Tactical Rides

[Nickster]

My first post so please be kind, have watched speedway for years and still can't work out the point of a tactical ride. Only sport I know of that you can be losing but then be allowed to get extra points. Last night at swindon they won by 7 and had to get a 3 3 to deny Poole a point, but poole got given an extra 3 for a tactical ride which gives score a false look.

 

Seems to be most meetings this happens, just can't work out how it's fair on the side winning.

[BluPanther]

Tactical rides and jokers are only found in speedway and 'Its a knockout'. Anyone see a connection....

[BWitcher]

Here we go again....

[Arson fire]

Is it akin to closing time in the nightclub and asking the fat lass dancing by herself to come back to yours for a cake.

[david2905]

My first post so please be kind, have watched speedway for years and still can't work out the point of a tactical ride. Only sport I know of that you can be losing but then be allowed to get extra points. Last night at swindon they won by 7 and had to get a 3 3 to deny Poole a point, but poole got given an extra 3 for a tactical ride which gives score a false look.

 

Seems to be most meetings this happens, just can't work out how it's fair on the side winning.

 

It's pandering to Sky in the hope of keeping meetings (when on TV) interesting for longer by keeping the result open for longer rather than one team getting tonked out of sight, as a Brummies fan, it's infuriated the hell out of me as tradtionally we've gone for teams with strength through the order, the typical pattern is we'd go 10-14 up by say heat 9, then a top heavy team would send their Grand prix riders out on one or two tacticals, then with heats 13 & 15 shortly following their use, we'd go from 14 in front to losing by 4 at the end of the meeting

 

Luckily we've been good enough this season to avoid it mostly, but an all too frequent scenario in previous seasons, what irks me most is tacticals favour top heavy teams who can afford the superstar GP riders, it can't be right they are given an artificial chance of winning meetings when they only have 2 riders getting points as opposed to the oppositions 5 or more.

 

Apart from this season, Birmingham v Wolves fixtures have been classic example, we smack them out of sight, then Freddie and Tai get comedy points to dig them out a hole.

Edited September 3, 2013 by david2905

[waiheke1]

 

 

It's pandering to Sky in the hope of keeping meetings (when on TV) interesting for longer

really? when do u think tactical rides were introduced? and when did sky start covering speedway ? I think you may find a bit of a gap between the two

[BWitcher]

 

 

It's pandering to Sky in the hope of keeping meetings (when on TV) interesting for longer by keeping the result open for longer rather than one team getting tonked out of sight, as a Brummies fan, it's infuriated the hell out of me as tradtionally we've gone for teams with strength through the order, the typical pattern is we'd go 10-14 up by say heat 9, then a top heavy team would send their Grand prix riders out on one or two tacticals, then with heats 13 & 15 shortly following their use, we'd go from 14 in front to losing by 4 at the end of the meeting

 

Luckily we've been good enough this season to avoid it mostly, but an all too frequent scenario in previous seasons, what irks me most is tacticals favour top heavy teams who can afford the superstar GP riders, it can't be right they are given an artificial chance of winning meetings when they only have 2 riders getting points as opposed to the oppositions 5 or more.

 

Apart from this season, Birmingham v Wolves fixtures have been classic example, we smack them out of sight, then Freddie and Tai get comedy points to dig them out a hole.

 

Lot of flaws in your argument there.

 

If you went from 14 up to losing by 4 then your balanced team didn't get the job done. It's likely for that to have happened only one tac ride would have been used, giving a maximum of an extra 3 pts, so you would still have lost anyway in your scenario.

 

I do understand your point however, the tactical system has always favored the top heavy teams. It favors the losing team less now than it has ever done since tacticals were introduced though.

Edited September 3, 2013 by BWitcher

[Catalan]

Wasn't Simon Wigg behind the original idea?

[T.N.T.]

Birmingham v Wolves fixtures have been classic example, we smack them out of sight, then Freddie and Tai get comedy points to dig them out a hole.

 

 

The last time Wolves came to Perry Barr, Tai and Freddie had tactical rides and both failed to beat a Brummies rider and it ended 57-33 which was a bit of a smacking

 

The time before ended 46-44 and Wolves never used a tactical ride, however the result was so close mainly due to Freddie and Tai only dropping one point between them from 11 starts and gained 5-1's in heats 13 and 15 ..... hardly a smacking.

 

 

Can't think of any sport where you can take out a lesser person and put in a top star for a short time. However no one complained when that was in place. The main reason a tactical ride was introduced was to replace the tactical replacement was to give the lower riders all their programmed rides as you would often have teams with a 3.00 number seven, e has 3 rides but got taken out of one race just to give the big earners an extra ride,

 

Thankully the 15 meters back was taken out, although it did provide some good races, but again it only suited the real top riders like Ward, Lindgren etc and now at least you can have riders like Skornicki, Barker or Zengota gven tactical rides. To me it's a lesser of two evils but for a team to really pull something back, they need an 8-1 and that means oth programmed riders have to perform and if they do get maximum points, they were at least going to get a 5-1 anyway, so they will still be losing either way.

