F2 Speedway - Any Views?

[The White Knight]

I ment that 450 mx bike goes around the track for ages in hands of an amateur. Most guys ride them like a bus. Brrrr.. brööp! Brrr.. 2-3 gear and half throttle. 250s are different story. I have to change a piston again on my own. Sand tracks makes me almost sad when listening how my KTM screams just to survive.

 

Speedway maintenance is about 2h per bike after training/race? That is much, you have to be motivated to ride speedway. But speedway is very much a sport that you are into it or not. It is not like motocross that you can go and ride for fun few times a month. In speedway, you put everything in it. It can take everything from you every time ride it. I dont see the expenses as the reason. More like people are not into stuff so much. You need to be a kind of special for speedway. There is a lot of riders in a sport like motocross that is 3 times more expensive that speedway.

 

Yes - you do. MAD!!!

 

Great to watch them in action though - they ALL have my admiration.

[Vince]

this has been my point in previous posts. I would say that 90% of novices think anodized rims are more important than a clean air filter.

I think that if Jawa had put cam timing marks on their engines perhaps people would have been a bit more willing to try and do their own valve grinding and piston rings at least. There seem to be lots of youngsters willing to strip and repair their pitbike engines. Presumably that is part way down to the lesser cost if they mess up but also they don't actually have to have a thorough understanding of how an engine works because everything is marked up and easy to reassemble. There does seem to be a culture of needing an NEB clutch and Blixt carb in Speedway long before they can benefit from either. Obviously anodized rims are the exception as they make anybody so much faster!

[SCB]

this has been my point in previous posts. I would say that 90% of novices think anodized rims are more important than a clean air filter.

Even i know shiny bikes make things faster!

 

It's a long standing joke on the mini forum I am on that red engines are faster than any other due to people wanting to "modify" their car and in reality just wanting to paint it and chrome a few bits.

[speedibee]

And isn't it supposed to be beginners that these bikes are aimed at? Don't think I've seen any beginners ride full gas for 4 laps so like you I can't see the advantage of these bikes. it would be interesting to see them tested by some good riders independently though.

Sometimes I wonder about you Long Eye , FFS have you not listened to a single word of Vinces lectures , why keep arguing If Vince says these engines are cheaper to run then they are cheaper to run . if he says they ride exactly like a speedway bike the that's what they ride like , you know nothing about speedway . so why not just listen to someone who does and stop being argumentative .

[spinkox]

If Vince says these engines are cheaper to run then they are cheaper to run .

 

What if he says - there is life after death??

[Vince]

Sometimes I wonder about you Long Eye , FFS have you not listened to a single word of Vinces lectures , why keep arguing If Vince says these engines are cheaper to run then they are cheaper to run . if he says they ride exactly like a speedway bike the that's what they ride like , you know nothing about speedway . so why not just listen to someone who does and stop being argumentative .

But at least I back up my statements with facts and figures rather than 'I don't like anything so this is no good'

[The White Knight]

I think that if Jawa had put cam timing marks on their engines perhaps people would have been a bit more willing to try and do their own valve grinding and piston rings at least. There seem to be lots of youngsters willing to strip and repair their pitbike engines. Presumably that is part way down to the lesser cost if they mess up but also they don't actually have to have a thorough understanding of how an engine works because everything is marked up and easy to reassemble. There does seem to be a culture of needing an NEB clutch and Blixt carb in Speedway long before they can benefit from either. Obviously anodized rims are the exception as they make anybody so much faster!

 

Especially if they are on Eurosport. :wink:

[Ray Stadia]

Especially if they are on Eurosport. :wink:

Personally, in terms of looks, a clean/polished pair of chrome rims under the lights look the dogs cobblers! But all the weight from steel rims, would mean the bike would be a plodder!

[speedwayfun]

What makes me excited about using these motors is the thought of the japanese getting involved - imagine if it was only a tiny bit of interest from the factories!!!! It would be worth a lot to speedway.

