Elite League 2014

[hans fan]

 

 

Sorry, i wasn't aware you had assess to all the promoters finances, perhaps you can start the solo jog.

jeez talk about bury your head in the sand , your eyes should tell you all you need to know

[Bagpuss]

 

 

Sorry, i wasn't aware you had assess to all the promoters finances, perhaps you can start the solo jog.

 

You are even more obtuse than I thought if you don't think the vast majority of EL promoters are losing money hand over fist. You are the one on the solo jog, more or less everyone else recognises that cost need to be drastically cut even if Sky stay on board. Not to mention the facts that we need more regular fixtures and riders who are going to be present for all of the fixtures. That last issue will only get worse for the top riders.

[stevebrum]

jeez talk about bury your head in the sand , your eyes should tell you all you need to know

You are even more obtuse than I thought if you don't think the vast majority of EL promoters are losing money hand over fist. You are the one on the solo jog, more or less everyone else recognises that cost need to be drastically cut even if Sky stay on board. Not to mention the facts that we need more regular fixtures and riders who are going to be present for all of the fixtures. That last issue will only get worse for the top riders.

 

Where have i said that promoters AREN'T losing money?? It seems apparent that the EL is struggling that virtually everyone can see and i am certainly not blind to it.

 

My response was simple - by killing off the access to the big boys it will kill support by a further 35%. That isnt me blindly believing that the EL is fine and dandy - it isn't.

Attendance has got lower with every dumbing down of rules and prevention (not encouragement) of the top boys riding here or making it flexible for them to do so.

A co-incidence that attendances in the EL have dropped with every big name dropping the league??

Some of us clearly want the best riders here and there has to be ways to make that happen (more sponsorship, giving SKY more of what they want big hitters - and therefore a bigger chunk of money). It isn't rude or ignorant to say that without those big hitters a lot of fans will be lost to the sport. That is just the way it will be IF radical changes like those being mentioned happen.

 

That isn't being blind to all that is going on in the sport, not at all , but the changes being suggested (i would imagine by PRO PL supporters no doubt) may just alienate a core of its own fans.

 

That isn't to say i agree or disagree that the EL has to function on a different form next year, by trying to take the sport here back to grass roots it will cut off some of its supply of supporters.

 

My opinion that's all.

[hans fan]

 

 

 

Where have i said that promoters AREN'T losing money?? It seems apparent that the EL is struggling that virtually everyone can see and i am certainly not blind to it.

 

My response was simple - by killing off the access to the big boys it will kill support by a further 35%. That isnt me blindly believing that the EL is fine and dandy - it isn't.

Attendance has got lower with every dumbing down of rules and prevention (not encouragement) of the top boys riding here or making it flexible for them to do so.

A co-incidence that attendances in the EL have dropped with every big name dropping the league??

Some of us clearly want the best riders here and there has to be ways to make that happen (more sponsorship, giving SKY more of what they want big hitters - and therefore a bigger chunk of money). It isn't rude or ignorant to say that without those big hitters a lot of fans will be lost to the sport. That is just the way it will be IF radical changes like those being mentioned happen.

 

That isn't being blind to all that is going on in the sport, not at all , but the changes being suggested (i would imagine by PRO PL supporters no doubt) may just alienate a core of its own fans.

 

That isn't to say i agree or disagree that the EL has to function on a different form next year, by trying to take the sport here back to grass roots it will cut off some of its supply of supporters.

 

My opinion that's all.

so where have you plucked the 35% less will go figure from

[stevebrum]

so where have you plucked the 35% less will go figure from

 

Simply splitting the 3 leagues for fairness.

I don't have the actual figures of attendances for each league , if you can get hold of them it might make my fair split look silly.

[Jonny the spud]

 

 

Simply splitting the 3 leagues for fairness.

I don't have the actual figures of attendances for each league , if you can get hold of them it might make my fair split look silly.

 

So you're saying you just guessed and passed it off as fact ?

 

No need for anyone to research figures to make you look silly, you're managing quite well on your own.

[g13webb]

My thoughts about the demise of our sport.

 

Part 1: Sold down the river.

 

After watching the sad demise of Team GB in the recent SWC, I have spent considerable time, delving into the problems that now bestows our beloved sport, I have concluded that the blame lies firmly in three areas. I feel that the Top Riders and the Promoters (BSPA) have to admit their share of the blame, but, the majority has to be laid firmly at the doors of the FIM. They were the top brass, people who should lead and govern the sport, but they have in effect washed their hands of all their responsibility when they have, in effect, sold the rights of the World Championship to an independent organisation namely BSI/IMG.

