Tactical Rides

[Mad Potter 2]

You’ve just had another meeting tonight to show what a crap rule it is. 10 points up and 2 race later you are losing.

[waiheke1]

 

 

I don't disagree with you, indeed I would have thought it was safer as most speedway crashes are in the first turn when 4 riders hit the bend together.

 

Fact remains though, some riders wouldn't take them. Jason Crump to name one.

in Barry briggs bio he talks about the days when "the big five" had to go off handicapped starts. he said peter craven hated it, the dangers of having to risk your neck fighting through the field every race. briggs himself hated the additional wear and tear on machinery and i believe they demanded extra points money tks compensate.

[BWitcher]

 

in Barry briggs bio he talks about the days when "the big five" had to go off handicapped starts. he said peter craven hated it, the dangers of having to risk your neck fighting through the field every race. briggs himself hated the additional wear and tear on machinery and i believe they demanded extra points money tks compensate.

 

It can't be so though.. some tell us the riders ride for our entertainment!

 

You’ve just had another meeting tonight to show what a crap rule it is. 10 points up and 2 race later you are losing.

 

Ah you're referring to a meeting that finished 53-40.. fair enough, take of the 3pts from the tac ride. 50-40.

 

Same result, 3 pts to Kings Lynn.

 

The old system, although most us prefer it as we grew up with it was so much unfairer. Lets say you are riding a team with a big top 2. You gradually extend your lead until you get to Heat 13 and you are 8-10 pts up. Current system you fancy your chances, as even allowing for 2 5-1's again in 13 and 15, you're stronger in heat 14. Not so in the old system... a 4-2 or 5-1 (depending if they away team was 8 or 10 down as they would ensure they are 6 down going into heat 14) in 13.. a double tac sub in heat 14, a race the home team on paper were going to gain an advantage in.. suddenly its a 5-1 to the away team.. then the same pairing come out again to finish the job in heat 15.

 

Top heavy teams were far far more favoured under the old system.

[E I Addio]

 

in Barry briggs bio he talks about the days when "the big five" had to go off handicapped starts. he said peter craven hated it, the dangers of having to risk your neck fighting through the field every race. briggs himself hated the additional wear and tear on machinery and i believe they demanded extra points money tks compensate.

 

In the days you are talking about the old National League as the top league was called only had about 8 teams and there was such a wide bracket of abilities the "big five" were so much better than the rest they were still on 10 and 11 point averages so if they had gone off the gate with the rest the races would have mostly been over by the first bend. I think I am also correct in saying that back then the reserves would go off scratch and the normal team men started 5 or 10 yards behind. Anyway from the formation of the British League in 1965 it seems that everyone went off the gate until the golden Double was introduced.

[moxey63]

So you want to lower the quality even further. We've seen the success of that business model over the last 5 or 6 years in the Elite League.

 

I am living in the real world. If you want a repeat of the main-course within a few minutes of gulping down the first, you have got to be able to afford it. Perhaps seeing a repeat of Heat 13 two races later is exciting for some, but it cuts down the anticipation of the big finale. Less is more.

I read Swindon's plight in last week's Speedway Star, certain riders turning up with just one bike. My heart bleeds. Maybe the need to have a bike for each race, a helmet with each colour and expensive tool boxes they don't need, perhaps that's why speedway is relying on SKY's payday loan to help bail out tracks mid-season.

Something is wrong, surely, when the men who a risking their necks aren't being rewarded.

Cuts need to be made. If some will say the value is being cut and will stop attending, they should stop nagging ex-fans for no longer attending because they have already seen the future.

[E I Addio]

 

 

As for dumping the TR in play-off's, shall we also dump home track advantages and have all the meetings at neutral venues? Dumping the TR's will play right into the hands of the teams with the biggest home track advantages.

 

At the moment they play into the hands of the team with the best top two. Clubs like Poole, and Wolves can put the likes of Lindgren, Woffinden, Ward and Hancock out before heat 12 then have them again in heats 13 and 15 when points can really be made up.

