Ipswich V Edinburgh 12/09

[Arson fire]

Still don't understand why Cook is getting slated for heat 15!!!!

 

What were people expecting him to do, get off and shove and wait for the other 3 to catch up and hope Tabaka got past one of the Ipswich riders and that Cook didn't get past himself?

 

Cook done the right thing clear off and win the race and give Tabaka the rest of the track to try and make a pass unfortunately that didn't happen so there isn't a lot that can be done about it now!

how is that the right thing?? It's not the Craig cook show, the object is for the TEAM to pick up as many points as they can surely?? Each to their own but I'd be unhappy if my team did it... Christ cook could have gone through the tapes and still passed riders if he was that faster.

[TheScotsman]

Interesting to hear that Joe said on Friday that there was no way Cookie could have slowed the race down for Joe to get past Tungate and Barker who were too good for that.

He had to go for the win.

 

And you'll see on the Chatzone Updates for the Newcie v Monarchs match, the comment re heat 11........

 

Heat 11

Rosen, Schramm, Cook, Sneddon

 

Result: Sneddon, Cook, Rosen, Schramm (65.8) 1-5 (34-32)

Deek around the outside which allowed Cookie through the inside,Cook rode good race to protect Deek.

 

 

Not a team rider?

[Arson fire]

Interesting to hear that Joe said on Friday that there was no way Cookie could have slowed the race down for Joe to get past Tungate and Barker who were too good for that.

He had to go for the win.

 

And you'll see on the Chatzone Updates for the Newcie v Monarchs match, the comment re heat 11........

 

Heat 11

Rosen, Schramm, Cook, Sneddon

 

Result: Sneddon, Cook, Rosen, Schramm (65.8) 1-5 (34-32)

Deek around the outside which allowed Cookie through the inside,Cook rode good race to protect Deek.

 

 

Not a team rider?

ah the chat zone.... The font of all unbiased knowledge ....even tonight..

.... Last heat of the play off final, monarchs need a 4-2 to take the title...top man cookie clears off into the distance leaving poor joe to fend for himself against barker and risager ... Who team ride well ensuring Ipswich are 2013 premier league champs...wild celebrations follow from the monarchs, because cook has a 18 point max and has equalled the track record!!...well done Craig, we love you.... But we dont give a toss about you joe....Give over man...

Edited September 16, 2013 by Arson fire

[Arch Stanton]

Interesting to hear that Joe said on Friday that there was no way Cookie could have slowed the race down for Joe to get past Tungate and Barker who were too good for that.

He had to go for the win.

 

And you'll see on the Chatzone Updates for the Newcie v Monarchs match, the comment re heat 11........

 

Heat 11

Rosen, Schramm, Cook, Sneddon

 

Result: Sneddon, Cook, Rosen, Schramm (65.8) 1-5 (34-32)

Deek around the outside which allowed Cookie through the inside,Cook rode good race to protect Deek.

 

 

Not a team rider?

Not on Thursday he wasn't, no.

[TheScotsman]

ah the chat zone.... The font of all unbiased knowledge ....even tonight..

.... Last heat of the play off final, monarchs need a 4-2 to take the title...top man cookie clears off into the distance leaving poor joe to fend for himself against barker and risager ... Who team ride well ensuring Ipswich are 2013 premier league champs...wild celebrations follow from the monarchs, because cook has a 18 point max and has equalled the track record!!...well done Craig, we love you.... But we dont give a toss about you joe....Give over man...

 

OK - from the official site then............

Craig Cook was exceptional again in scoring his fourth successive maximum at Premier level. He team rode Derek Sneddon home in heat 11 for a 5-1

 

 

Interesting bit of forecasting there.

However it's doomed to failure because I somehow think Ippo will be in the same group as Edinburgh and there is no way Edinburgh will get to the final unless a few of the team start to score some points consistently.

 

 

Oh forgot to ask - were you at Ippo last Thursday to see what actually happened?

[Travertine]

Still don't understand why Cook is getting slated for heat 15!!!! .....................

 

This just demonstrates a wilful ignorance to accept the facts - there have been enough statements to substantiate what happened up to and during heat 15 for anyone to understand what happened, whether they were at the meeting or not. Enough has been posted that you don't need to have been there (especially Mr Scotsman!).

 

To not understand is not the same as agreeing with what has been stated - many disagree with the decisions made, but the effect it had on the final result cannot be argued. Let the arguments continue, and keep this forum stoked up and a haven of comment, but don't try to feign ignorance by not understanding.