 

 

 

PS; If you think Wolves always get a smacking by Brummies ...... bring on the play offs and hopefully the final !!!!

[PHILIPRISING]

Wasn't Simon Wigg behind the original idea?

 

WAY before his time...

[screm]

Is it akin to closing time in the nightclub and asking the fat lass dancing by herself to come back to yours for a cake.

 

Thats how its writing down in the rule book I think.

[moxey63]

Wasn't Simon Wigg behind the original idea?

 

Don't blame someone who isn't here to defend himself, god rest him.

 

As for the gap between SKY's coverage starting and The Golden Double rules, was it four years. And don't forget, the first year of SKY we had the 6-lap nominated riders race. Surely there's we see proof of SKY's influence. And what about the green helmet colour - something to do with introducing betting via remote control gadgets. Don't think it took off though; most speedway fans fitted the batteries in the handset wrong and actually thought it was a calculator to tot up avearges.

Edited September 3, 2013 by moxey63

[orion]

It's pandering to Sky in the hope of keeping meetings (when on TV) interesting for longer by keeping the result open for longer rather than one team getting tonked out of sight, as a Brummies fan, it's infuriated the hell out of me as tradtionally we've gone for teams with strength through the order, the typical pattern is we'd go 10-14 up by say heat 9, then a top heavy team would send their Grand prix riders out on one or two tacticals, then with heats 13 & 15 shortly following their use, we'd go from 14 in front to losing by 4 at the end of the meeting

 

Luckily we've been good enough this season to avoid it mostly, but an all too frequent scenario in previous seasons, what irks me most is tacticals favour top heavy teams who can afford the superstar GP riders, it can't be right they are given an artificial chance of winning meetings when they only have 2 riders getting points as opposed to the oppositions 5 or more.

 

Apart from this season, Birmingham v Wolves fixtures have been classic example, we smack them out of sight, then Freddie and Tai get comedy points to dig them out a hole.

Never got this about sky ..surely the old tac sub rule made the matches close and that had nothing to with sky ....the idea was brought in to replace the old rule because teams were paying to much money to there top riders when they took extra rides .

[bigcatdiary]

 

The main reason a tactical ride was introduced was to replace the tactical replacement was to give the lower riders all their programmed rides as you would often have teams with a 3.00 number seven, e has 3 rides but got taken out of one race just to give the big earners an extra ride,

 

The main reason the tactical ride was introduced was to save money.

 

Plenty of teams still go for a 3.00 point number seven and plenty of those riders only get 3 rides per meeting.

[david2905]

The last time Wolves came to Perry Barr, Tai and Freddie had tactical rides and both failed to beat a Brummies rider and it ended 57-33 which was a bit of a smacking

 

You edited out where I said immediatly before that "apart from this season" you doughnut

 

It's an example of what I believe is wrong with the tacticals system, don't take the heats/scores quoted too literally.

[moxey63]

I remember the rumour that the GD was introduced to save money. But it doesn't make sense having two races (13 and 15) with the same riders (nearly always) getting paid possibly the highest points money.

[BWitcher]

I remember the rumour that the GD was introduced to save money. But it doesn't make sense having two races (13 and 15) with the same riders (nearly always) getting paid possibly the highest points money.

 

It wasn't a rumour, it was confirmed by a number of promoters at the time.

 

Actually Heat 13 makes perfect sense as the higher earners will be beating each other.

[orion]

I remember the rumour that the GD was introduced to save money. But it doesn't make sense having two races (13 and 15) with the same riders (nearly always) getting paid possibly the highest points money.

Was it introduced when there was 13 or 15 heats ?

[uk_martin]

It's pandering to Sky in the hope of keeping meetings (when on TV) interesting for longer by keeping the result open for longer rather than one team getting tonked out of sight

 

Then please explain why there was a "Tactical" rule in one guise or another in the days of black and white television, let alone before Sky. Also what is the excuse for the Polish League still having a TS rule that is very similar to what was in use in Britain in the 70's and 80's? No doubts the Swedes use something similar too...

 

Like it or lump it the TR / TS has been part of speedway for longer than we've been around, and they do something to keep meetings alive. Unlike football or rugby (etc) where if one team is way better than the opposition, you can still marvel at their quality of play, in speedway, it has the opposite effect. One team being way better than their opponents leads to boring 4-lap motorcycle processions that do nothing to entertain the paying public. Something has to be in place to counter that, and the TR/TS is what we have.

[SteveLyric2]

Then please explain why there was a "Tactical" rule in one guise or another in the days of black and white television, let alone before Sky. Also what is the excuse for the Polish League still having a TS rule that is very similar to what was in use in Britain in the 70's and 80's? No doubts the Swedes use something similar too...

 

Like it or lump it the TR / TS has been part of speedway for longer than we've been around, and they do something to keep meetings alive. Unlike football or rugby (etc) where if one team is way better than the opposition, you can still marvel at their quality of play, in speedway, it has the opposite effect. One team being way better than their opponents leads to boring 4-lap motorcycle processions that do nothing to entertain the paying public. Something has to be in place to counter that, and the TR/TS is what we have.

As so ably demonstrated by Lakeside last night!!!