Sky 2014

[PHILIPRISING]

Philip Rising in my opinion is very good at giving information on this forum, & its always fair & balanced. The forum would be a much worse place without him.

 

THANKS

[dave69]

Philip Rising in my opinion is very good at giving information on this forum, & its always fair & balanced. The forum would be a much worse place without him.

Would still be nice to have his views on the Belle Vue v Poole farce though .

[PHILIPRISING]

FARCE is about right. But I wasn't there. Had a chat with Kelvin Tatum about it and his view was that the meeting should never have started. Putting down sawdust and more material on an already saturated track only made matters worse in his opinion.

 

I have no concrete evidence there was any conspiracy but the fact that the meeting was conveniently called off when Poole were the requisite seven points ahead could only had fuel to the argument that there was.

 

Afraid that the governance of speedway in general (look at Poland last weekend) these days is pretty poor and undoubtedly one reason why TV companies aren't falling over themselves to cover a full season of domestic speedway in the UK.

[ch958]

what happened in Poland? is there a link or more details

[BWitcher]

what happened in Poland? is there a link or more details

 

Torun refused to race the 2nd leg of the play-off final as they were without the injured Gollob. A 17,000 crowd was sent home with no racing and the league title awarded to Zielena Gora (I think it was them).

[skthecat]

FARCE is about right. But I wasn't there. Had a chat with Kelvin Tatum about it and his view was that the meeting should never have started. Putting down sawdust and more material on an already saturated track only made matters worse in his opinion.

 

I have no concrete evidence there was any conspiracy but the fact that the meeting was conveniently called off when Poole were the requisite seven points ahead could only had fuel to the argument that there was.

 

Afraid that the governance of speedway in general (look at Poland last weekend) these days is pretty poor and undoubtedly one reason why TV companies aren't falling over themselves to cover a full season of domestic speedway in the UK.

 

FARCE is about right. But I wasn't there. Had a chat with Kelvin Tatum about it and his view was that the meeting should never have started. Putting down sawdust and more material on an already saturated track only made matters worse in his opinion.

 

I have no concrete evidence there was any conspiracy but the fact that the meeting was conveniently called off when Poole were the requisite seven points ahead could only had fuel to the argument that there was.

 

Afraid that the governance of speedway in general (look at Poland last weekend) these days is pretty poor and undoubtedly one reason why TV companies aren't falling over themselves to cover a full season of domestic speedway in the UK.

 

Phil, can you clarify why the covers were NOT used for this meeting? (Belle Vue v Poole) Thats if you know and I've missed the answer to this query in any other related post......

 

Cheers

Never to Old.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Never to old

[dave69]

FARCE is about right. But I wasn't there. Had a chat with Kelvin Tatum about it and his view was that the meeting should never have started. Putting down sawdust and more material on an already saturated track only made matters worse in his opinion.

 

I have no concrete evidence there was any conspiracy but the fact that the meeting was conveniently called off when Poole were the requisite seven points ahead could only had fuel to the argument that there was.

 

Afraid that the governance of speedway in general (look at Poland last weekend) these days is pretty poor and undoubtedly one reason why TV companies aren't falling over themselves to cover a full season of domestic speedway in the UK.

 

Thanks for the response , Phil .

Regards

[PHILIPRISING]

Phil, can you clarify why the covers were NOT used for this meeting? (Belle Vue v Poole) Thats if you know and I've missed the answer to this query in any other related post......

 

Cheers

Never to Old.

 

IT is the question no one (as yet) appears willing or able to answer...

[RobMcCaffery]

FARCE is about right. But I wasn't there. Had a chat with Kelvin Tatum about it and his view was that the meeting should never have started. Putting down sawdust and more material on an already saturated track only made matters worse in his opinion.

 

I have no concrete evidence there was any conspiracy but the fact that the meeting was conveniently called off when Poole were the requisite seven points ahead could only had fuel to the argument that there was.

 

Afraid that the governance of speedway in general (look at Poland last weekend) these days is pretty poor and undoubtedly one reason why TV companies aren't falling over themselves to cover a full season of domestic speedway in the UK.

