2014 League /s

[Martin Merritt]

The main issue is the fact the we have a spineless organisation running the show with too many vested interests sticking their fingers in.

[macinter]

I doubt if the BSPA is all that much different to other organisations, there will be good promoters and not so good promoters, but nearly every man, or woman and his/her dog know how speedway should be run, or not run. Just like I know how football should be run, how cricket should be run, how Councils should be run, how immigration should be dealt with, how the recent floods in the South East should have been sorted, how the European Union should be organised, how repairing the roads should be sorted, how the banking crisis should have been dealt with, what we should do about dodgy builders and plumbers, what we should do about the drunks in our town centres, and the drunks driving cars and those who use mobile phones whilst driving and what we should do with those who break the speed limits, etc. etc. etc. I know what we should do with all of them but I have no idea what to do about sorting speedway racing!!

[Lioness]

Stirling Council Needs You! lol

[EC Rides Again]

I think we are heading for a level of competition on a par with Germany/Russia/Czech Republic, i.e. handful of tracks, semi-pro/amateur/youth lower league structure, 4, 5 or 6 teams in a professional league with no more than half a dozen home fixtures. Won't be next season, but will happen within 5 or 6 years.

[Trees]

Of course they're discussing next season . . . do hope they make their decisions asap :-/

[Halifaxtiger]

I tend to back your comment. Each year the sport declines more. I think that in 10 years time it will be individual meetings only with a hard core of regular riders competing at various tracks. These meetings will probably operate on a monthly basis and possibly be promoted by a central organisation.

 

And yet people can't stop opening new tracks. At present I know of 5 where there is more than limited interest - Cornwall, Norwich, Castleford, Bristol & Bradford. In the last 10 years, we have seen Scunthorpe, Leicester, Plymouth & Dudley all come back.

 

No-one in their right mind would suggest that speedway isn't in the sick ward, because it is. But its not terminal.

 

Next season - amalgamate the top two leagues, dump the top riders and let Dudley in. Divide the league into northern and southern sections, with 12 in each. Southern teams ride home and away against each other, as do northern ones. They also ride 6 matches against teams from the other grouping. Midland sides have matches guaranteed against each other. KO Cup to be national.

 

Recruit riders from the NL (one per team) and from abroad to make up the gaps. Get a Sky deal at £25k per team.

 

I suspect that most (if not all) teams would be in profit, breaking even or be close to that.

[The White Knight]

And yet people can't stop opening new tracks. At present I know of 5 where there is more than limited interest - Cornwall, Norwich, Castleford, Bristol & Bradford. In the last 10 years, we have seen Scunthorpe, Leicester, Plymouth & Dudley all come back.

 

No-one in their right mind would suggest that speedway isn't in the sick ward, because it is. But its not terminal.

 

Next season - amalgamate the top two leagues, dump the top riders and let Dudley in. Divide the league into northern and southern sections, with 12 in each. Southern teams ride home and away against each other, as do northern ones. They also ride 6 matches against teams from the other grouping. Midland sides have matches guaranteed against each other. KO Cup to be national.

 

Recruit riders from the NL (one per team) and from abroad to make up the gaps. Get a Sky deal at £25k per team.

 

I suspect that most (if not all) teams would be in profit, breaking even or be close to that.

 

I like the cut of your jib there HT...................................................

 

.............................................. as well as dropping the Double Points Rule of course.

[arthur cross]

Next season - amalgamate the top two leagues, dump the top riders and let Dudley in. Divide the league into northern and southern sections, with 12 in each. Southern teams ride home and away against each other, as do northern ones. They also ride 6 matches against teams from the other grouping. Midland sides have matches guaranteed against each other. KO Cup to be national.

 

Given your guidelines for how the fixtures are carved up and given there will then be 4 teams in the West Midlands in the same league forming by far the biggest concentration of rivals anywhere in the country, I'll suggest the following groupings ...