Speedway going forwards to a level higher - look at the road racing interest on tv etc etc.

Honda, yamaha etc etc Or is it just a dream. My experience of japanese off road and competition bikes tells me that is the way. These motors are real gutsy and will last umpteen meetings.

[speedibee]

F2s at Leicester again last night . heres a close -up

[P T Preece]

 

You may well have seen them and not realised what they were as they are 100% speedway , and if they weren't announced you would not be able to tell the difference .

I do know the difference between a speedway engine and another type of engine and all Ive seen all season are blokes on speedway engines.

[speedibee]

 

 

I do know the difference between a speedway engine and another type of engine and all Ive seen all season are blokes on speedway engines.

I don't doubt you do know the difference . I thought I did, but then someone explained to me that I was mistaken , I was convinced I saw some bikes at Leicester with MX engines squeezed into speedway frames I didn't think they look or sound like speedway bikes when they were being ridden , but i was assured by the same person they were 100% speedway in every way , he knows a lot more about speedway and engines than I do so I just took his word for it ..

[Vince]

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. It's understandable that you might not realise that F2 Speedway bikes didn't have brakes despite your 30 years experience. It's equally easy to see how you could make the statement that it costs £4000 to rebuild a mx engine if you don't know any better. Everybody has their strengths though and yours is the way you can repeatedly make the same comments in slightly different ways while managing to entirely ignore any facts or figures that don't fit and avoiding using any facts yourself. You have an incredible ability and I would think Alastair Campbell will be in touch for some advice very soon.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Vince

[speedibee]

But at least I back up my statements with facts and figures rather than 'I don't like anything so this is no good'

make your mind up Vince , first you accuse me of not backing up statements with facts and figures , then you spuriously claim I made the statement £4,000 to service an MX engine

 

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. It's understandable that you might not realise that F2 Speedway bikes didn't have brakes despite your 30 years experience. It's equally easy to see how you could make the statement that it costs £4000 to rebuild a mx engine if you don't know any better. Everybody has their strengths though and yours is the way you can repeatedly make the same comments in slightly different ways while managing to entirely ignore any facts or figures that don't fit and avoiding using any facts yourself. You have an incredible ability and I would think Alastair Campbell will be in touch for some advice very soon.

Point out the Post where I have said £4,000 to service an MX engine please . I'm sure the other posters would be interested to see that , and so would I since I cant remember quoting any figures at all .

Something smells of vested interest here , your defensiveness and unwillingness to see another point of view , leads me to conclude you stand to profit somehow from the proliferation of MX equipment into speedway , Pete Seaton will be in touch soon to see about a supply of Mx engines

Edited October 29, 2013 by speedibee

[Vince]

Some time ago on another topic you clearly stated that it cost £4000 to rebuild a CRF 250 engine, I offered to do it for £2000 but you didn't take me up on it, that was a shame as I could have done with the excessive profit. As topics that old don't seem to be available any more then I am sure you are aware can't link to it so if it makes you happy to lie that you didn't say it carry on.

I can easily see another point of view, if you read what is written you will see that I have said more than once that I don't necessarily see F2 Speedway as the way forward but that I do think it deserves proper consideration. I can accept that somebody doesn't like watching F2 Speedway bikes, I couldn't let the statement that they were ridden like shorttrack go because it is impossible. In the same way the blanket statement that Speedway engine parts were less expensive than their MX counterparts could be proven wrong as the figures are easily available.

No vested interest but quite a few years of paying for MX and a few paying for Speedway has left me with a clear view of what I think offers the better value for money. As my real passion has always been for Speedway I would like to see the sport survive and cant see the logic of complaining about everything that anybody suggests might help the long term future of the sport. MX clearly has something to teach Speedway when their practice days are attended by ten times the number of riders that Speedway ones are.

