English Riders Is Two Riders To Many If Made Compulsory.?

[orion]

Well all things have to be considered, speedway is now at a stage where the promoters have to take notice of the fan.Are you telling me if say Poole for (ex) took Ward and Holder off the wage bill they could not take a couple of quid off the admission.Your way of thinking basically the like it or lump scenario has no chance speedway without the sky money would be knackered within a few years.

Poole fans want to watch Top riders and willing to pay the money to watch them they don't want to watch sub standard riders even if the admission is ten pounds .This is the point you miss not everyone wants cheaper speedway to watch a lower standard ..the point about sky is a silly as lot of sports would be knackered without the sky money not just speedway .

[stratton]

 

Poole fans want to watch Top riders and willing to pay the money to watch them they don't want to watch sub standard riders even if the admission is ten pounds .This is the point you miss not everyone wants cheaper speedway to watch a lower standard ..the point about sky is a silly as lot of sports would be knackered without the sky money not just speedway .

So is the PL sub standard in your opinion? Ward or no Ward many more meetings like last nights dross and the sport will be in the mire.

[The White Knight]

Poole fans want to watch Top riders and willing to pay the money to watch them they don't want to watch sub standard riders even if the admission is ten pounds .This is the point you miss not everyone wants cheaper speedway to watch a lower standard ..the point about sky is a silly as lot of sports would be knackered without the sky money not just speedway .

 

If you are right orion - then we are, as you say, knackered. I do not believe for one minute that Speedway will be on SKY next Season.

 

You may therefore be proved right.

 

On the other hand Speedway could look to revitalise itself and find ways to attract in new Punters. It depends which way the Management of the Sport want to go.

[orion]

So is the PL sub standard in your opinion? Ward or no Ward many more meetings like last nights dross and the sport will be in the mire.

Well of course it is the crowds tell you that .

[Tom Turner]

So is the PL sub standard in your opinion? Ward or no Ward many more meetings like last nights dross and the sport will be in the mire.

 

Yes, Premier League is sub standard. If it wasn't then there would be no such thing as an Elite League.

 

This isn't to say that Premier League isn't a wonderful thing for the sport, it's simply that with money being tighter and wages not traveling as far each month consumers have to make a choice whether or not they want to spend their disposable income on speedway. For the fans that do choose to spend their money on speedway they expect a premium product. There is nothing wrong with that consumers expecting more for their money.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Synikalle

[orion]

You are in total cookoo land if you believe that,if say a young Pole can go to his local track seven times a week to practice and also get help on the mechanical side.Has he got just a little bit of an advantage over a young English lad? who is lucky to get one day a week to practice.Grass roots we have some great people who are busting a gut to help the young ones over here but there hands are tied.And if your last sentence is correct why is that outstanding talent Lambert based in Germany.

When did I say that Poles have got an advantage over a brit ? ..giving more time for brits to practice is one of the things I was talking about .that is the sort of thing we should be doing rather than giving them charity and the easy life by giving team places they not earned like you want .Yet again not sure want Lambert being based in Germany has to do with him getting team places in the uk I expect people will be biteing his hand off next year for him to ride for them . Edited September 3, 2013 by orion

[LagutaRacingFan]

No way!

 

What's next? We pick riders on hair colour?

Edited September 3, 2013 by Hougaard Racing Fans

[stratton]

When did I say that Poles have got advantage over a brit ? ..giving more time for brits to practice is one of the things I was talking about .that is the sort of thing we should be doing rather than giving them charity and the easy life by giving team places they not earned like you want .Yet again not sure want Lambert being based in Germany has to do with him getting team places in the uk I expect people will be biteing his hand off next year for him to ride for them .

But they can't though can they? practice with all our health and safety bulls... and stupid curfews speedway has no power in those matters so that is never going to change.

And it was me who said the young Pole has a massive advantage over a English lad.If our lads had the help and practice facilities and were then failing then i would except it Lambert had to go to Germany to improve he was forced to i dont believe he would of got the laps in England.

 

[Mad Potter 2]

Yes, Premier League is sub standard. If it wasn't then there would be no such thing as an Elite League.

 

This isn't to say that Premier League isn't a wonderful thing for the sport, it's simply that with money being tighter and wages not traveling as far each month consumers have to make a choice whether or not they want to spend their disposable income on speedway. For the fans that do choose to spend their money on speedway they expect a premium product. There is nothing wrong with that consumers expecting more for their money.

Yes, Premier League is sub standard. If it wasn't then there would be no such thing as an Elite League.