 

Northern Section - Anglo Scottish Group - Glasgow, Edinburgh, Workington, Berwick, Newcastle & Redcar

Northern Section - Midlands Group - Belle Vue, Sheffield, Scunthorpe, Leicester & "Any 2 of Wolv-Dud-Birm-Cov"

 

Southern Section - Eastern Group - Peterborough, King's Lynn, Ipswich, Rye House, Lakeside & Eastbourne

Southern Section - Western Group - Plymouth, Somerset, Swindon, Poole & "Other 2 of Wolv-Dud-Birm-Cov"

 

I'm not sure if I'd put Wolves & Dudley in the same group (so that they're always battling against each other in the league standings) or put them in separate groups while guaranteeing them cross-section local derbies against each other (making it easier to create the most varied line-up of away teams visiting Monmore).

 

I did try fitting all 4 of the West Midlands teams into the same group but their collective location in the centre of the map makes this very tough without the side-effect of some strange groupings elsewhere .,. you could put Belle Vue and Leicester in with the West Midlands quartet but that would force Sheffield & Scunthorpe into a mostly East Anglian group and, in turn, that would force Eastbourne and either Rye House or Lakeside into a mostly South Western group.

 

The other bonus of dividing the West Midlands quartet into 2 regular-season pairs is that it creates more permutations of a very lucrative all-West Midlands play-off pairing.

 

However, one snag is that guaranteeing too many Midlands local derbies that criss-cross the Northern & Southern sections could lumber the Anglo-Scots and south-west-based teams with too many expensive long-distance trips to each other.

 

And perhaps the biggest snag of all is how well the Anglo-Scottish teams, all of which are currently in the Premier League, could tempt enough top-level riders (whatever that top-level turns out to be) to commit themselves to a full season of lengthy travelling just for home meetings ... alternatively, we might end up with that Anglo-Scottish group having a much different attitude to its team-building as I suspect they'd have to go much more down the "strength-in-depth" route instead of "top-heavy".

 

Any comments / complaints / alternatives will be most welcome !!

Edited August 31, 2013 by arthur cross

[Halifaxtiger]

Given your guidelines for how the fixtures are carved up and given there will then be 4 teams in the West Midlands in the same league forming by far the biggest concentration of rivals anywhere in the country, I'll suggest the following groupings ...

 

However, one snag is that guaranteeing too many Midlands local derbies that criss-cross the Northern & Southern sections could lumber the Anglo-Scots and south-west-based teams with too many expensive long-distance trips to each other.

 

And perhaps the biggest snag of all is how well the Anglo-Scottish teams, all of which are currently in the Premier League, could tempt enough top-level riders (whatever that top-level turns out to be) to commit themselves to a full season of lengthy travelling just for home meetings ... alternatively, we might end up with that Anglo-Scottish group having a much different attitude to its team-building as I suspect they'd have to go much more down the "strength-in-depth" route instead of "top-heavy".

 

Any comments / complaints / alternatives will be most welcome !!

 

My groupings were:

 

Edinburgh, Glasgow, Berwick, Newcastle, Redcar, Workington, Sheffield, Scunthorpe, Belle Vue, Leicester, Dudley, Wolverhampton.

 

Plymouth, Poole, Somerset, Eastbourne, Lakeside, Rye House, King's Lynn, Peterborough, Birmingham, Coventry, Ipswich,Swindon.

 

The Midlands clubs (Coventry, Dudley, Wolverhampton,Leicester, Birmingham) miss out on local derbies (to a degree) so they get their fixtures guaranteed - ie Dudley get Coventry and Birmingham, Birmingham get Leicester, Wolverhampton & Dudley.

 

I actually think that in terms of travel costs the current PL clubs will do better, the current EL ones worse.

 

Top level riders will be the current PL ones - ie Craig Cook, Jason Doyle etc. As most of the northern PL clubs already attract then, I don't think that is a problem.

 

I suspect that if it is run like this the first season would be a bit of a pig's breakfast as far as teams were concerned. It should settle down more in future seasons.

 

I like the cut of your jib there HT...................................................

 

.............................................. as well as dropping the Double Points Rule of course.

 

That stays in, mate - as do the play offs

[MattK]

Why do people want a north/south split?

