Air Fence Safety Performance - Research?

[Elephantman]

 

 

Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

FFS

 

In this one response you display the total ignorance of the topic you are commenting on! Quit now while you're behind.

 

 

 

It's actually more to do with slowing the speed of impact at a rate that reduces the chances of injury. Soft substances of course tend to do that better than hard surfaces, but you could hit something soft and injure yourselves if it stops you abruptly.

 

Absolutely correct; but the "common sense" brigade don't wish to question or understand anything other than, "Absolutely no one in their right mind could question the safety of a "softer" landing area over a solid one in the event of impact".

 

The level of complacency of those who are arguing that air fences must be safer just because they are softer is quite staggering. What is needed is real research not biased opinion.

[A ORLOV]

It's actually more to do with slowing the speed of impact at a rate that reduces the chances of injury. Soft substances of course tend to do that better than hard surfaces, but you could hit something soft and injure yourselves if it stops you abruptly.

This is why at many car racing circuits they have tyres behind the initial safety barrier that give when hit that then reduce the speed of impact. With ref to solid posts etc behind the airfence they should still be covered as they used to be before the introduction of the air fences.

[oldace]

In this one response you display the total ignorance of the topic you are commenting on! Quit now while you're behind.

 

 

 

Absolutely correct; but the "common sense" brigade don't wish to question or understand anything other than, "Absolutely no one in their right mind could question the safety of a "softer" landing area over a solid one in the event of impact".

 

The level of complacency of those who are arguing that air fences must be safer just because they are softer is quite staggering. What is needed is real research not biased opinion.

 

Are you for real

 

The whole point of an air fence is slow the impact. I know that, you know that, a child of two knows that.

 

If the impact isn't slowed and dispersed elsewhere then it is transferred to the body.

 

Now why are you struggling to understand that

[Elephantman]

 

 

Are you for real

 

The whole point of an air fence is slow the impact. I know that, you know that, a child of two knows that.

 

If the impact isn't slowed and dispersed elsewhere then it is transferred to the body.

 

Now why are you struggling to understand that

 

Why are you struggling to understand that there is no proof that they are any safer than some traditional speedway fences? Or have you a financial interest in flogging them? It is astonishing that people like you do not question the research behind safety products.... to use your abbreviation FFS its staggering!

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

 

Why are you struggling to understand that there is no proof that they are any safer than some traditional speedway fences? Or have you a financial interest in flogging them? It is astonishing that people like you do not question the research behind safety products.... to use your abbreviation FFS its staggering!

yes there is proof every rider that has slammed into all sorts of fences . They are used at some tracks in road racing and they spend millions on testing them. Car racing is total different as cars are fitted with crumple zones into the chassis .bikes dont have that luxury .the research behind these fences is done in the only way you can with racing and thats to test them in real situations. When the airfence first came out the were fitted on the straights aswell but it was found that it sucked the bike into the fence going down the straight but it only happened a couple of times.please explain how that would of been found out without actually being used in a race. Of the 1000s of serious crashes that have happend with the air fence only the lifting of the fence has shown to be at fault and that is being addressed. car manufactures spend millions on car safety and reinacting crashes but after all that money and testing there is still accidents that happen in the real world that they did not and could not see happening because in crashes not two accidents react the same but they learn from . There is no better testing ground than the real world but we have a great product and every rider agrees its a major step forward in safety. After seeing jason garrity's horrific crash at sheffield i believe an airfence inffront of the current fence would of prevented his broken leg. The so called safe fence snapped his front wheel rim in half ,what chance did a bone have Edited October 9, 2013 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Elephantman]

Of the 1000s of serious crashes that have happend with the air fence only the lifting of the fence has shown to be at fault and that is being addressed.

 

Show me the analysis of those 1000's of serious crashes in to air fences and you might have an argument; but I don't believe they have been analysed, recorded or documented in any way. In fact you can't even state that there have been 1000's of serious crashes with the air fence. You are making it up as you go along; which is a shame because you may be right; but I have seen nothing but opinion to say that you are.