 

This isn't to say that Premier League isn't a wonderful thing for the sport, it's simply that with money being tighter and wages not traveling as far each month consumers have to make a choice whether or not they want to spend their disposable income on speedway. For the fans that do choose to spend their money on speedway they expect a premium product. There is nothing wrong with that consumers expecting more for their money.

 

But if there wasn’t for 23 riders from the Premier league riders doubling up in the Elite League ( 33%) there be no Elite League.

[Grachan]

I remember the compulsory 2 point British rider that every side had to have back in1986. None of them, as far as I remember, went on to be anything but a poor reserve.

 

I may be wrong though. Can anyone name all the 2 pointers from that year.

[Guest]

If there was a new league do people believe it should be made compulsory to have at least two Englishmen in the side.? I believe now is the time to push this through cutting down on costs and giving our lads more prolonged chances.Are we in law aloud to insist on this? i don't know the answer to that question but say if they're was a 16 or 18 team league is insisting on two Englishmen to many.?The only concern i would have is would we have a few to many out of they're depth or maybe without the GP stars the gap in class would not be that noticeable any thoughts.!

 

I am fairly certain that any efforts to restrict riders from EU countries is against the law. But no reason why restrictions should not be placed on riders from non-EU countries/ At least, that's my assesment of employment law as it currently stands.

[SCB]

I remember the compulsory 2 point British rider that every side had to have back in1986. None of them, as far as I remember, went on to be anything but a poor reserve.

 

I may be wrong though. Can anyone name all the 2 pointers from that year.

Which is why it needs to be phased in and shouldn'y initially be young/in reserve. That comes with time. If clubs know that in 3 or 4 season time they have to have a Brit or two in reserve it gives them a chance to work with some of the kids and make it happen. It may encourage more NL level racing or whatever. Most will fail, you can't polish a turd and all that but if you have 70 riders you have more chance of striking gold than if you have 14. Edited September 4, 2013 by SCB

[oldace]

Poole fans want to watch Top riders and willing to pay the money to watch them they don't want to watch sub standard riders even if the admission is ten pounds .This is the point you miss not everyone wants cheaper speedway to watch a lower standard ..the point about sky is a silly as lot of sports would be knackered without the sky money not just speedway .

 

Hence Man Utd get 70,000 crowds plus at upwards of £50.00 a ticket and Sunday League football gets a few dozen at FOC tickets. If Sidney was correct it would be the other way round

[jenga]

man u may get 70.000 in, but they are still in debt.. mr bale is on 36 pound a minute..money well spent. nice deal spurs, money in the bank. sold 1 , get 5 free. sorry off topic.

Edited September 4, 2013 by jenga

[oldace]

man u may get 70.000 in, but they are still in debt.. mr bale is on 36 pound a minute..money well spent. nice deal spurs, money in the bank. sold 1 , get 5 free. sorry off topic.

 

Oh right, well that blows my point right out of the water then!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[waiheke1]

man u may get 70.000 in, but they are still in debt.. mr bale is on 36 pound a minute..money well spent. nice deal spurs, money in the bank. sold 1 , get 5 free. sorry off topic.

surely Mr bale is on double that at least? Surely can't work more than 50 hours a week?

 

I remember the compulsory 2 point British rider that every side had to have back in1986. None of them, as far as I remember, went on to be anything but a poor reserve.

 

I may be wrong though. Can anyone name all the 2 pointers from that year.

Andy Phillips at wolves went on to make a British final and possibly even an England cap. being biased but i thought declan eccles was the pick of the bunch, think he averaged about 4.5 that season, but also suffered major injuries - he was pretty wild- and don't think he rode speedway again.

Barry ayres was the other aces rider, whittakrr and graves at Bedford, surname and de'ath? at oxford, fry and leaver at ch, cobby and Phillips at wolves, that's about all i can do off the top of my head.

Your point is proved though, those good enough got their chances anyway outside of this system (likes of cross cox havrlock smith dugard thorp etc. either jumping straight into bl or doing nl first.

Edited September 4, 2013 by waihekeaces1

[Grachan]

 

Andy Phillips at wolves went on to make a British final and possibly even an England cap. being biased but i thought declan eccles was the pick of the bunch, think he averaged about 4.5 that season, but also suffered major injuries - he was pretty wild- and don't think he rode speedway again.

Barry ayres was the other aces rider, whittakrr and graves at Bedford, surname and de'ath? at oxford, fry and leaver at ch, cobby and Phillips at wolves, that's about all i can do off the top of my head.

Your point is proved though, those good enough got their chances anyway outside of this system (likes of cross cox havrlock smith dugard thorp etc. either jumping straight into bl or doing nl first.