 

Thanks for this Philip. It's a very troubled time for the sport. As one who paid for the Go-Speed streaming service I am very frustrated at the Polish situation where Torun's power and influence are similarly worrying. Miedzinski's riding in the play-offs was deplorable and the red card for Szombierski totally over the top. Both were huge factors in Torun's relative success.

 

I'll just throw one point into the debate on potential broadcasters of domestic British Speedway. Until recently I would have totally dismissed British Eurosport from the list of possibles - as you said earlier they have traditionally bought or been given programming rather than gone out to make it. This is a product of their origins as the sports arm of Eurovision, (yes, it's not just a song contest) carrying programming made by state broadcasters that couldn't be sold on the open market.

 

I've noticed a change recently. Taking on the GPs wasn't an enormous surprise since they fit the international nature of the channels. Lately though they've bought the UK rights to the Monday night NFL game which is a heck of a change in direction from international cycling, tennis and motorcycling. Now I've just read that Sky's coverage of the British Basketball League is switching to British Eurosport! I'm pretty sure this is the first time they've acquired a minority sport's domestic British league.

 

Now I'm pretty sure that there are many behind the scenes reasons why Eurosport aren't a contender since I can't see anyone wanting the coverage unless the rights were very cheap, having seen this season's farce. The editorial search for 'winners' does suggest a lack of faith in the overall product.

 

The BBL deal does show that things may be changing at British Eurosport. It was very noticeable how they improved their contribution to the GP coverage during the year, using Steve Day and Scott Nicholls instead of the original far from acceptable presenter who babbled his way through reviews of the heats during the gaps in the main BSI programme in the early programmes. Perhaps they realise that there is potential in the sport and it's worth investing in the coverage?

 

Personally I would love to see BT get involved since they currently have a major gap in midweek live sport and will need something to plug the gap next summer when the football and rugby finish. They have a very intelligent, polished approach. Oh well, it would be nice to think that speedway could fit that....

[SGP]

THE key thing though with Eurosport is that they don't have the OB facilities like SKY have. It is a big expense, staff, production trucks, satellite up-link and even catering.

 

I am sure if a third-party company provided the above, then I'm sure it'd be more appealing to Eurosport.

 

As I've said before, unless the BSPA sort out exactly what the product is, then SKY are likely to cut their ties; just like they did with the SGP.

 

PS - To the anti Phil Rising members out there; his input is always balanced and factual.

[PHILIPRISING]

GOOD points Rob although we need to recognise that the production costs for a full season's coverage of the Elite League would appear to be prohibitive.

 

One TV exec in Stockholm said bluntly: "Why would you pay all that money to cover events at sparsely populated stadiums, on poorly prepared tracks, at the whim of the weather and between teams that never seem to be at full strength?"

 

Tough to argue with that which is why, personally, I can see merit in the idea of one channel going in hard at the end of the season and covering the play-offs in Britain, Poland and Sweden. They might even be persuaded to do an odd meeting (British Final perhaps) along the way especially if BSI were to throw in the Cardiff wild card for the highest placed rider other than Tai.

[RobMcCaffery]

THE key thing though with Eurosport is that they don't have the OB facilities like SKY have. It is a big expense, staff, production trucks, satellite up-link and even catering.

 

I am sure if a third-party company provided the above, then I'm sure it'd be more appealing to Eurosport.

 

As I've said before, unless the BSPA sort out exactly what the product is, then SKY are likely to cut their ties; just like they did with the SGP.

 

PS - To the anti Phil Rising members out there; his input is always balanced and factual.

 

I'd be the first to point out that they buy programming rather than make it. These days though Sky, ITV and often even the BBC use outside OB crews hired-in for the purpose.

 

The big question is who will be providing the OB facilities for the basketball? It suggests that BE will have to start hiring facilities like the other major sports broadcasters.

 

GOOD points Rob although we need to recognise that the production costs for a full season's coverage of the Elite League would appear to be prohibitive.

 

One TV exec in Stockholm said bluntly: "Why would you pay all that money to cover events at sparsely populated stadiums, on poorly prepared tracks, at the whim of the weather and between teams that never seem to be at full strength?"

 

Tough to argue with that which is why, personally, I can see merit in the idea of one channel going in hard at the end of the season and covering the play-offs in Britain, Poland and Sweden. They might even be persuaded to do an odd meeting (British Final perhaps) along the way especially if BSI were to throw in the Cardiff wild card for the highest placed rider other than Tai.