 

Opinion without the research to back it up is fairly worthless, particularly when it comes to smatters of safety.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Elephantman

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

 

Show me the analysis of those 1000's of serious crashes in to air fences and you might have an argument; but I don't believe they have been analysed, recorded or documented in any way. In fact that you can even state that there have been 1000's of serious crashes with the air fence. You are making it up as you go along; which is a shame because you may be right; but I have seen nothing but opinion to say that you are.

 

Opinion without the research to back it up is fairly worthless, particularly when it comes to smatters of safety.

i will give you 1 staistic .the fact that i am here today talking to you after my crash at newport was a testiment to the safety of the airfence. Thats one life it saved ,maybe not enough to concince you but it sealed the deal for me

[Elephantman]

i will give you 1 staistic .the fact that i am here today talking to you after my crash at newport was a testiment to the safety of the airfence. Thats one life it saved ,maybe not enough to concince you but it sealed the deal for me

 

I guess I'd be convinced if I'd had your experience.

 

For riding bikes on the road I always recommend Honda's. I'm one hundred per-cent convinced that when I hit the car that pulled out in front of me on a roundabout without the driver looking, it was the fact that I was on a Honda that ensured I did not do too much damage

 

Are you as convinced as I am?

[Ned Kelly 41]

Reading all this from afar in Australia, where airfences are not (yet) compulsory I am aghast that people are trying to claim Sheffield speedway doesn't need an airfence. Mitchell Davey, out of Townsville, QLD, was seriously injured there a couple of months ago when he went head-on into the fence at that track. Would he have "got away with it" next season, with an airfence in place? We don't know, but we do know he's out of speedway for six months minimum without one!

[Jonny the spud]

 

 

I guess I'd be convinced if I'd had your experience.

 

For riding bikes on the road I always recommend Honda's. I'm one hundred per-cent convinced that when I hit the car that pulled out in front of me on a roundabout without the driver looking, it was the fact that I was on a Honda that ensured I did not do too much damage

 

Are you as convinced as I am?

 

But how many times did you crash that Honda ?

 

Can you call on many like minded friends ( who's job it was to ride Hondas ) to give you their opinions in the same type of crash ?

 

We're there any witnesses to this honda crash who can back up your opinion of the story ? ( maybe one of them could be an official who's seen many honda crashes )

 

How many more pages are you gonna bang on about " in depth well researched studies " in what is to all extent a ten pound sport and make yourself look foolish rather than accept the opinion of professional racers who's opinions and experiences are about as close as you're gonna get to the study you so desperately want ?

 

Just go to the pits at any meeting and ask the riders if they think it's a good thing or not. Or maybe pay to have the study done yourself as you're so desperate to see one in print

[Long Eye]

I guess I'd be convinced if I'd had your experience.

 

For riding bikes on the road I always recommend Honda's. I'm one hundred per-cent convinced that when I hit the car that pulled out in front of me on a roundabout without the driver looking, it was the fact that I was on a Honda that ensured I did not do too much damage

 

Are you as convinced as I am?

 

FFS are you retarded?

[The Doctor...]

How many more pages are you gonna bang on about " in depth well researched studies " in what is to all extent a ten pound sport and make yourself look foolish rather than accept the opinion of professional racers who's opinions and experiences are about as close as you're gonna get to the study you so desperately want ?

 

Just go to the pits at any meeting and ask the riders if they think it's a good thing or not. Or maybe pay to have the study done yourself as you're so desperate to see one in print

 

Hallelujah

 

How on earth this thread is even still going now, maybe 5 weeks after whatever his name started it is, is beyond me

 

He said at the beginning that he had some time on his hands which started this whole quest - i suggest that if he still has such time at his disposal, maybe a local charity shop or community centre would benefit rather than bleating on here.

[Elephantman]

So none of you are that bothered that perfectly safe wire mesh fences that have protected riders from serious injury for decades (e.g. like Wimbledon, Rye House)are to be replaced by something that is not proven to be better and that have clearly been a factor in some riders serious injuries. It appears to me many of the most serious accidents don't happen on the bends they happen on the straights; I don't believe anyone is addressing this issue?