 

It was Rob Fortune at Swindon. They had to loan their 2 pointer from Peterborough because they couldn't find one of their own - and there were a lot more British riders around then! John Surnam at Oxford. I think they signed De'Ath from Long Eaton? He wasn't their 2 pointer.

[stratton]

 

surely Mr bale is on double that at least? Surely can't work more than 50 hours a week?

 

 

Andy Phillips at wolves went on to make a British final and possibly even an England cap. being biased but i thought declan eccles was the pick of the bunch, think he averaged about 4.5 that season, but also suffered major injuries - he was pretty wild- and don't think he rode speedway again.

Barry ayres was the other aces rider, whittakrr and graves at Bedford, surname and de'ath? at oxford, fry and leaver at ch, cobby and Phillips at wolves, that's about all i can do off the top of my head.

Your point is proved though, those good enough got their chances anyway outside of this system (likes of cross cox havrlock smith dugard thorp etc. either jumping straight into bl or doing nl first.

But you would have to say Aces1 though from 1970 until say 88? they're were loads more top class / very good English riders/ and second strings available.Now the numbers are very low in comparison i think as SCB said start at one at first and even those riders would have to have the right criteria.If the league are missing the likes of Ward(ect) it makes it even lesser of a problem as the huge gulf gap in class will be bridged as we all know the EL is a badly watered down product now.

[waiheke1]

 

 

It was Rob Fortune at Swindon. They had to loan their 2 pointer from Peterborough because they couldn't find one of their own - and there were a lot more British riders around then! John Surnam at Oxford. I think they signed De'Ath from Long Eaton? He wasn't their 2 pointer.

yeah i didn't think de ath was a two pointer. but the team was nielsen wigg cox grahame sorensen de ath and surnam Im 99% sure. and i thought they had to have two? also that season they brought in the minimum three ride rule which essentially meant u couldn't use tac subs to replace reserves (well u could, but then u had to bring them in for an extra ride later)

 

But you would have to say Aces1 though from 1970 until say 88? they're were loads more top class / very good English riders/ and second strings available.Now the numbers are very low in comparison i think as SCB said start at one at first and even those riders would have to have the right criteria.If the league are missing the likes of Ward(ect) it makes it even lesser of a problem as the huge gulf gap in class will be bridged as we all know the EL is a badly watered down product now.

clearly they need to do something and i agree with scbs proposal.

Imho if they get rid of ward etc. it will be a huge blow to speedway in Britain.

What probably needs to be done is more investment not less - if the sport is to.progress it needs to increase crowds to do that it needs a more attractive product. in fact, the only way prices are going to be able to be reduced to.more attractive levels is to get a marked increase in attendance. given that s significant proportion of costs are relatively fixed (track prep, stadium lease and other overheads, number of points to be paid per meeting etc) any cost savings by getting rid of top riders will be more than offset by decreased gates. and even if you can shave a quid or two off the price - doing do is unlikely to generate more revenue via extra sales than is lost by the price drop (if two quid is a 12%price decrease, are you going to get an extra 150 fans at a track with s crowd of 1500 - i doubt it).

[stratton]

 

yeah i didn't think de ath was a two pointer. but the team was nielsen wigg cox grahame sorensen de ath and surnam Im 99% sure. and i thought they had to have two? also that season they brought in the minimum three ride rule which essentially meant u couldn't use tac subs to replace reserves (well u could, but then u had to bring them in for an extra ride later)

 

 

clearly they need to do something and i agree with scbs proposal.

Imho if they get rid of ward etc. it will be a huge blow to speedway in Britain.

What probably needs to be done is more investment not less - if the sport is to.progress it needs to increase crowds to do that it needs a more attractive product. in fact, the only way prices are going to be able to be reduced to.more attractive levels is to get a marked increase in attendance. given that s significant proportion of costs are relatively fixed (track prep, stadium lease and other overheads, number of points to be paid per meeting etc) any cost savings by getting rid of top riders will be more than offset by decreased gates. and even if you can shave a quid or two off the price - doing do is unlikely to generate more revenue via extra sales than is lost by the price drop (if two quid is a 12%price decrease, are you going to get an extra 150 fans at a track with s crowd of 1500 - i doubt it).

When you put it like that Aces1 it looks pretty dismal,i am not that bothered what happens really staying the same or one big league.The quality in numbers of top class riders are long gone 30 years ago Ward would of been just a name in amongst endless other top class riders. Of course it is a treat to see someone of that ability now and of course we would all miss him but if sky pulls out something has to give.