[Nutz]

Jeez - give it a break... I've painfully read through the pas few pages since I posted last and all it states is Cook bashing for not team-riding in heat 15? Don't you think you're doing an injustice to 2 experienced men around Foxhall thinking that if Joe had have taken the better gate 2 that he could've picked up a point from either of them for the win?

 

The chances of Cook making the gate from gate 4 ahead of any of the inside 3 gates was next to impossible so he'd not only have had to beat both Witches during the race but also pass his partner (if we're accepting that Cookie would have won the race)... Not an easy thing to do...

 

I was disappointed with Thursday's result as I thought we had a chance of snatching at least a point - Ipswich were there for the taking... However, the meeting didn't come down to heat 15. There wasn't the back-up for Cook or Tabaka and the match point(s) were lost well before heat 15.

 

Lets just all move on... Ipswich were more solid on their home patch on the night, Edinburgh had the star of the show without enough back-up. I'm sure it's not the last time these two will come together this season and as I think the play-off groups may just come down to points difference, therefore, there's not a problem. See you in the Play-offs.

[Arson fire]

 

 

OK - from the official site then............

Craig Cook was exceptional again in scoring his fourth successive maximum at Premier level. He team rode Derek Sneddon home in heat 11 for a 5-1

 

 

Interesting bit of forecasting there.

However it's doomed to failure because I somehow think Ippo will be in the same group as Edinburgh and there is no way Edinburgh will get to the final unless a few of the team start to score some points consistently.

 

 

Oh forgot to ask - were you at Ippo last Thursday to see what actually happened?

no I wasn't, but not really on about that, it's the ideal that monarchs are more bothered about cook getting a max and beating barker, rather than the TEAM getting a point...I'm trying to point out that cook can get all the maximums he wants but sometimes he has to sacrifice them for the good of his side.

Lets face it he's head and shoulders the best rider in the PL.... But it's not doing his team mate any good if he's half a lap in front when the team needs a 4-2, he's that good and that much better than most that he should be able to go off the worst gate and still win or Shepard his inferior team mate around.... Would you be happy if that scenario repeated itself in the play off final or last heat decider of the cup??.... Teams will just let cook go and team ride the other out of it.... Thus cookie gets his max but Edinburgh win Nowt... Ipswich would have been creaming their pants when they seen tabaka off the worst gate and probably wouldn't even have thought about cook.

[TheScotsman]

I don't think monarchs fans have been bothered more about Cookie's max at all.

I think it was Ippo fans who raised it.

 

Yes it was good that he finished ahead of Barker 3 times but only really because of the heatergate affair leading to his match exclusion.

And in fairness, Barker looked nothing like 100% fit.

 

Every Monarchs fan that I know of is just disappointed that when Cookie has come on some blistering form, some of his teammates have gone backwards in scoring.

 

Max unfortunately picked up injury and illness and is a way below the standard he was riding to a few weeks ago. (This is in no way a criticism of Max who has had an outstanding season.)

 

Sneddon has had a decent season but obviously the run up to his testimonial took away a bit of an edge.

 

Visssing has been so up and down.

 

And losing Mitchell Davey when he was hitting some good form was a blow. He probably came back too soon after the first break and is of course now out long term. The NL guests have done very well - take a bow Josh Bates and Liam Carr - but Mitchell might have scored better home and away.

 

And then there's Joe Tabaka!!!

Fantastic trier, lousy gater, but such an enigma!!

Maximum man at home - big scores at Somerset and Ippo - and novice type scores in between!!!

You never know which Joe will turn up.

But to expect him to finish ahead of Tungate or Barker in a heat 15 decider at Ippo? I don't think so, not even if he had first pick of gates.

 

 

So I think most Monarchs fans accept that the team is mainly 1 man at the moment and that the all round strength of Somerset, Ippo and Newcastle will see us off and there will not be much that Cookie can do about it.

[Nutz]

And losing Mitchell Davey when he was hitting some good form was a blow. He probably came back too soon after the first break and is of course now out long term. The NL guests have done very well - take a bow Josh Bates and Liam Carr - but Mitchell might have scored better home and away.

 

Agree with most of that Scotsman, with the exception of the above... Mitchell - as nice a guy as he is, was in terrible form when he was sadly injured. Both Liam and Josh have been a breath of fresh air in the side - especially at home where I think we're more vulnerable than away.

 

We need both Joe and Max back to their best for Somerset on Wednesday - a track both like very much and maybe Derek back to his normal self now his Testimonial is out the way.

 

Theo is hit and miss away from home but practically irreplaceable around Armadale and Claus is... well, Claus!!

 

Cookie can't do it all on his own - you're right. However, if all the boys peak during the play-offs, I think we'll be right up there against the Somerset, Ipswich and Newcastle's of this league.