 

I'm looking forwards to the prospect of teams like Edinburgh, Scunthorpe, Berwick etc coming to Swindon next season.

[stratton]

Why do people want a north/south split?

 

I'm looking forwards to the prospect of teams like Edinburgh, Scunthorpe, Berwick etc coming to Swindon next season.

It would be great Matt and i certainly would travel to some of those venues,it might not be all doom and gloom maybe a new league could kick start something better longterm for the sport.? Edited August 31, 2013 by sidney

[arthur cross]

Why do people want a north/south split?

 

I'm looking forwards to the prospect of teams like Edinburgh, Scunthorpe, Berwick etc coming to Swindon next season.

 

It's not so much a case of "wanting" a north/south split ... it's just a realistic economic view that some sort of regional groupings may make a big difference towards more clubs breaking-even (or better) instead of still losing money.

 

From your view as a spectator, you've every right to look forward to teams like Edinburgh, Scunthorpe and Berwick visiting Swindon to give you some extra variety among the opposition.

 

But despite the great enthusiasm of a few Monarchs and Bandits fans (the Scorpions' long-distance away support is almost non-existent), your club will get hardly any away fans' money at the turnstiles while you're enjoying watching those meetings ... the costs of staging those meetings remains the same (stadium rent, riders' wages, ambulance, etc) without as much crowd money coming in.

 

Less obviously, but arguably more importantly towards balancing the books, creating one big league without regional groupings would almost certainly lead to more 2-match (or even 3-match) tours to help cut down travelling time for the riders ... for example, there'd probably be far more cases of teams visiting Poole/Wed & Swindon/Thu on consecutive nights or requesting Swindon/Thu followed by either Somerset or Plymouth on the Friday ... tours do save money if the weather's good but they're a financial disaster if the last meeting of the trip is a washout after a club's already paid for all its riders having what's turned out to be a unnecessary night in a hotel.

[The White Knight]

Some great Points to ponder here. I have certainly got food for thought.

 

A super Thread.

[Halifaxtiger]

Why do people want a north/south split?

 

I'm looking forwards to the prospect of teams like Edinburgh, Scunthorpe, Berwick etc coming to Swindon next season.

 

Personally, I agree but you can't ride 46 league matches in a season, and that's what you would have. This way, you do get to see and visit northern clubs, just not all of them.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Halifaxtiger

[RHayes]

South & West: Birmingham, Coventry, Dudley, Leicester, Swindon, Poole, Somerset, Rye House, Lakeside, Plymouth, Eastbourne, Wolverhampton. North & East: Glasgow, Edinburgh, Berwick, Workington, Newcastle, Redcar, Scunthorpe, Sheffield, King's Lynn, Peterborough, Ipswich & Belle Vue.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Richard Hayes

[oldtimer]

The BSPA need to find out if SKY are pulling the plug or not, Swindon are struggling to pay their riders even with SKY. Also need to ask all Premier and Conference clubs how many are definitely going to have air fences in place by the start of next season. If there is to be one big league how will the team averages be worked out, will a Premier riders average be reduced if he is now racing against former Elite riders. The difference in ability is too great between top Elite and second string Premier riders and would produce processional racing so will Elite riders say over 8 point averages be banned from competing in the new league. The only way promoters can afford new air fences is to get the money back from their only income and that's the fans, unless their sponsors give more. However many I have spoken to say the current prices are as much as they are willing to pay for the entertainment given. Of course the entertainment could be improved, and I am not talking about the racing more the presentation. Is there a firm who will rent air fences for a season with an option to buy? Would the Premier League still be viable with half the current teams? Answers on a postcard please.

[MattK]

Personally, I agree but you can't ride 46 league matches in a season, and that's what you would have. This way, you do get to see and visit northern clubs, just not all of them.

 

According to my calculations, there are 26 Thursdays from April to September. If you fans want regular weekly meetings, without lots of challenge matches, cups and fillers and we want the league to be self-sufficient, then I think we should be looking at somehow trying to fit every clubs home and away once into the fixtures.