Please don’t think I’m knocking BSI, they have taken this opportunity and marketed SGP into a successful brand, one, that generates considerably interest. But given the licence to ‘Cherry-pick’ the cream of the world’s best riders, it’s hardly surprising the success it has gained.

Unfortunately there has been massive repercussions with the bread and butter issues of league racing and the promotion of local speedway presentations. Since the introduction of the SGP, the riders, can now pick and choose where they ride, based purely on the financial rewards and the available schedules. Even though the BSI are an independent body they have this incredible power to totally dictate the sport, by the way, the SGP‘s are actually run. The ‘Cream Riders’ don’t need to ride in League matches anymore, they are assured of a place in the SGP whether they ride or not. This has turned the majority of these riders’ into nothing more, than mercenaries, performing for the biggest wedge. Of cause, there are one or two exceptions but not many…

Geographically, England was always going to be the hardest country hit, as it is far easier for riders to concentrate their earning potential in mainland Europe. The knock-on effect of this is, has reduced the number of class riders competing in our league, which subsequently has lowered the actual standard of racing here. The knock on effect of this means that even the British riders, who compete regularly in our league, still need to race in other countries to home their skills of that of the world status.

But it gets worse. By allowing the BSI to govern the qualification system of the SGP, they organise series of meetings, scattered all over the world, throughout the year, not giving a thought, or caring a damn, to the disruption they create by taking the riders away from their league commitments. What make this white elephant even more annoying is that the majority of these riders won’t ever have a realistic chance of ever qualifying for the SGP’s.

 

 

The FIM can change all this so easily. They have to understand the importance of the connection between the bread and butter league racing and that of the World Championship. Their failure to recognise this, has all but destroyed the sport, and if we carry on like this, there will be no cream left for the BSI to cherry-pick.

The ‘Qualification’ to the following year’s SGP has to be achieved by the riders competing in league matches. Let’s imagine, the top 3 riders from each of the leagues of the four main countries, namely, Poland, Denmark, Sweden and England. Those 12 riders would then join the 3 top riders from the previous year’s SGP leaving the opportunity for the organisers, to include a home rider to attract in the local support.

This one rule change would immediately alter the way speedway exists.

It would:

1: Put more importance into all the league matches and the riders would put more emphasis into competing in them, especially ours, knowing the only way to qualify for the SGP was to finish high up in the averages;

2: It would put Promoters in a far stronger bargaining position when negotiating with these class riders; there would be no more of these high ransom fees that are being paid to top riders, this therefore, would create a bigger and better draw for the spectators who would be able to afford to watch.

3: These riders would have to perform every meeting to the best of their ability just to insure their averages was high up the list. It would create far more intensity into league matches, No more of this going through the motions like some riders do. Turning up with sub-standard equipment will be a thing of the past.

4: It would be a much fairer way for all the riders to reach the SGP status. To me it has always been wrong to award qualification on a top ten finish, or to a permanent wild card entry. This is only done so the organisers can dictate their choice of riders.

5: It would totally eliminate the clubs problems with missing riders that incurred when these so called Qualifiers are being held. Riders are usually away for 2 days at least, and have to be replaced with a guest or R/R. Neither of which is satisfactory.

I’m not suggesting BSI should not be involved, far from it. They do a wonderful job of presenting and putting on a good show. There’s no reason why they can’t continue doing the same. Each rider who finishes the season high up, near the top of the averages is a class performer. Therefore the quality of the series wouldn’t necessarily change, purely the structure that identifies their success. The BSI, the Riders, the Promoters, the Spectators, in fact, everyone will know how the system works and who and what can be achieved from one year to the next. This should be set in stone.!!

There is not ONE good reason why this can’t happen. Either the World Championships are run for the benefit of the sport, or run for the benefit of BSI. All it needs is for the right people to take control of the sport. Let the qualification and the organisation be left to the people who should govern. The FIM.

 

Part 2, More thoughts to follow ……..

[fish keeper]

 

My thoughts about the demise of our sport.

 

Part 1: Sold down the river.

 

After watching the sad demise of Team GB in the recent SWC, I have spent considerable time, delving into the problems that now bestows our beloved sport, I have concluded that the blame lies firmly in three areas. I feel that the Top Riders and the Promoters (BSPA) have to admit their share of the blame, but, the majority has to be laid firmly at the doors of the FIM. They were the top brass, people who should lead and govern the sport, but they have in effect washed their hands of all their responsibility when they have, in effect, sold the rights of the World Championship to an independent organisation namely BSI/IMG.