[London Witch]

Ipswich would have been creaming their pants when they seen tabaka off the worst gate and probably wouldn't even have thought about cook.

 

To be honest, the fans were saying ignore Cook let him go and concentrate on beating the rest of them, which exactly what happened.

 

This has been done to death now, but the one thing still niggling me is the reluctance to say well done to Ipswich for winning. We have pages on here and on the Edinburgh/Ippo thread from Ipswich fans praising Cook and congratulating Edinburgh on a great win at Armadale but nothing in return. Makes me sad.

[TheScotsman]

 

 

Agree with most of that Scotsman, with the exception of the above... Mitchell - as nice a guy as he is, was in terrible form when he was sadly injured. Both Liam and Josh have been a breath of fresh air in the side - especially at home where I think we're more vulnerable than away.

 

We need both Joe and Max back to their best for Somerset on Wednesday - a track both like very much and maybe Derek back to his normal self now his Testimonial is out the way.

 

Theo is hit and miss away from home but practically irreplaceable around Armadale and Claus is... well, Claus!!

 

Cookie can't do it all on his own - you're right. However, if all the boys peak during the play-offs, I think we'll be right up there against the Somerset, Ipswich and Newcastle's of this league.

 

Nutz - I was referring to Mitchell's form before his wrist break at Glasgow. I seem to remember he was going well. He was way out of form when he then broke his leg but came back too soon to have got his confidence back.

[cyclone]

The great gate 2 vs gate 4 myth:-

 

Actual results hts 1 -14 :

 

Winners gate 2: Barker ht6 Cook ht 13

 

Winners gate 4: Risager ht 4 Cook ht 5 (equal track record)

 

Points scored (removing doubling tr points) : gate 2 - 18 gate 4 - 18

 

Those who were there & accurately recorded the results, recheck for themselves.

 

Ipswich would have been creaming their pants when they seen tabaka off the worst gate and probably wouldn't even have thought about cook.

 

So on what basis do you reckon Tabaka was off the worst gate ?

 

All I have said is that I thought Cook should have taken gate 4, to give Tabaka the best chance to be in the mix at the start.

 

 

As you have previously stated you not buy a programme, do you record the gate stats by some other means and if so, on what basis did you conclude that gate 2 was the better option ?

Edited September 16, 2013 by cyclone

[Arson fire]

He took gate 2 in heat 15 leaving Tabaka with the iffy gate 4 when needing a heat advantage to get a point. Then shot off and allowed Ben and Rohan to team ride a 3-3.

 

I have just asked him why and he said he would not have been confident of getting past if didnt make it off 4. (which surprised me given his dominance all night)

 

He said they felt it was a better plan for him to go out and win it and just see how it went for Tabaka.

this any help cyclone??

[TheScotsman]

I have never said that Cook should have tried to slow down the race from his leading position after taking gate 2, and I don't think baldyman or dontforgetthefueltapsbruv have either.

 

All I have said is that I thought Cook should have taken gate 4, to give Tabaka the best chance to be in the mix at the start.

 

PS: Scotsman - take a look at Heat 10, and ask yourself why Pijper was overlooked for the Joker ride. Tabaka got between the Witches riders ...

 

You may not have said that but plenty others on the thread have said it.

 

Yes I was surprised that Joe got the TR instead of Theo but in their previous outing in heat 7, Joe passed Theo early on and made a better fist of it than Theo.

Obviously the Team Manager is the best one to answer why else Joe was chosen ahead of Theo.

As it turned out it was a good decision because Joe took 2nd instead of Theo's 4th but there again Theo after a decent first ride only mustered 2 thirds from his next 3 rides so was hardly on top of his game.

 

Since it seems some Ippo fans are crying out for praise, I am happy to accommodate - Ipswich were comfortably the better team on the night so well done - no quibble.

Just as Cookie was comfortably the best rider on the night so well done - and there should be no quibble about gates, team riding or any of that crap.

Monarchs were well beaten even with 5 joker points and Cookie was never going to change that.

 

I'm old enough to remember Ivan Mauger dominating the PL in the early sixties.

He got the same kind of stick that Cookie is getting now.

I bet Cookie is well chuffed about it all.

(And before anyone starts jumping up and down - you know who you are! - I am not saying Cookie is or ever will be in Mauger's class!! )

[Bash]

So answer me this why did Cook look round on the last lap entering turn three and roll off the throttle too late to make any difference?

[TheScotsman]

You'll have to ask him that.

 

Probably because he was half a lap ahead and wanted to save his engine!

Edited September 16, 2013 by TheScotsman

[speedway72]

Those who would like to know what it was really like buy the DVD !

[TheScotsman]

Good plug!!