[arthur cross]

According to my calculations, there are 26 Thursdays from April to September. If you fans want regular weekly meetings, without lots of challenge matches, cups and fillers and we want the league to be self-sufficient, then I think we should be looking at somehow trying to fit every clubs home and away once into the fixtures.

 

Can you please start being realistic in what you'd like to happen instead of hoping for the downright impossible or economically suicidal !!

 

Let's say we had the one big 24-team league next season, requiring 23 home and 23 away fixtures to satisfy your ideal wish of bringing every team to Swindon while also taking the Robins to every other track in the league (presumably ideally on each of those tracks' regular night so that all the other fans also have as convenient a home schedule as yourselves at the Abbey Stadium) ... I'll also be generous and let you have the last fortnight of March to give you 28 weeks in which to squeeze in all those fixtures.

 

Given Swindon race on a Thursday, you're going to need 27 weeks to fit in all your home fixtures plus your trips to Birmingham, Ipswich, Redcar and Sheffield as they're all Thursday tracks as well.

 

Add in just an average amount of grim weather when setting-up a fixture-list like one rainoff every 2 months and that's another 3 Thursdays you'll be expecting to need to catch-up those rain-offs, making 30 Thursdays in total.

 

Ok, you can ease the pressure a little bit with careful bits of Bank Holiday scheduling between "same night" clubs but those meetings are the biggest nightmare of all to reschedule after a rain-off ... in any case, I've already shown how easy it is to use up 30 Thursdays with only average rainfall so that means a choice between ...

 

1) letting the regular-season run into mid-October to make it last 30 weeks which seriously limits any title-deciding play-offs (great for the purists on this forum but almost certainly bad news for securing a deal from any TV-company)

 

2) having playoffs to suit any TV-deal and therefore relying to a ludicrous extent on good weather so that everything's tidied-up in a regular-season that can last only the 28-weeks until the end of September.

 

And as it stands at the moment, there would be 6 Friday tracks - Coventry, Edinburgh, Lakeside, Plymouth, Scunthorpe, Somerset - making it even tougher for them to avoid using a few off-nights against each other.

 

(Like the set of 5 Thursday tracks I've already mentioned, there would also be 5 Saturdays at Berwick, Eastbourne, Leicester, Rye House & Workington ... 2 Sundays at Glasgow & Newcastle .... 2 Mondays at Belle Vue & Wolverhampton ... 1 Tuesday at Dudley ... 2 Wednesdays at King's Lynn & Poole ... and 1 "mish-mash" at Peterborough due to them having to work around various one-off agricultural events at their showground.)

 

If England qualify for next summer's football World Cup, you've also hardly any spare capacity in the speedway schedule to let clubs dodge round the nights of England's games.

 

Whatever league format is served up in 2014, I doubt any current Elite or Premier promoter would want more than 20 regular-season home league meetings ... any more than that is asking for trouble from the great British climate, regardless of how much the fans have a regular home-night as their top priority when they're surveyed.

Edited August 31, 2013 by arthur cross

[stratton]

 

 

Can you please start being realistic in what you'd like to happen instead of hoping for the downright impossible or economically suicidal !!

 

Let's say we had the one big 24-team league next season, requiring 23 home and 23 away fixtures to satisfy your ideal wish of bringing every team to Swindon while also taking the Robins to every other track in the league (presumably ideally on each of those tracks' regular night so that all the other fans also have as convenient a home schedule as yourselves at the Abbey Stadium) ... I'll also be generous and let you have the last fortnight of March to give you 28 weeks in which to squeeze in all those fixtures.

 

Given Swindon race on a Thursday, you're going to need 27 weeks to fit in all your home fixtures plus your trips to Birmingham, Ipswich, Redcar and Sheffield as they're all Thursday tracks as well.

 

Add in just an average amount of grim weather when setting-up a fixture-list like one rainoff every 2 months and that's another 3 Thursdays you'll be expecting to need to catch-up those rain-offs, making 30 Thursdays in total.

 

Ok, you can ease the pressure a little bit with careful bits of Bank Holiday scheduling between "same night" clubs but those meetings are the biggest nightmare of all to reschedule after a rain-off ... in any case, I've already shown how easy it is to use up 30 Thursdays with only average rainfall so that means a choice between ...