[Ray Stadia]

As I have said in an earlier post on this thread, unless the engine is a single cylinder engine, burning methanol, ideally lubricated by castor oil and linked up to a counter shaft, many will say 'it isn't speedway'. I can understand that view and hold it too, to some degree. However, we all agree that we wouldlike to see speedway survive into the future and cost control will help achieve that. The MX engine idea is clearly creating a barrier. MX engines have been used successfully for many years in Grass track, but Grass Track has a history of using whatever you can get into a Grass Track frame. Speedway for many years has never had that legacy. The engines have always been specifically manufactured for speedway. Yes, in the pioneering days you would see all sorts of engines on the track. Therefore, for F2 to be successful and I think it could and should be, the bike/engines on offer need to resemble first class machinery, but on a budget basis. Whether that means GM/JRM producing budget versions or sourcing a manufacturer to produce an engine which is cheaper to buy and service. Maybe see what China has to offer? Russia? And perhaps the Royal Enfield people in India, they are used to producing single cylinder engines without gearboxes, although I believe their latest Bullet is a unit engine.

[ryecastle]

 

Nothing said at the time but what was the second half race between Ben Morley and Tyson Nelson about? Certainly Nelson's bike with the huge handlebars looked a bit unusual or maybe he had just put them on a regular machine which, without the covers either; made it look different from the norm. .

Edited October 29, 2013 by ryecastle

[speedibee]

Some time ago on another topic you clearly stated that it cost £4000 to rebuild a CRF 250 engine, I offered to do it for £2000 but you didn't take me up on it, that was a shame as I could have done with the excessive profit. As topics that old don't seem to be available any more then I am sure you are aware can't link to it so if it makes you happy to lie that you didn't say it carry on.

I can easily see another point of view, if you read what is written you will see that I have said more than once that I don't necessarily see F2 Speedway as the way forward but that I do think it deserves proper consideration. I can accept that somebody doesn't like watching F2 Speedway bikes, I couldn't let the statement that they were ridden like shorttrack go because it is impossible. In the same way the blanket statement that Speedway engine parts were less expensive than their MX counterparts could be proven wrong as the figures are easily available.

No vested interest but quite a few years of paying for MX and a few paying for Speedway has left me with a clear view of what I think offers the better value for money. As my real passion has always been for Speedway I would like to see the sport survive and cant see the logic of complaining about everything that anybody suggests might help the long term future of the sport. MX clearly has something to teach Speedway when their practice days are attended by ten times the number of riders that Speedway ones are.

 

Some time ago on another topic you clearly stated that it cost £4000 to rebuild a CRF 250 engine, I offered to do it for £2000 but you didn't take me up on it, that was a shame as I could have done with the excessive profit. As topics that old don't seem to be available any more then I am sure you are aware can't link to it so if it makes you happy to lie that you didn't say it carry on.

I can easily see another point of view, if you read what is written you will see that I have said more than once that I don't necessarily see F2 Speedway as the way forward but that I do think it deserves proper consideration. I can accept that somebody doesn't like watching F2 Speedway bikes, I couldn't let the statement that they were ridden like shorttrack go because it is impossible. In the same way the blanket statement that Speedway engine parts were less expensive than their MX counterparts could be proven wrong as the figures are easily available.

No vested interest but quite a few years of paying for MX and a few paying for Speedway has left me with a clear view of what I think offers the better value for money. As my real passion has always been for Speedway I would like to see the sport survive and cant see the logic of complaining about everything that anybody suggests might help the long term future of the sport. MX clearly has something to teach Speedway when their practice days are attended by ten times the number of riders that Speedway ones are.

Quite frankly I am past caring what you have to say , I have put you on ignore because I am tired of sseing you put words on the page that you attribute to me , I would tell you to find where I have said £4,000 to repair an engine but I wont because I know you can';t I never said it and it will just bring forth more gilded rubbish from you , so in future just post whatever you like and if anyone is gullible enough to take it in that's their lookout . Ill just go join another debate where people have a more realistic view