 

The problem many have you have got is when the simple question is asked you have no answer except your bigoted opinion. Is it any wonder that the media and general public don't take speedway seriously when the people who earn a living out of the sport don't take issues such as research and safety seriously. As has happened for decades in the sport some people are more interested in making a fast buck out of speedway and the current fashion seems to be Air or Poly Foam Fences.

 

What they are doing is providing a sop to make everyone believe that speedway takes safety seriously. A "£10 sport" won't pay to have things tested properly to prove they are better than current installations, but are forcing clubs to spend £1,000's for something that they do not know with any certainty will improve safety at their circuit. Other sports force the manufacturers to prove the safety of their products and the manufacturers pay to have them accredited for use.

 

What does speedway do ...... b*gg*r all! And many of you are happy with that situation I think it is a disgrace.

 

That is the issue that I have; plain old fashioned ignorance and lemming like behaviour.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Elephantman

[oldace]

.

 

FFS are you retarded?

 

Do you really need to ask!

 

So none of you are that bothered that perfectly safe wire mesh fences that have protected riders from serious injury for decades (e.g. like Wimbledon, Rye House)are to be replaced by something that is not proven to be better and that have clearly been a factor in some riders serious injuries. It appears to me many of the most serious accidents don't happen on the bends they happen on the straights; I don't believe anyone is addressing this issue?

 

The problem many have you have got is when the simple question is asked you have no answer except your bigoted opinion. Is it any wonder that the media and general public don't take speedway seriously when the people who earn a living out of the sport don't take issues such as research and safety seriously. As has happened for decades in the sport some people are more interested in making a fast buck out of speedway and the current fashion seems to be Air or Poly Foam Fences.

 

What they are doing is providing a sop to make everyone believe that speedway takes safety seriously. A "£10 sport" won't pay to have things tested properly to prove they are better than current installations, but are forcing clubs to spend £1,000's for something that they do not know with any certainty will improve safety at their circuit. Other sports force the manufacturers to prove the safety of their products and the manufacturers pay to have them accredited for use.

 

What does speedway do ...... b*gg*r all! And many of you are happy with that situation I think it is a disgrace.

 

That is the issue that I have; plain old fashioned ignorance and lemming like behaviour.

 

Have you considered medical help.

 

Maybe you are already writing all this from your padded cell

 

Whichever all you are doing is making yourself seem more stupid, to the point of retarded, with every post

Edited October 10, 2013 by Oldace

[Elephantman]

.

 

 

 

Do you really need to ask!

 

 

 

Have you considered medical help.

 

Maybe you are already writing all this from your padded cell

 

Whichever all you are doing is making yourself seem more stupid, to the point of retarded, with every post

 

I consider it a badge of honour that people of such limited scope should consider me retarded. I started this thread to get a bit of light reading just out of interest but with every response from the likes of you and with no evidence from the industry what have we discovered:

 

1. Air Fences have not been tested in any meaningful way prior to deployment at speedway stadia

2. Air Fences are not an FIM requirement unless you are running an FIM event

3. Poorly designed or incorrectly installed Air Fences have caused serious injury to a number of riders

4. Most serious injuries in speedway happen where the rider falls at the fastest point i.e. down the straight; air fences do not address this

5. Perfectly adequate safety fences are to be replaced at a huge cost on no evidence that they will improve safety

6. Speedway has not got a licencing and accreditation process that forces those who are making profit from the sport to pay for and demonstrate that their products improve safety over and above current technologies.

 

and most worrying of all

 

7. A forum wishes to supress debate and questioning of the subject!

 

And they call me a retard?

 

British Speedway is been had over here and just because you don't like my questions and conclusions means nothing; some of you have displayed your ignorance by the fact you cannot answer with facts only with abuse.

 

When starting this thread I wasn't digging for anything but the responses seem to show that somebody should be digging and I've got a feeling the more you dig the smellier it will get.

