. Sometimes it can be because the business changed and the loss of x amount of old customers was offset by the gain of y amount of new customers.

 

In a way I agree with you in that I am not the necessarily the type of fan the sport needs to be trying to attract itself to, certainly the 20/30 something market is what is missing at the moment, but has the sport done anything to attract and make itself cool to new fans?.

 

Thanks for that, I never did say never talk to previous customers(read my opening comments replying to Conkers posting). It's about prioritorising the market which gives greatest yields and success. As you say probably you and moxey say, are not the best subjects to target and every effort needs to be done to connect with younger folks especially say 30 year olds with children. One of the spinoffs of me having so many bikes and my free training school is it attracts youngsters who then start to come to speedway to see the real thing, and also bring their parents. I have a super showbike, with show covers and a clutch reaction machine fitted, which I take it to schools, shows, fayres, events and appeared at a major charity launch a couple of weeks ago at a major theatre in Newcastle. We were asked to open the show with a local comedian(see Facebook), and were able to get a plug 2 days before our Cup Final against Ipswich two days later.

There is a lot going on, a lot being done, a youth system about to provide a wealth of young riders and the continual signing of good developing mainly British riders who want to ride for Newcastle. It's an ongoing process.

 

I would take a guess that there was a 100% increase in turnover when comparing 1996 to 1997.

 

At least

[Steve Shovlar]

Time for action by the BSPA. No point waiting any longer for Sky to answer the phone. If they are refusing to talk, then time for the BSPA to pick up the phone and call BT Sport. What's the worst that could happen? Sky get the hump and refuse to give a new deal? it sounds like that is going to happen anyway.

 

Get on the phone to BT Sport, try and arrange a meeting and see where it takes us. If they are not interested then nothing is lost. If neither Sky or BT want to show UK Speedway in 2014 then TV coverage is gone for the time being and clubs can build their sides within the new budget levels.

 

Clearly the product would be much weaker and we would lose all the top riders but the sport will survive. We should not be beck and call to Sky's current refusal to speak.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Steve Shovlar

[BADGER69]

Sky will not negotiate untill Poole are guaranteed to be in the play offs again. Come on Matt sort it out

[Catalan]

For BSPA you mean Go Speed( Terry Russell) I presume.

 

[PHILIPRISING]

Time for action by the BSPA. No point waiting any longer for Sky to answer the phone. If they are refusing to talk, then time for the BSPA to pick up the phone and call BT Sport. What's the worst that could happen? Sky get the hump and refuse to give a new deal? it sounds like that is going to happen anyway.

 

Get on the phone to BT Sport, try and arrange a meeting and see where it takes us. If they are not interested then nothing is lost. If neither Sky or BT want to show UK Speedway in 2014 then TV coverage is gone for the time being and clubs can build their sides within the new budget levels.

 

Clearly the product would be much weaker and we would lose all the top riders but the sport will survive. We should not be beck and call to Sky's current refusal to speak.

 

DO you seriously think BT Sport haven't had a call?