Please don’t think I’m knocking BSI, they have taken this opportunity and marketed SGP into a successful brand, one, that generates considerably interest. But given the licence to ‘Cherry-pick’ the cream of the world’s best riders, it’s hardly surprising the success it has gained.

Unfortunately there has been massive repercussions with the bread and butter issues of league racing and the promotion of local speedway presentations. Since the introduction of the SGP, the riders, can now pick and choose where they ride, based purely on the financial rewards and the available schedules. Even though the BSI are an independent body they have this incredible power to totally dictate the sport, by the way, the SGP‘s are actually run. The ‘Cream Riders’ don’t need to ride in League matches anymore, they are assured of a place in the SGP whether they ride or not. This has turned the majority of these riders’ into nothing more, than mercenaries, performing for the biggest wedge. Of cause, there are one or two exceptions but not many…

Geographically, England was always going to be the hardest country hit, as it is far easier for riders to concentrate their earning potential in mainland Europe. The knock-on effect of this is, has reduced the number of class riders competing in our league, which subsequently has lowered the actual standard of racing here. The knock on effect of this means that even the British riders, who compete regularly in our league, still need to race in other countries to home their skills of that of the world status.

But it gets worse. By allowing the BSI to govern the qualification system of the SGP, they organise series of meetings, scattered all over the world, throughout the year, not giving a thought, or caring a damn, to the disruption they create by taking the riders away from their league commitments. What make this white elephant even more annoying is that the majority of these riders won’t ever have a realistic chance of ever qualifying for the SGP’s.

 

 

The FIM can change all this so easily. They have to understand the importance of the connection between the bread and butter league racing and that of the World Championship. Their failure to recognise this, has all but destroyed the sport, and if we carry on like this, there will be no cream left for the BSI to cherry-pick.

The ‘Qualification’ to the following year’s SGP has to be achieved by the riders competing in league matches. Let’s imagine, the top 3 riders from each of the leagues of the four main countries, namely, Poland, Denmark, Sweden and England. Those 12 riders would then join the 3 top riders from the previous year’s SGP leaving the opportunity for the organisers, to include a home rider to attract in the local support.

This one rule change would immediately alter the way speedway exists.

It would:

1: Put more importance into all the league matches and the riders would put more emphasis into competing in them, especially ours, knowing the only way to qualify for the SGP was to finish high up in the averages;

2: It would put Promoters in a far stronger bargaining position when negotiating with these class riders; there would be no more of these high ransom fees that are being paid to top riders, this therefore, would create a bigger and better draw for the spectators who would be able to afford to watch.

3: These riders would have to perform every meeting to the best of their ability just to insure their averages was high up the list. It would create far more intensity into league matches, No more of this going through the motions like some riders do. Turning up with sub-standard equipment will be a thing of the past.

4: It would be a much fairer way for all the riders to reach the SGP status. To me it has always been wrong to award qualification on a top ten finish, or to a permanent wild card entry. This is only done so the organisers can dictate their choice of riders.

5: It would totally eliminate the clubs problems with missing riders that incurred when these so called Qualifiers are being held. Riders are usually away for 2 days at least, and have to be replaced with a guest or R/R. Neither of which is satisfactory.

I’m not suggesting BSI should not be involved, far from it. They do a wonderful job of presenting and putting on a good show. There’s no reason why they can’t continue doing the same. Each rider who finishes the season high up, near the top of the averages is a class performer. Therefore the quality of the series wouldn’t necessarily change, purely the structure that identifies their success. The BSI, the Riders, the Promoters, the Spectators, in fact, everyone will know how the system works and who and what can be achieved from one year to the next. This should be set in stone.!!

There is not ONE good reason why this can’t happen. Either the World Championships are run for the benefit of the sport, or run for the benefit of BSI. All it needs is for the right people to take control of the sport. Let the qualification and the organisation be left to the people who should govern. The FIM.

 

Part 2, More thoughts to follow ……..

 

Good post GRW123 one of my pet hates is missing riders and RR.

Edited August 24, 2013 by fish keeper

[Woz01]

Just imagine..................... Woffy gets crowned World Champion at the end of the season and what would be the best way to milk the press attention??

Oh i know lets ridiculously cut the points limit and kick out all the big boys including our BRITISH World Champion.

Smart move that would be.

 

I dont think anyone is saying get rid of Tai, as he is British he SHOULD ride in Britain.

[pandorum]

The Elite can afford them and we need the likes of Jepsen Jensen and Nicki Pedersen back in British speedway.

