Air Fence Safety Performance - Research?

[Vince]

As I see it there is little room for dispute that at places where they are installed in front of a solid fence air fences are by far the best solution currently available. It can't be more than opinion as no matter how many statistics you compiled every crash is different and the injuries caused in different ways. My guess would be that more injuries are caused by riders hit by bikes than by impact with any type of fence.

 

Where I still see room for debate is where collapsible fences are used. Again it's only my opinion but I still see Rye House as having the best fence I have seen, and hit. It slows you very quickly without stopping you completely. I just cannot see that installing an air fence at Rye will improve rider safety and, again only opinion, I think it very likely it could make it more dangerous.

 

Whatever, there is no absolute right or wrong as the evidence isn't and never will be sufficient to provide the complete answer. Still seems like a reasonable question to me though!

[Blackadder]

I have now seen that the directive to install APDs from 2014 has come from the SCB, not the FIM, and applies to all UK tracks. What is puzzling me now is why this directive was issued by letter and doesn't seem to be available on the SCB website. I am not arguing for or against APDs here, I would just like to know who can decide that established tracks could be forced to close if it wasn't financially and/or logistically possible to have one and why this information does not appear to be in the public domain.

[Elephantman]

 

Go for it. We shouldn't be squeamish about such things if it could save lives in future. If you have compiled empirical data to show that more life changing accidents occur on the straights, as you claim, then you should show it...Lives are at stake here!

(on the other hand you could just be making it up, to be argumentative because you stupidly want to ignore the view of someone who has slammed into various kinds of fence and knows which gave him the best protection)

 

p.s. I don't think it's very nice of the people who have called you retarded, I would never call you retarded without medical evidence.....but I think urgent tests should be done.

 

You are such a wit! I don't need to prove anything it is not me that is forcing what is an expensive and in some cases may be an unnecessary change on British Speedway.

 

This is where people such as you miss the point. If air fences improve safety at a venue then they must be considered; if they provide the same level of safety or reduce the level of safety then they should not be a mandatory requirement. Without evidence and research your guess is as good as mine as to locations where they are or are not an improvement.

 

All tracks are different shapes and sizes; may have different banking; may or may not be suitable for the installation of one type of fence or another. One size does not fit all; why do so many people assume it does when it comes to such a fundamental safety device?

 

I don't mess about with safety I expect it to be properly researched and properly implemented; Air fences appear no to be in this category!

 

 

Whatever, there is no absolute right or wrong as the evidence isn't and never will be sufficient to provide the complete answer. Still seems like a reasonable question to me though!

 

I thought it was a reasonable question but many on here don't want it asked. I don't understand why?

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

 

You are such a wit! I don't need to prove anything it is not me that is forcing what is an expensive and in some cases may be an unnecessary change on British Speedway.

 

This is where people such as you miss the point. If air fences improve safety at a venue then they must be considered; if they provide the same level of safety or reduce the level of safety then they should not be a mandatory requirement. Without evidence and research your guess is as good as mine as to locations where they are or are not an improvement.

 

All tracks are different shapes and sizes; may have different banking; may or may not be suitable for the installation of one type of fence or another. One size does not fit all; why do so many people assume it does when it comes to such a fundamental safety device?

 

I don't mess about with safety I expect it to be properly researched and properly implemented; Air fences appear no to be in this category!

if you do your history you will know a rider lost his life after he bled to death after his crash because his neck was cut on a mesh wire fence. He suffered no other injuries and wasnt even a bad crash . That wouldnt of happend with an airfence although airfences were not around at the time of the crash . Airfences were tested prior to being installed at speedway tracks .rye house may be the best of the mesh fences but put an airfence infront of that and you double the safety of it. You keep saying there has been no testing but there has briggo did loads of tests before they were installed at tracks . The" biased opinion" that i gave you is the same opinion that is shared by all riders .even Chris Holder will tell you they are the best fence but as with his crash the fitting of them needs to be looked at and i believe it has been addressed.

[The Doctor...]

I thought it was a reasonable question but many on here don't want it asked. I don't understand why?

 

The whole subject was reasonable 9 pages ago... but look where this argument is going now - everyone is fed up with it apart from you.

 

You're aiming your ire at the wrong people - as i said to you before, get in touch with scb or even the speedway star. Whining on and on and on is only making you look daft now.

 

If you are serious about this crusade, this pitiful thread is not doing you any favours whatsoever.

[oldace]

if you do your history you will know a rider lost his life after he bled to death after his crash because his neck was cut on a mesh wire fence. He suffered no other injuries and wasnt even a bad crash . That wouldnt of happend with an airfence although airfences were not around at the time of the crash . Airfences were tested prior to being installed at speedway tracks .rye house may be the best of the mesh fences but put an airfence infront of that and you double the safety of it. You keep saying there has been no testing but there has briggo did loads of tests before they were installed at tracks . The" biased opinion" that i gave you is the same opinion that is shared by all riders .even Chris Holder will tell you they are the best fence but as with his crash the fitting of them needs to be looked at and i believe it has been addressed.

 

Are you referring to Tommy Jansson Dean?

[The White Knight]

I don't know a lot about the Statistics - BUT - I would take the word of Riders who have smashed in to ALL types of Fences. THEIR experiences are Testing enough for me.