 

As for home track advantage, the home side also has to contend with an away track disadvantage. Its like cricket, the grounds men prepare the wicket to suit the home bowlers, and any track curator worth his salt prepares the track the way the home riders like it. Good batsmen, like good speedway riders deal with all conditions and those teams in both sports that can adjust to the biggest variety of conditions are the ones that win things.

 

I am living in the real world. If you want a repeat of the main-course within a few minutes of gulping down the first, you have got to be able to afford it. Perhaps seeing a repeat of Heat 13 two races later is exciting for some, but it cuts down the anticipation of the big finale. Less is more.

 

I totally disagree. If you are living in the real world I am not sure what world I am living in but it really doesn't matter. I am a big fan of Freddie Lindgren and I had one chance of seeing him at Lakeside this year and if he was out in heats 13 and 15 its alright by me. The fact that he won heat 13 and got beat in Heat 15 makes it even better. Those are great memories that I will reflect upon in the winter.

And no, I never ever tire of seeing Peter Karlsson out in the big heats. Great sportsmen are never boring. Not to me anyway.

[moxey63]

At the moment they play into the hands of the team with the best top two. Clubs like Poole, and Wolves can put the likes of Lindgren, Woffinden, Ward and Hancock out before heat 12 then have them again in heats 13 and 15 when points can really be made up.

 

As for home track advantage, the home side also has to contend with an away track disadvantage. Its like cricket, the grounds men prepare the wicket to suit the home bowlers, and any track curator worth his salt prepares the track the way the home riders like it. Good batsmen, like good speedway riders deal with all conditions and those teams in both sports that can adjust to the biggest variety of conditions are the ones that win things.

 

 

 

I totally disagree. If you are living in the real world I am not sure what world I am living in but it really doesn't matter. I am a big fan of Freddie Lindgren and I had one chance of seeing him at Lakeside this year and if he was out in heats 13 and 15 its alright by me. The fact that he won heat 13 and got beat in Heat 15 makes it even better. Those are great memories that I will reflect upon in the winter.

And no, I never ever tire of seeing Peter Karlsson out in the big heats. Great sportsmen are never boring. Not to me anyway.

 

Memories are all you'll have as well, the way speedway is going.

[Bavarian]

Wasn't Simon Wigg behind the original idea?

 

Yes, he was behind the idea of double points. Indeed, that's correct. It was Simon Wigg who first suggested this as a way to make meetings more entertaining.

 

He got the idea from riding in a Sunday afternon grass track event in northern Germany, where the organisers came up with this funny idea to combine the racing with the then popular tv show of the spinning wheel of luck (in German: Glücksrad). If I remember correctly, they had a huge spinnign wheel on teh centre green next to teh starting gate. The helmet colours where indicated on the spinning wheel, and the rider, who's colour came up, rode for double points in the next race. They spun the wheel before each race. Don't ask me what the organisers, spectators, and riders thought about it, but it was intended to add the element of luck to the racing. For same strange and unknown reason Simon Wigg thought it was a good idea, and suggested this to someone at the BSPA to try it in British speedway.

 

By the way, the spinning wheel and double points at this particular German grass track event soon went into oblivion, never to be tried again. Everyone thought it was just a joke and not worth keeping. But in the UK, thanks to Mr. Wigg, the double points joker rule was introduced to British speedway and continues to be a pain in the neck for every serious speedway follower to this day.

Oh, those bloody Germans!

[The White Knight]

Yes, he was behind the idea of double points. Indeed, that's correct. It was Simon Wigg who first suggested this as a way to make meetings more entertaining.

