FTM Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 To anyone that's come into this thread with big ideas and no research, please have a look at the following before making yourselves look sillier than you already are; http://www.airfence.com/airfencespeedwayorig_safest.html http://www.airfence.com/pdf/as.pdf http://www.championproducts.info/TIBS_Manual_for_FIM_2.pdf http://www.championproducts.info/Polyfoam_Brochure.pdf I still stand by my idea of dropping the bags into a trench would be a more secure way of ensuring the bags didnt lift on impact The photos you have shown of both systems still have the bags sitting on the track surface and as I stated before a bike hitting the fence at speed at the bottom of bags will invariably lift them up giving virtually no protection for a rider hurtling into fence at speed.I don,t know if your comment about being silly was aimed at me, or other poster, if it was me as I said at the start of my original post I have erected and taken down air fences from the inception so I don,t consider my comments silly in any way and maybe your comment could be retracted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 I still stand by my idea of dropping the bags into a trench would be a more secure way of ensuring the bags didnt lift on impact The photos you have shown of both systems still have the bags sitting on the track surface and as I stated before a bike hitting the fence at speed at the bottom of bags will invariably lift them up giving virtually no protection for a rider hurtling into fence at speed.I don,t know if your comment about being silly was aimed at me, or other poster, if it was me as I said at the start of my original post I have erected and taken down air fences from the inception so I don,t consider my comments silly in any way and maybe your comment could be retracted. The current design has the bottom of the fence secure to the bottom of the fence with kickboards still utilised as additional support and stiffening. It is tied down now and possibly it wasn't in your days, in addition there now a plastic bung under the fence for the fence to sit on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 I still stand by my idea of dropping the bags into a trench would be a more secure way of ensuring the bags didnt lift on impact The photos you have shown of both systems still have the bags sitting on the track surface and as I stated before a bike hitting the fence at speed at the bottom of bags will invariably lift them up giving virtually no protection for a rider hurtling into fence at speed.I don,t know if your comment about being silly was aimed at me, or other poster, if it was me as I said at the start of my original post I have erected and taken down air fences from the inception so I don,t consider my comments silly in any way and maybe your comment could be retracted. If you consider your experience on the subject equates to a lack of research then feel free to be offended. I think we're still in an interim period where APBs are considered to be an accessory rather than an integral part of the structure with promoters/curators reluctant to compromise their precious track surface. I can't see any reason why in the future your idea couldn't be implemented, given enough space, outside the confines of the track itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 Being old I can remember the helmet law coming in, what I can't remember are examples of riders being badly hurt because they were wearing them rather than the previously accepted safety equipment. That argument could only hold water if there were previously no fences in place. The arguments against introducing helmets were all based on individual freedom, there was never any dispute about them being safer. However riders like Chris Holder and Luke Priest are there as examples that all is not right with the air fence and both would very likely have received far less serious injuries with a solid or mesh fence. To my mind there is absolutely no doubt that in the majority of cases an air fence provides increased safety for riders, however there are also circumstances where other fences are likely to be at least as safe and quite likely better. Air fences at their best are brilliant, poorly installed they can be bloody dangerous. Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Just had to drag this up again... I tried quickly to find the acu rule book about APD's. Did not find one. The question is, how long are the airfences in UK speedway valid from new until they have to be re-inspected? Or are they all FIM homologated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 The only product I can think of that could be used behind an air fence, is used converyer belting. It could be sourced maybe free of charge from belting people when they re-new an old belt as they only throw it away.. It would come in long enough lenths to cover the air bags and can be easily joined and could be buried under the ground part way with the rest abouve grouns fixed in some way. It is flexible enough to stop the rider from going under the fence and bring them to a safe stop. Just an idea to work for the re-cycling industry. May just help to save a few guys from some bad injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 if air fences are the answer to safety, why dont we have them down the straights, riders still get injured hitting the fence there, or would they cost too much to put all around the track? and if cost is a factor, how does that fit with rider safety? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 if air fences are the answer to safety, why dont we have them down the straights, riders still get injured hitting the fence there, or would they cost too much to put all around the track? and if cost is a factor, how does that fit with rider safety? Got nothing to do with cost. In an early GP, Lucas Dryml caught the air fence, just before the start gate, and cartwheeled down the straight, as did his bike. Other riders had to pass so it was decided that the track was safer with just the bends using an air fence, as the straight air fence pulled him into the middle. The general guideline is that the corner should start as from a line straight ahead from the 3rd gate, and finish once the straight starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Got nothing to do with cost. In an early GP, Lucas Dryml caught the air fence, just before the start gate, and cartwheeled down the straight, as did his bike. Other riders had to pass so it was decided that the track was safer with just the bends using an air fence, as the straight air fence pulled him into the middle. The general guideline is that the corner should start as from a line straight ahead from the 3rd gate, and finish once the straight starts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIASAOxpEaU 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Just had to drag this up again... I tried quickly to find the acu rule book about APD's. Did not find one. The question is, how long are the airfences in UK speedway valid from new until they have to be re-inspected? Or are they all FIM homologated? It's six years. So ACU/BSPA has their own method to check them, since they give a year more lifetime to a fence than the FIM does. http://www.scbgb.co.uk/pdf/regulations/2014%20SPEEDWAY%20REGULATIONS.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Got nothing to do with cost. In an early GP, Lucas Dryml caught the air fence, just before the start gate, and cartwheeled down the straight, as did his bike. Other riders had to pass so it was decided that the track was safer with just the bends using an air fence, as the straight air fence pulled him into the middle. The general guideline is that the corner should start as from a line straight ahead from the 3rd gate, and finish once the straight starts. so are you saying this cant happen on the bends as well? and if it does will they be removed on the bends as well? and will all riders that fall off on the straights get their foot rests caught in the fence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 so are you saying this cant happen on the bends as well? and if it does will they be removed on the bends as well? and will all riders that fall off on the straights get their foot rests caught in the fence? No. Where do I infer it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I find it crazy that anyone would advocate reintroducing AirFences down the straights after the accidents in the past. It's very dangerous Similar crashes do happen on the bends but most of the speed is scrubbed off and the safety on the bends far outweighs the negatives with high speed crashes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 No. Where do I infer it. your not, but you are using it as an excuse not to have them on the straights, so again what happens if someones foot rest catches the air fence on a bend? do we do away them on the bends as well? I find it crazy that anyone would advocate reintroducing AirFences down the straights after the accidents in the past. It's very dangerous Similar crashes do happen on the bends but most of the speed is scrubbed off and the safety on the bends far outweighs the negatives with high speed crashes. i am not, i am just asking why is it dangerous only on the straights, but not dangerous on the bends, and it cant just be speed, at sheffield they go into the bends at 60 to 70 mph, so if you hit the fence on entry to the corner you are going faster than you would be on the exit, when you start going down the straight. another bquestion would be how many riders were injured because of the air fences on the straights, and how many have been injured because there hasnt been an air fence on the straight? anyone know for sure, ie facts and figures rather than opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 your not, but you are using it as an excuse not to have them on the straights, so again what happens if someones foot rest catches the air fence on a bend? do we do away them on the bends as well? i am not, i am just asking why is it dangerous only on the straights, but not dangerous on the bends, and it cant just be speed, at sheffield they go into the bends at 60 to 70 mph, so if you hit the fence on entry to the corner you are going faster than you would be on the exit, when you start going down the straight. another bquestion would be how many riders were injured because of the air fences on the straights, and how many have been injured because there hasnt been an air fence on the straight? anyone know for sure, ie facts and figures rather than opinions? I might be guilty of stating the obvious but when you go into the bends don't you lean over which moves the footrest away from the fence and then you slide as well which means the back wheel would touch the fence long before anything else? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 If your foot rest or handles bars his the fence on the bend then you're in for it big time anyway. Think about it. You're riding parallel to the fence down the straight. On the bend your bike is perpendicular to the fence so it's going to be your back wheel that hits it. If anything other than your back wheel hits the fence you're already out of control and going to hit the fence anyway. They only had air fences on the straight for a season but Dryml, Hurry and Ermoelnko all got sucked in. I can';t think of a tim a rider has been sucked in on the bend. The closest was Ales Drymls crash at Oxford and by then he was more or less on the straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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