 

We had the argument over empty stadia with Screen Sport thirty years ago. Some of the continuity announcers even went so far as to say "Over now to Rob in an empty stadium". It's hard when the main camera needs to sit above the majority of the crowd rather than facing.

 

You don't get that many people at basketball matches either by the way, although a few hundred do look better in a small sports hall and it is a much cheaper OB job.

 

I've been surprised that Sky's league coverage has lasted this long. Our coverage was on the cheap (VERY cheap) and I've been delighted to see the resources that Sky have put into the sport.

 

Sometimes though I have wondered if, given the state of the Elite League for several years, it isn't the wisest thing to put it on too public a display.

 

One lesson still doesn't seem to have been learnt - TV coverage is a shop window, not an easy subsidy for a financially-inefficient sport. PL clubs have been complimented for the efforts they've put in when covered - perhaps they weren't taking things for granted.

 

I'm in no doubt of the costs involved in covering a full season's speedway and the unlikelihood of anyone seeing it worthwhile. My comments were just to point out that British Eurosport are changing policy. Wishful thinking, not expectation.

 

I wonder what that exec would think of the Belle Vue Poole match if he were aware of the full circumstances? It was an insult to the viewers as well as those unfortunates who'd paid to get in.

 

Time to rebuild, if we can. The sport usually limps on somehow and there's still plenty of people looking to open tracks, it seems. We rely on people being willing to bail the sport out. We've been lucky that SKY did it for so long. That money should have been used to build a foundation, not thrown away on bikes.

[skthecat]

 

 

IT is the question no one (as yet) appears willing or able to answer...

 

Perhaps someone "in the know" would like to have a go at explaining this issue...

If Belle Vue were given the option to use the covers for this TV sceduled meeting and declined to use them, for whatever reason, it needs explaining to the paying public. ..

 

[ch958]

PS - To the anti Phil Rising members out there; his input is always balanced and factual.

 

 

seconded

I'd be quite happy for him to be part of a think tank/ panel to right some of the ills

[BWitcher]

FARCE is about right. But I wasn't there. Had a chat with Kelvin Tatum about it and his view was that the meeting should never have started. Putting down sawdust and more material on an already saturated track only made matters worse in his opinion.

 

I have no concrete evidence there was any conspiracy but the fact that the meeting was conveniently called off when Poole were the requisite seven points ahead could only had fuel to the argument that there was.

 

 

Most interesting Mr Rising. You seem to be leaning here towards a belief something untoward took place.

 

Yet in your column for Speedway Star Extra you stated that any such 'conspiracy theory' suggestions were utter nonsense.

 

In a column where you have limited space rather than take the time to lambast the way that meeting was run, you wasted column inches with a futile attack on the sports fans. For your information it wasn't just a few members of the 'BSF' who were outraged that night, it was supporters up and down the country.

[PHILIPRISING]

NOT at all. There is no real EVIDENCE of a conspiracy re BV versus Poole but said (or at least meant to) that the way things paned out helped give credence to those who believe there was.

 

What I actually wrote was: It was all too much for the conspiracy theorists who believe that Poole boss Matt Ford has the ability to manipulate any situation to his own advantage. Of course, most of the comments (regarding BV v Poole) on the various social media outlets, including the BSF, are utter nonsense.

 

That was hardly a futile attack on the sports fans. However, I do think that there are posters on here who have their own agendas rather than just opinions and sometimes pre-judge many things that go on according to their own prejudices without any evidence to support their theories. I stand by that.

 

Matt Ford is a classic example. By many he is the Darth Vader of speedway and no matter what he does their judgement of him is coloured by that assessment. And of course this is why the bsf (wrongly in my view) is so reviled by so many.

 

I would never write anything on here that I wouldn't do so in Speedway Star or any publication for that matter. But I do read posts that if they appeared in print would probably be the subject of legal action.

 

I prefer to view the bsf as, on balance, a force for good but I don't kid myself that that is always the case. When posts become more than personal opinions and contain statements that are factually incorrect the bsf like Twitter, Facebook and so can do more harm than good.

 

But that's just my opinion...

