Guest Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Where else in the world are Air Fences in use? The only reference that I can find is in California but not anywhere else outside Europe - and just how widespread are they across Europe - it applies to all I suppose from minnows like France, Belgium and Holland to the giants Poland, Sweden, Denmark and Russia? While I agree that safety fences must be top class in regard to when riders lose control, the real concept is that they are there to protect the public when that happens. To stop a rider going out of control and into the spectators not basically as a protection for riders, And so far as the UK is concerned that's something I'm certain "Elf 'n Safety are probably watching carefully. They could well soon move in and insist what types of safety fence surround tracks irrespective of what the FIM and the sport's administrators want. Edited October 5, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Where else in the world are Air Fences in use? The only reference that I can find is in California but not anywhere else outside Europe - and just how widespread are they across Europe - it applies to all I suppose from minnows like France, Belgium and Holland to the giants Poland, Sweden, Denmark and Russia? While I agree that safety fences must be top class in regard to when riders lose control, the real concept is that they are there to protect the public when that happens. To stop a rider going out of control and into the spectators not basically as a protection for riders, And so far as the UK is concerned that's something I'm certain "Elf 'n Safety are probably watching carefully. They could well soon move in and insist what types of safety fence surround tracks irrespective of what the FIM and the sport's administrators want. If 'Elf 'n Safety move in, and get their way - they will probably shut the Sport down altogether. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crescent girl Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Has anyone actually seen a directive from the FIM that air or foam fences should be compulsory for non-FIM meetings in 2014? The 2013 edition of FIM Standards for Track Racing Circuits was updated (prior to May 14th, 2013) to include a regulation that "at all Speedway meetings the use of an FIM homologated APD is compulsory" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 The 2013 edition of FIM Standards for Track Racing Circuits was updated (prior to May 14th, 2013) to include a regulation that "at all Speedway meetings the use of an FIM homologated APD is compulsory" HERE'S THE RULE page, rule 079.4 and it says "at all FIM speedway and longtrack". On page 3 it says all changes by 1st January 2013 in bold. So please, can you link the rule you are quoting! Because like I've already said, if your rule is real, that would finish speedway in Finland on the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 The 2013 edition of FIM Standards for Track Racing Circuits was updated (prior to May 14th, 2013) to include a regulation that "at all Speedway meetings the use of an FIM homologated APD is compulsory" HERE'S THE RULE page, rule 079.4 and it says "at all FIM speedway and longtrack". On page 3 it says all changes by 1st January 2013 in bold. So please, can you link the rule you are quoting! Because like I've already said, if your rule is real, that would finish speedway in Finland on the spot. No. These are the FIM Standards that apply to those tracks wanting an FIM TRACK RACING LICENCE only. Not the regulations that apply to all other Speedway tracks in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 No. These are the FIM Standards that apply to those tracks wanting an FIM TRACK RACING LICENCE only. Not the regulations that apply to all other Speedway tracks in the world. Indeed. Thats why IMO there's no FIM demand to have APD's in Premier league next season. Still they have been gathering money all season saying it's an FIM demand passed on by BSPA/ACU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Indeed. Thats why IMO there's no FIM demand to have APD's in Premier league next season. Still they have been gathering money all season saying it's an FIM demand passed on by BSPA/ACU. Then it's time the matter got sorted out. And, if that's the case, it must also apply to the National League? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Indeed. Thats why IMO there's no FIM demand to have APD's in Premier league next season. Still they have been gathering money all season saying it's an FIM demand passed on by BSPA/ACU. So if there has been no FIM demand yet clubs are collecting donations/fundraising on the back of a statement that there is an FIM requirement that is tantamount to a fraud is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) So if there has been no FIM demand yet clubs are collecting donations/fundraising on the back of a statement that there is an FIM requirement that is tantamount to a fraud is it not? I don't know the legality in regard to an allegation of fraud but certainly it does look as though the original guidelines in regard to air fences were not specific in regard to what the requirements for them were? That may be a matter needing further comment from the powers-that-be in speedway. Edited October 7, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 It dosent matter what the FIM or prince charles for that matter say .we are talking about a safety issue that is not about money making or whatever .the air /polyfoam fence is an absolute must at every track. yes the way its fitted down needs looking at but the fence itself it a total yes ,no buts. It needs to be installed everywhere 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 It dosent matter what the FIM or prince charles for that matter say .we are talking about a safety issue that is not about money making or whatever .the air /polyfoam fence is an absolute must at every track. yes the way its fitted down needs looking at but the fence itself it a total yes ,no buts. It needs to be installed everywhere What extra protection do Air Fences aka safety fences provide for those they are meant for - the spectators? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 It dosent matter what the FIM or prince charles for that matter say .we are talking about a safety issue that is not about money making or whatever .the air /polyfoam fence is an absolute must at every track. yes the way its fitted down needs looking at but the fence itself it a total yes ,no buts. It needs to be installed everywhere Then I go back to my original theme which is where is the independent scientific proof that air/polyfoam fences are safer then other alternatives? If there isn't any then someone is selling the sport a pup. All the comments I have read so far about the benefits of these fences have been subjective opinion; not hard objective facts. When you base your decisions on opinions and not facts the first to get their opinion heard usually wins; I'm suggesting this should not be the case when it comes to safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Then I go back to my original theme which is where is the independent scientific proof that air/polyfoam fences are safer then other alternatives? If there isn't any then someone is selling the sport a pup. All the comments I have read so far about the benefits of these fences have been subjective opinion; not hard objective facts. When you base your decisions on opinions and not facts the first to get their opinion heard usually wins; I'm suggesting this should not be the case when it comes to safety. every rider that has hit one full on including myself is proof enough .i have spent a few times in hospital when ive hit other fences .the worst crash i ever had was at newport with an air fence which i broke my helmet but apart from some aches and pains i was relativly