 

He got the idea from riding in a Sunday afternon grass track event in northern Germany, where the organisers came up with this funny idea to combine the racing with the then popular tv show of the spinning wheel of luck (in German: Glücksrad). If I remember correctly, they had a huge spinnign wheel on teh centre green next to teh starting gate. The helmet colours where indicated on the spinning wheel, and the rider, who's colour came up, rode for double points in the next race. They spun the wheel before each race. Don't ask me what the organisers, spectators, and riders thought about it, but it was intended to add the element of luck to the racing. For same strange and unknown reason Simon Wigg thought it was a good idea, and suggested this to someone at the BSPA to try it in British speedway.

 

By the way, the spinning wheel and double points at this particular German grass track event soon went into oblivion, never to be tried again. Everyone thought it was just a joke and not worth keeping. But in the UK, thanks to Mr. Wigg, the double points joker rule was introduced to British speedway and continues to be a pain in the neck for every serious speedway follower to this day.

Oh, those bloody Germans!

 

And so it is. :mad:

 

I didn't realise we had Simon Wigg to thank for this. :sad:

Edited September 6, 2013 by The White Knight

[moxey63]

And so it is. :mad:

 

I didn't realise we had Simon Wigg to thank for this. :sad:

 

 

This week gets worst... first Rolf Harris... now news Simon Wigg helped bring about the idea of the GD.

[The White Knight]

This week gets worst... first Rolf Harris... now news Simon Wigg helped bring about the idea of the GD.

 

Exactly.

[Nickster]

 

 

It can't be so though.. some tell us the riders ride for our entertainment!

 

 

 

Ah you're referring to a meeting that finished 53-40.. fair enough, take of the 3pts from the tac ride. 50-40.

 

Same result, 3 pts to Kings Lynn.

 

The old system, although most us prefer it as we grew up with it was so much unfairer. Lets say you are riding a team with a big top 2. You gradually extend your lead until you get to Heat 13 and you are 8-10 pts up. Current system you fancy your chances, as even allowing for 2 5-1's again in 13 and 15, you're stronger in heat 14. Not so in the old system... a 4-2 or 5-1 (depending if they away team was 8 or 10 down as they would ensure they are 6 down going into heat 14) in 13.. a double tac sub in heat 14, a race the home team on paper were going to gain an advantage in.. suddenly its a 5-1 to the away team.. then the same pairing come out again to finish the job in heat 15.

 

Top heavy teams were far far more favoured under the old system.

 

But I think with a tactical ride if you have a number 5 and 7 out of each team and suddenly replace the reserve with your number 1 the 5 1 wouldn't be on more like a 2 4 other team, ( so basically home team gains 6 points other teams lose 3) So basically your dropping your reserve and putting in your heat leader for 6 points. This also puts the momentum back with the side who just got the 8 1. Speedway is the only sport I can think of which rewards you for losing and gives you a chance, surely this just means you have awful reserves and replace them both each meeting with a tactical.

[BWitcher]

 

 

But I think with a tactical ride if you have a number 5 and 7 out of each team and suddenly replace the reserve with your number 1 the 5 1 wouldn't be on more like a 2 4 other team, ( so basically home team gains 6 points other teams lose 3) So basically your dropping your reserve and putting in your heat leader for 6 points. This also puts the momentum back with the side who just got the 8 1. Speedway is the only sport I can think of which rewards you for losing and gives you a chance, surely this just means you have awful reserves and replace them both each meeting with a tactical.

 

Sorry but you have completely lost me, you seem to be merging both the old Tac sub and the current Tac ride together.

[seanmuffe]

This week gets worst... first Rolf Harris... now news Simon Wigg helped bring about the idea of the GD .

.........no need to mock apparently talks are on-going with the authorities & the didgeridoo bod to spice up KOC ties by introducing a Jake Trophy how this quite will work in a two legged Cup Tie is beyond me .........but does it really matter as i'm sure it will fit nicely on the shelf with such classics as there the TR , 2nd Phase, ........sorry good job only a proposed paper otherwise not sure I could have squeezed it in next to Elite League KOC Cup a recent history..........just got me coat