[The White Knight]

THE key thing though with Eurosport is that they don't have the OB facilities like SKY have. It is a big expense, staff, production trucks, satellite up-link and even catering.

 

I am sure if a third-party company provided the above, then I'm sure it'd be more appealing to Eurosport.

 

As I've said before, unless the BSPA sort out exactly what the product is, then SKY are likely to cut their ties; just like they did with the SGP.

 

PS - To the anti Phil Rising members out there; his input is always balanced and factual.

 

I think it is great that Philip takes the time to come on the Forum.

 

100% agree with this statement.

 

(unless you disagree with me of course ) Only kidding Philip.

[SteveLyric2]

NOT at all. There is no real EVIDENCE of a conspiracy re BV versus Poole but said (or at least meant to) that the way things paned out helped give credence to those who believe there was.

 

What I actually wrote was: It was all too much for the conspiracy theorists who believe that Poole boss Matt Ford has the ability to manipulate any situation to his own advantage. Of course, most of the comments (regarding BV v Poole) on the various social media outlets, including the BSF, are utter nonsense.

 

That was hardly a futile attack on the sports fans. However, I do think that there are posters on here who have their own agendas rather than just opinions and sometimes pre-judge many things that go on according to their own prejudices without any evidence to support their theories. I stand by that.

 

Matt Ford is a classic example. By many he is the Darth Vader of speedway and no matter what he does their judgement of him is coloured by that assessment. And of course this is why the bsf (wrongly in my view) is so reviled by so many.

 

I would never write anything on here that I wouldn't do so in Speedway Star or any publication for that matter. But I do read posts that if they appeared in print would probably be the subject of legal action.

 

I prefer to view the bsf as, on balance, a force for good but I don't kid myself that that is always the case. When posts become more than personal opinions and contain statements that are factually incorrect the bsf like Twitter, Facebook and so can do more harm than good.

 

But that's just my opinion...

Great post!!

[BWitcher]

NOT at all. There is no real EVIDENCE of a conspiracy re BV versus Poole but said (or at least meant to) that the way things paned out helped give credence to those who believe there was.

 

What I actually wrote was: It was all too much for the conspiracy theorists who believe that Poole boss Matt Ford has the ability to manipulate any situation to his own advantage. Of course, most of the comments (regarding BV v Poole) on the various social media outlets, including the BSF, are utter nonsense.

 

That was hardly a futile attack on the sports fans. However, I do think that there are posters on here who have their own agendas rather than just opinions and sometimes pre-judge many things that go on according to their own prejudices without any evidence to support their theories. I stand by that.

 

Matt Ford is a classic example. By many he is the Darth Vader of speedway and no matter what he does their judgement of him is coloured by that assessment. And of course this is why the bsf (wrongly in my view) is so reviled by so many.

 

I would never write anything on here that I wouldn't do so in Speedway Star or any publication for that matter. But I do read posts that if they appeared in print would probably be the subject of legal action.

 

I prefer to view the bsf as, on balance, a force for good but I don't kid myself that that is always the case. When posts become more than personal opinions and contain statements that are factually incorrect the bsf like Twitter, Facebook and so can do more harm than good.

 

But that's just my opinion...

 

I don't think you could be more wrong. On another thread there is a factually correct list of the 'incidents' that Ford has been involved in. Conspriacy theories aren't needed. That is why he is not popular. That is why he (and other promoters) have caused fans to walk away from the sport.

 

So again rather than look objectively at the long list of dodgy events that have occured with Poole you opted to take a swipe at fans, falsely accusing them of conspiracy theories.

 

You claim there isn't any evidence that the result of the Belle Vue V Poole meeting was fixed.. even when it was staring you in the face. Speedway fans are not as dumb as some promoters think they are and they can't cover things up now as they could in the past. Until they realise this and clean up their acts, the sport will continue its steady slide to oblivion.

 

None of us want that.

 

The sport is fantastic, the two playoff meetings re-enforced that. Why oh why can't promoters understand that working together will benefit them ALL rather than in-house fighting and manipulation of rules.

[pugwash]

10 likes for Mr Rising's opinion. 1 like for Mr BWitcher's opion. Shows a small snapshot of the general opion, in my opion.

(Sorry if too many opions)