 

Change the C in your moniker to an RS and you'll be getting there.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Elephantman

[Long Eye]

I consider it a badge of honour that people of such limited scope should consider me retarded. I started this thread to get a bit of light reading just out of interest but with every response from the likes of you and with no evidence from the industry what have we discovered:

 

1. Air Fences have not been tested in any meaningful way prior to deployment at speedway stadia

2. Air Fences are not an FIM requirement unless you are running an FIM event

3. Poorly designed or incorrectly installed Air Fences have caused serious injury to a number of riders

4. Most serious injuries in speedway happen where the rider falls at the fastest point i.e. down the straight; air fences do not address this

5. Perfectly adequate safety fences are to be replaced at a huge cost on no evidence that they will improve safety

6. Speedway has not got a licencing and accreditation process that forces those who are making profit from the sport to pay for and demonstrate that their products improve safety over and above current technologies.

 

and most worrying of all

 

7. A forum wishes to supress debate and questioning of the subject!

 

And they call me a retard?

 

British Speedway is been had over here and just because you don't like my questions and conclusions means nothing; some of you have displayed your ignorance by the fact you cannot answer with facts only with abuse.

 

When starting this thread I wasn't digging for anything but the responses seem to show that somebody should be digging and I've got a feeling the more you dig the smellier it will get.

 

Change the C in your moniker to an RS and you'll be getting there.

 

You're the one who aggressively replied to other posters defending the use of air fences/ foam barriers. The DeanMachine even gave you a direct example of a crash he was involved in, which I witnessed and YOU replied with a sarcastic post. The original question you asked is a valid one.

[Elephantman]

 

 

You're the one who aggressively replied to other posters defending the use of air fences/ foam barriers. The DeanMachine even gave you a direct example of a crash he was involved in, which I witnessed and YOU replied with a sarcastic post. The original question you asked is a valid one.

 

Point me to the sarcastic post? All I've done is ask very simple basic questions; if you see that as sarcastic then it is you that have a problem.

 

I am not questioning the Deanmachine's right to hold the view he does; I'm questioning if that view is right for all situations. There is no evidence that it is.

 

Now there is an argument that one life saved is worth the cost of these fences; however if the result is that many other riders suffer serious life changing injury then the decision becomes a trade off between what on balance is best. This is where evidence is required from testing and research. This evidence is clearly not available.

 

So that begs the question why is this technology being forced on British Speedway when there is no evidence that it is better than some of the current solutions? By the way I'm not suggesting that a brick wall is better without an air fence in front of it; it clearly isn't. But many of the traditional fences that collapse around a rider when they hit it have got to be better than an air/polyfoam fence with an Armco barrier or solid wall behind it!

[John Leslie]

3. Poorly designed or incorrectly installed Air Fences have caused serious injury to a number of riders

Where's your evidence to support this claim? Have double blind tests been done? Have you got the statistics to show where tests have been done with correctly and incorrectly installed fences? What is the exact definition of a "poorly designed air fence"? How does it compare to a "well designed air-fence" in technical spec?

4. Most serious injuries in speedway happen where the rider falls at the fastest point i.e. down the straight; air fences do not address this

Really???? My experience says that the worst injuries occur on the bends. Please share the empirical evidence that says I'm wrong.

[Elephantman]

 

Where's your evidence to support this claim? Have double blind tests been done? Have you got the statistics to show where tests have been done with correctly and incorrectly installed fences? What is the exact definition of a "poorly designed air fence"? How does it compare to a "well designed air-fence" in technical spec?

 

Taken from earlier comments on this thread by a number of posters. You have read all the posts have you? If you have you will know that there are no statistics available only opinion and hearsay which is exactly my point.

 

 

Really???? My experience says that the worst injuries occur on the bends. Please share the empirical evidence that says I'm wrong.

 

You show me your evidence and I won't show you mine; but if you really want to be so distasteful as to run down a list of riders who have suffered life changing injuries that's up to you.

[John Leslie]

if you really want to be so distasteful as to run down a list of riders who have suffered life changing injuries that's up to you.

Go for it. We shouldn't be squeamish about such things if it could save lives in future. If you have compiled empirical data to show that more life changing accidents occur on the straights, as you claim, then you should show it...Lives are at stake here!

(on the other hand you could just be making it up, to be argumentative because you stupidly want to ignore the view of someone who has slammed into various kinds of fence and knows which gave him the best protection)

 

p.s. I don't think it's very nice of the people who have called you retarded, I would never call you retarded without medical evidence.....but I think urgent tests should be done.