mudflaps Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) Horton made a shedful in 2006 but turned it into a loss maker by the decisions he took, much like Frost, although RF just didn't stop the slide. So you think the decisions made at the AGM will not create more hopeless cases? Apparantly it was the fact that Swindon used our assets every season without paying transfer/loan fees that pushed Mr Frosty over the edge!! Edited November 18, 2013 by Flyin Panther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 What happens to the Boro assets now ? Could we get NKI on a bargain from the BSPA ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudflaps Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 What happens to the Boro assets now ? Could we get NKI on a bargain from the BSPA ? Obviously they remain Peterbrough assets and form part of the agreed sale should a buyer be found...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 So you think the decisions made at the AGM will not create more hopeless cases? I don't think we really know enough detail yet to make any determination. The draft riders aspect seems realistic in the circumstances, and could be a positive development, but as with so many things in speedway we're likely to be disappointed by the actual implementation. Sadly though, I don't think it doesn't really matters what speedway does. It's got itself into a downward spiral of under-investment in an era of changing tastes and increasing demands, and it's difficult to see how it can extract itself now. Ultimately, I suspect the sport will survive in some places, but probably no longer at a full-time professional level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Speedway has gazzumped Norwich City football on BBC Radio Norfolk today so far with interviews with Buster and Niels about the conference, hopes for next season and the demise of PEterborough at the mo :-) Just what the doc ordered! And just what we need, keep it coming BBC!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Obviously they remain Peterbrough assets and form part of the agreed sale should a buyer be found...! UNLESS of course someone decides to challenge the whole rider assets nonsense... would then be a much more attractive proposition for any potential buyer of the licence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Doubt he had much of a choice. He had to find a buyer quickly, and presumably Frost was only person that could be found with enough cash who was willing to take on the loss-making enterprise. Most people with speedway backgrounds have no money, because successful business people don't tend to want to waste their cash on hopeless cases... That does sum things up neatly. People with money who know the sport don't invest their cash - in most cases the new investors are attracted by the supposed glamour of running a club and enjoy it all until their financial fingers start to burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 UNLESS of course someone decides to challenge the whole rider assets nonsense... would then be a much more attractive proposition for any potential buyer of the licence. Not sure what the current system is now but I was aware that former clubs were given 3 years to sell their assets previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 I don't think we really know enough detail yet to make any determination. The draft riders aspect seems realistic in the circumstances, and could be a positive development, but as with so many things in speedway we're likely to be disappointed by the actual implementation. Sadly though, I don't think it doesn't really matters what speedway does. It's got itself into a downward spiral of under-investment in an era of changing tastes and increasing demands, and it's difficult to see how it can extract itself now. Ultimately, I suspect the sport will survive in some places, but probably no longer at a full-time professional level. A very sound comment. Most of my feelings are expressed there. Speedway has gazzumped Norwich City football on BBC Radio Norfolk today so far with interviews with Buster and Niels about the conference, hopes for next season and the demise of PEterborough at the mo :-) Just what the doc ordered! And just what we need, keep it coming BBC!!! A speedway story on BBC. theoretically very good but notice it is in regard to a set-back/problem in the sport. I wonder when they will carry an upbeat story. How many minutes did they devote to it? I wonder how soon it will be before Norwich City and its exploits are again top of the sports roster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 A very sound comment. Most of my feelings are expressed there. A speedway story on BBC. theoretically very good but notice it is in regard to a set-back/problem in the sport. I wonder when they will carry an upbeat story. How many minutes did they devote to it? I wonder how soon it will be before Norwich City and its exploits are again top of the sports roster? No surprise they latch onto Speedway in the middle of an International Break. No news coming out of Carrow Road, as most of the players are away on International duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudflaps Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) UNLESS of course someone decides to challenge the whole rider assets nonsense... would then be a much more attractive proposition for any potential buyer of the licence. Would be interesting to find out how a ) Mr Frost values his assets with regards to appreciation/depreciation for balance sheet purposes b ) What Mr Frost currently values his assets as and the value of the goodwill locked into the sale value of Peterbough Speedway Edited November 18, 2013 by Flyin Panther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 IT'S the same old chestnut ... if Peterborough Speedway (or whatever the holding company is) have no riders currently under contract how can they be legally deemed assets? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Shaker Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Would be interesting to find out how a ) Mr Frost values his assets with regards to appreciation/depreciation for balance sheet purposes b ) What Mr Frost currently values his assets as and the value of the goodwill locked into the sale value of Peterbough Speedway Probably has a good accountant to whittle all this down to zero to avoid any capital gains tax on a sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 and which Promoter would be willing to pay out good money on something that may or may not be classed as an asset in the very near future ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 a ) Mr Frost values his assets with regards to appreciation/depreciation for balance sheet purposes Rider assets usually only receive a nominal or zero value in the books because they inherently have no residual worth, and I think if a promotion is wound-up, the riders revert to being assets of the BSPA. I think a former promoter can still receive any transfer or loan fees for 3 years, minus any outstanding rider wages or other debts, but I'm not sure they have any involvement in the selling or loaning process if they're no longer active. I'd imagine any sale of a promotion would involve transfer of the assets for an agreed price, but if another potential promoter knows the other wants to get out, I doubt they're going to be offering the full perceived value of those assets. IT'S the same old chestnut ... if Peterborough Speedway (or whatever the holding company is) have no riders currently under contract how can they be legally deemed assets? Even if they had them under contract, how could they be legally deemed assets? We all know this basically a old gentleman's agreement that would be unenforceable if anyone really wants to rock the boat. I must say though, I do wonder what's brought on this concern for riders' rights as I still don't remember (m)any editorials denouncing the evils of a system keeping riders as indentured chattels over the years I read the Star? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiegal Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 and which Promoter would be willing to pay out good money on something that may or may not be classed as an asset in the very near future ? Nobody with an ounce of brain cells would pay 1 single penny for any "Rider Assets"...it simply doesn't make commercial or legal sense. The only way in law a rider has asset value is if all contracts were held by say the BSPA...then they could apportion/value that asset. The value of any business is in its Goodwill and actual (physical) asset value. You can ask what you like for a business..even say £500k...but something is only worth what somebody will pay....simple really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 IF Rick Frost doesn't wish to hire/lease the Showground wouldn't the Showground authorities be at liberty to enter into an agreement within anyone else willing to do so? If Frost (as an example) has no rider assets and doesn't own the stadium what exactly does he have to sell? If I rented premises and ran a sandwich shop in Surbiton high street and walked away, what would stop someone else from hiring the facility and opening his own sandwich shop? Therem ust be some restraint of trade considerations in there somewhere. Rider assets usually only receive a nominal or zero value in the books because they inherently have no residual worth, and I think if a promotion is wound-up, the riders revert to being assets of the BSPA. I think a former promoter can still receive any transfer or loan fees for 3 years, minus any outstanding rider wages or other debts, but I'm not sure they have any involvement in the selling or loaning process if they're no longer active.I'd imagine any sale of a promotion would involve transfer of the assets for an agreed price, but if another potential promoter knows the other wants to get out, I doubt they're going to be offering the full perceived value of those assets.Even if they had them under contract, how could they be legally deemed assets? We all know this basically a old gentleman's agreement that would be unenforceable if anyone really wants to rock the boat.I must say though, I do wonder what's brought on this concern for riders' rights as I still don't remember (m)any editorials denouncing the evils of a system keeping riders as indentured chattels over the years I read the Star? YOU must have missed those pages then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiegal Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Totally correct Phil.....the only problems in all of this would the 1. The Showground who just may say "No more"...and any incoming tennant would need some form of guarantee on a lease 2.What price Mr Frost would set on his assets. 3. If the business has lost money...then what level headed buyer would pay good money for it ?..4.I would suggest that any incoming prospective promoter must not have the name of Ribbans !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudflaps Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 IF Rick Frost doesn't wish to hire/lease the Showground wouldn't the Showground authorities be at liberty to enter into an agreement within anyone else willing to do so? If Frost (as an example) has no rider assets and doesn't own the stadium what exactly does he have to sell? If I rented premises and ran a sandwich shop in Surbiton high street and walked away, what would stop someone else from hiring the facility and opening his own sandwich shop? Therem ust be some restraint of trade considerations in there somewhere. Agreed - but he does have considerable rider assets (approx 20 current riders by my calculation) as to what they are actually worth is anyone guess. Therefore what is someone prepared to pay to transfer the ownership of these assets and then negotiate hiring the EOES to stage speedway... ? With no current debts according to Rick Frost - just how much Wonga will it tempt him to sell the Panthers - surely anything in better than nothing in this economic climate... Rick Frost could be stubborn and dig his heels in and maybe get some sort of return on his Panthers Project or write the investment off for the good for the Peterborough fans of Speedway and let someone else have a crack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
posh panther Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) I just cant understand why they just didnt sell up at the end of the season so someone else could take us on????Please explain Rick...Its like having a ferrari on credit that you cant afford and instead of letting it go you would rather crash it so no one else can have it or enjoy it! Edited November 18, 2013 by posh panther 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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