 

1) letting the regular-season run into mid-October to make it last 30 weeks which seriously limits any title-deciding play-offs (great for the purists on this forum but almost certainly bad news for securing a deal from any TV-company)

 

2) having playoffs to suit any TV-deal and therefore relying to a ludicrous extent on good weather so that everything's tidied-up in a regular-season that can last only the 28-weeks until the end of September.

 

And as it stands at the moment, there would be 6 Friday tracks - Coventry, Edinburgh, Lakeside, Plymouth, Scunthorpe, Somerset - making it even tougher for them to avoid using a few off-nights against each other.

 

(Like the set of 5 Thursday tracks I've already mentioned, there would also be 5 Saturdays at Berwick, Eastbourne, Leicester, Rye House & Workington ... 2 Sundays at Glasgow & Newcastle .... 2 Mondays at Belle Vue & Wolverhampton ... 1 Tuesday at Dudley ... 2 Wednesdays at King's Lynn & Poole ... and 1 "mish-mash" at Peterborough due to them having to work around various one-off agricultural events at their showground.)

 

If England qualify for next summer's football World Cup, you've also hardly any spare capacity in the speedway schedule to let clubs dodge round the nights of England's games.

 

Whatever league format is served up in 2014, I doubt any current Elite or Premier promoter would want more than 20 regular-season home league meetings ... any more than that is asking for trouble from the great British climate, regardless of how much the fans have a regular home-night as their top priority when they're surveyed.

Arthur twenty home fixtures is about right i think.Wouldnt certain tracks have problems doing more anyway with the Greyhounds curfews( ect) and also it is not financially viable the point you made about the World Cup is a massive point.I hope this new league gets set up teams start on a level playing field and balance the books and try and get a bit of stability for the longterm. Edited August 31, 2013 by sidney

[arthur cross]

Arthur twenty home fixtures is about right i think.Wouldnt certain tracks have problems doing more anyway with the Greyhounds curfews( ect) and also it is not financially viable the point you made about the World Cup is a massive point.I hope this new league gets set up teams start on a level playing field and balance the books and try and get a bit of stability for the longterm.

 

Every greyhound track has a very settled weekly pattern of meetings (only a few of the big events shown on Sky require any one-off adjustments) so it's always easy for speedway clubs sharing with dog tracks to work out on which days the speedway track's available.

 

Personally, I think it's going to be too difficult to find enough common ground between the wealthier end of the Elite League and the poorer end of the Premier League to establish one big league of all the current 23 Elite/Premier clubs plus any ambitious National outfits like Dudley.

 

In fact, given such a wide range of ambitions to merge together, I reckon it would be a fine achievement to bring as many as 18 clubs into any new top division ... however, I fear that would still have the gloomy side-effect of some of the leftover clubs closing down unless the National League could be pitched at a slightly higher level to help absorb them.

 

Closures did happen in connection with the last "one big league" era of 1995 & 96 ... for example, Newcastle still had horrible memories of how much it cost them being a top-division club for just one season in 1984 so they closed when the 2nd Division ended in 1994 but always wanted to return if that level was revived ... sure enough, the Elite-&-Premier format began in 1997 and Newcastle have been a Premier club for all of that level's 17 seasons.

 

Meanwhile, even if England do qualify for it, the 2014 football World Cup in Brazil (generally 4 hours behind the UK, a couple of its venues 5 hours behind the UK) might not be quite as big a problem for speedway as either the 2006 or 2010 versions (Germany & South Africa each 1 hour ahead of the UK).

 

That's because there will be late-night kick-offs UK-time that won't clash with speedway during the first couple of rounds of group games (10 matches will start at 11pm/UK, 1 match starts at 2am/UK to round off the only day with 4 matches squeezed into it instead of 3) ... however, for the last round of group games and the whole knockout, everything's 5pm, 8pm or 9pm/UK ... the full set of venues/dates/kick-offs has been on FIFA's website for a few months already and the teams will be added into it when the group draw's made on Fri-6th-Dec.