 

If the Riders Approve them - then they should be provided.

 

We NEED to make our Speedway Tracks as SAFE as possible for the Riders.

 

Someone mentioned hitting Fences on the Straight - that can cause bad crashes too, as can those where Riders hit the Track itself. (Ricky Ashworth/Tomasz Gollob). We can only make the Sport as safe as possible - BUT - sadly Accident/Injury will always happen in Speedway because THAT is the nature of the beast - it is a VERY dangerous Sport.

[oldace]

I don't know a lot about the Statistics - BUT - I would take the word of Riders who have smashed in to ALL types of Fences. THEIR experiences are Testing enough for me.

 

If the Riders Approve them - then they should be provided.

 

 

 

That in itself isn't actually a reason to introduce something Ian.

 

Riders approve of short stroke motors and super light flywheels which are a menace to safety but in pursuit of a few extra revs they will happily run with them.

 

In reality though, despite the elephant guy, it isn't rocket science. Most injuries occur as a result of sudden impact, usually either the track another bike or the fence. The bikes and tracks cant really be addressed but the fence certainly can.

 

A solid fence clearly doesnt absorb a fall at all so the impact is taken by the body. A mesh fence can absorb some impact, collapsible ones even more so but do have a habit of acting like catapults sending riders back onto the track. Coupled with other risks although preferable to a solid fence they are far from perfect

 

A correctly installed (and I know there are issues her) air fence can slow and absord an impact without rebounding the rider back into the circuit.

 

Yes you get the odd bad injury caused by an air fence in the same way you get the odd fatality caused by car air bags but to anyone with an IQ higher than average 2 year old it is a no brainer which is safer

[Elephantman]

but to anyone with an IQ higher than average 2 year old it is a no brainer which is safer

 

No it isn't; you just want it to be; makes life a bit easier if people do not have to justify what they are doing

[Local Boy]

No it isn't; you just want it to be; makes life a bit easier if people do not have to justify what they are doing

 

You really are a bufoon Elephantman; how could you possibly expect some of the BSF membership to be able to get their head around such a simple issue?

[villiers210]

With air fences being made compulsory at ALL tracks in all 3 leagues next year, it's about time that there was some clear cut instruction made on how they should be fixed properly. I lost count last year of the number of riders that went straight underneath the air fence and hit the fence behind. In these cases, the air fence is not a help, it's a hindrance as it prevents medical staff getting access to the injured rider. Chris Holders horrific injuries were caused in this manner. Compulsory air fences is of course a good idea, but only if they are installed correctly. Time for some proper and clear instruction!!

[Tsunami]

I think you will find that some fences, like Newcastle's new fence, have been modified to cope with this problem.

[villiers210]

That's very welcome news, but they should then all be modified to the same standard.

[Tsunami]

That's very welcome news, but they should then all be modified to the same standard.

It is possible with what I have seen.

[teddy2706]

One commodity that speedway has a surfeit of is old tyres. Tyres are a carbon nightmare and speedway is very wasteful with them. Wherever you go at speedway the things are everywhere.

Now, whilst I realise that tyres are nasty when burning, is there no way that tyres could be bagged and stacked in such a way as to a) prevent riders sliding beneath them and present a low fire risk? Tyres were often used in road racing and I for one have been grateful for their protection on several occasions.

[skthecat]

One commodity that speedway has a surfeit of is old tyres. Tyres are a carbon nightmare and speedway is very wasteful with them. Wherever you go at speedway the things are everywhere.

Now, whilst I realise that tyres are nasty when burning, is there no way that tyres could be bagged and stacked in such a way as to a) prevent riders sliding beneath them and present a low fire risk? Tyres were often used in road racing and I for one have been grateful for their protection on several occasions.

[Elephantman]

There was a whole thread on Air Fences; there is no independent testing to prove they are safer than some current alternatives. I'm surprised the pro air fence crew haven't slaughtered you for having the temerity to raise the issue again. They are also not compulsory unless you are running FIM events; that hasn't stopped the some members of the BSPA railroading them through as a compulsory requirement.

[Tsunami]

There was a whole thread on Air Fences; there is no independent testing to prove they are safer than some current alternatives. I'm surprised the pro air fence crew haven't slaughtered you for having the temerity to raise the issue again. They are also not compulsory unless you are running FIM events; that hasn't stopped the some members of the BSPA railroading them through as a compulsory requirement.

So they are compulsory. Thought so.

In the absence of the independent testing data, let's try this. Which would you prefer. Being pushed headfirst into a solid or mesh fence, or an air fence. You decide.(said in a Sunderland accent).

[Vince]

.

In the absence of the independent testing data, let's try this. Which would you prefer. Being pushed headfirst into a solid or mesh fence, or an air fence. You decide.(said in a Sunderland accent).

 

Depends whether the air fence stays there or decides to jump out of the way and reveal some sharp objects pointing in my direction!

[oldace]

So they are compulsory. Thought so.

In the absence of the independent testing data, let's try this. Which would you prefer. Being pushed headfirst into a solid or mesh fence, or an air fence. You decide.(said in a Sunderland accent).

 

 

I think you have just taken us full circle there. That was pretty much my first response to this post three months ago.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!