ok .when we did the SRA meetings every rider bar none wanted an air fence and i dont think that will ever change. The fitting is an issue that needs to be looked at but the air/foam fence is a must. If want scientific proof the get a bouncy castle on one side of your garden and the normal garden fence on the other then borrow a motorbike and ride full speed into each one in turn and see for yourself which one is best Edited October 7, 2013 by THE DEAN MACHINE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 every rider that has hit one full on including myself is proof enough .i have spent a few times in hospital when ive hit other fences .the worst crash i ever had was at newport with an air fence which i broke my helmet but apart from some aches and pains i was relativly ok .when we did the SRA meetings every rider bar none wanted an air fence and i dont think that will ever change. The fitting is an issue that needs to be looked at but the air/foam fence is a must. If want scientific proof the get a bouncy castle on one side of your garden and the normal garden fence on the other then borrow a motorbike and ride full speed into each one in turn and see for yourself which one is best You undermine the validity of your opinion by rather crassly comparing and equating the results of scientific research to messing about with a bouncy castle and garden fence. If you don't have any objective factual evidence then your opinion is no better than mine. It seems odd that your worst ever accident involved an air bag and your helmet broke; I'd be asking why? How many helmets have been broken on impact with an air bag in comparison with other types of safety fence might just be a good question to pose? Is it more likely a helmet will break due to the different forces applied when a wearer hits the air bag compared to other types of fencing may be another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 It dosent matter what the FIM or prince charles for that matter say .we are talking about a safety issue that is not about money making or whatever .the air /polyfoam fence is an absolute must at every track. yes the way its fitted down needs looking at but the fence itself it a total yes ,no buts. It needs to be installed everywhere every rider that has hit one full on including myself is proof enough .i have spent a few times in hospital when ive hit other fences .the worst crash i ever had was at newport with an air fence which i broke my helmet but apart from some aches and pains i was relativly ok .when we did the SRA meetings every rider bar none wanted an air fence and i dont think that will ever change. The fitting is an issue that needs to be looked at but the air/foam fence is a must. If want scientific proof the get a bouncy castle on one side of your garden and the normal garden fence on the other then borrow a motorbike and ride full speed into each one in turn and see for yourself which one is best VERY well put Sir. There should be NO compromise on Rider Safety. The Sport is very dangerous and anything that can reasonably reduce the chances of serious injury to Riders, or for that matter Spectators should be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) You undermine the validity of your opinion by rather crassly comparing and equating the results of scientific research to messing about with a bouncy castle and garden fence. If you don't have any objective factual evidence then your opinion is no better than mine. It seems odd that your worst ever accident involved an air bag and your helmet broke; I'd be asking why? How many helmets have been broken on impact with an air bag in comparison with other types of safety fence might just be a good question to pose? Is it more likely a helmet will break due to the different forces applied when a wearer hits the air bag compared to other types of fencing may be another? i used the bouncy castle /garden fence because thats what the 2 types of fence really are and my helmet broke because i hit the airfence so hard i actually hit the fence behind behind it aswell and thats what broke my helmet. Without that airfence infront things would of been a lot worse. My avtar pic is the crash . Yes it is my opinion but it is also the opinion of all the riders although they all agree the fixing down of the air fence needs looking at and any safety board anywhere in the world would be of the same opinion as the riders .air fences are also used in road racing aswell now Edited October 7, 2013 by THE DEAN MACHINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 VERY well put Sir. There should be NO compromise on Rider Safety. The Sport is very dangerous and anything that can reasonably reduce the chances of serious injury to Riders, or for that matter Spectators should be considered. VERY well put Sir. There should be NO compromise on Rider Safety. The Sport is very dangerous and anything that can reasonably reduce the chances of serious injury to Riders, or for that matter Spectators should be considered. Except you do not know and cannot be certain that these fences improve safety; you just think they do based on subjective evidence. That is why the facts need to be established because there should be no compromise on rider safety; including allowing the manufacturers of air fences to avoid conducting scientifically valid research to prove their efficacy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Except you do not know and cannot be certain that these fences improve safety; you just think they do based on subjective evidence. That is why the facts need to be established because there should be no compromise on rider safety; including allowing the manufacturers of air fences to avoid conducting scientifically valid research to prove their efficacy! are you sure your not a promoter?. Well the air fence saved my life so thats proof enough for me and i dont think you would need to go far to find other riders who agree but the fact is they are going to be installed at every track and although ive retired now its a fact im really happy about Edited October 7, 2013 by THE DEAN MACHINE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 are you sure your not a promoter?. Well the air fence saved my life so thats proof enough for me and i dont think you would need to go far to find other riders who agree but the fact is they are going to be installed at every track and although ive retired now its a fact im really happy about The majority once believed the world was flat; they were wrong! I don't know if you and your fellow riders are wrong or right and actually should I really be that worried it will not ruin my day either way. However if in 10 years time the empirical evidence shows that there are more serious injuries than in the last ten years where do you go from there? A good idea need to have proof that it is a good idea particularly where safety is concerned; I still cannot find any proof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reliant Robin Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 The majority once believed the world was flat; they were wrong! I don't know if you and your fellow riders are wrong or right and actually should I really be that worried it will not ruin my day either way. However if in 10 years time the empirical evidence shows that there are more serious injuries than in the last ten years where do you go from there? A good idea need to have proof that it is a good idea particularly where safety is concerned; I still cannot find any proof! If you're actively seeking 'hard objective facts', why not try asking the insurance company responsible for covering Speedway injuries if they have any info that they are able to share. Just because you cannot 'find' proof does not mean that the proof is not there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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