 

Raise the points limit to 50 and watch the crowds fly in.

A brilliant strategy guarenteed to save the sport in 2014 or not as the case may be

 

Sadly if the sport cannot afford these people in 2013 with SKY money as a comfort blanket how will they do it in 2014 without?

The sport is internally bleeding itself to death flying people back and forwards for both EL and PL matches.

It's time to try being insular and spend the cash on British riders and foreigners who commit to the UK leagues and base themselves here.

Of course that will mean the likes of Jensen and Pedsersen and probably yes our own Woffinden will be absent but there is no evidence to suggest these people benefit the sport here compared to the outlay that is spent on them (Woffinden aside for the most obvious of reasons).

 

Four guys of comparative ability riding hell for leather for four laps. That is speedway and glamourous names don't necessarily make that better. Watching Darcy Ward or Chris Holder half a lap ahead of the PL standard rider that make up the majority of the EL is hardly entertainment. Of course when they don't gate they provide a thrill when passing said PL standard riders.

 

But the old NL back in the 70s provided shed loads of entertainment and found it's own stars.

Maybe it's time to invest in British talent and develop British speedway. Maybe it's time to promote the sport for the good of all.

 

The TV experience and the weatlth of benefits it could have brought has been frittered away by fools.

Now the excrement will hit the fan next year when SKY are no longer there with that comfort blanket.

 

Well balanced teams with UK and UK based riders of equal ability, a decent track and some half decent facilities.

That's all the sport needs as a base to start rebuilding.

 

Develop our own talent and harness the experience of world champions like Lee, Havalock, Loram and Tatum to help in that development.

Promote the sport as a body rather than as individuals. Of course local promotion of tracks will always be there but spread the word Nationaly together. That's what Association means.

Noun: A group of people organized for a joint purpose.

 

Will any of that happen? Of course not. Promoters, and the term is used loosely, will try to paper over the cracks, tracks will dissapear, perhaps a new one will emerge and be hailed as justification of the BSPAs genius.

Money will dissapear dragging in everybody elses talent and crowds will drop, prices go up and the same old record will play in 2014 as has been playing for years now.

[g13webb]

The reasons for the demise of our sport

Part 2. The importance of League Racing

The importance of league racing is paramount to the survival of speedway. It’s the place where we watch the bread and butter racing on a regular basis. It’s where the new riders start on the long road to stardom. Its supplies rational helpings of keeping interest in racing at a local level. A connection that most people recognise.

League racing can come in many forms, and of different standards. When run successfully there should be a progression in standard of the leagues that most people recognise. They can be seen as a stepping stone for the talent, and one which all riders want to climb. For this reason, you cannot overemphasise the importance of league racing

When we look at the shambles that now exist in the Elite league, you wonders how it has survived this long. Tell me another example when a second division team take preference over that of a top team. The way the rules are altered to accommodate whoever, reeks of conspiracy. Whatever way you look at it, it’s Pathetic. No wonder it has almost died. And people are leaving in their droves.

The most worrying part for me, is that the people that should know and are able to make the changes needed, are not prepared to do it, can’t be bothered too, or else they’re part of the conspiracy. That’s a big worry!!

Going back to what I mentioned earlier about league racing and qualifying for the SGP. The FIM should take on board the importance of this and totally govern the rules for each of the 4, named countries, top league on similar basic. Same team format; Same programme; Same Points limit; Same number of teams; Same average calculation; Same everything, with the only difference being the race night. That could be say: - Poland on Sundays; Sweden on Mondays; Denmark on Tuesday and England on Wednesday. Limits the riders to compete in maximum of 3 leagues only. That way, all four countries would be attractive to all the riders, knowing they needed a top 3 finish to qualify into SGP. There would be no more missing riders, no more RR, no more guest. No more fixture clashing. Sounds too good to be true, but it’s not. Let’s imagine the top league is competed by 10 teams, which would produce 9 Quality home meetings for each track, probably one every other week. With play-off and finals to follow, as per some countries aboard.

Running alongside this could be more leagues governed by each country’s control board, i.e. (BPSA). The clubs that compete in the top league could even have another team in lower leagues as well and on other race night’s if wanted. All these leagues needs to do, is be competitive and progressional. Some top clubs might have problems running their speedway on a specific night of the week, but this would have to be conditional of entry. Clubs who can’t move their race night would have to race in a lower league.

As you can imagine, I have given this, a great deal of thought. Dictated by all the problems that exist at the moment. I know times have moved on and the sport changes in so many ways. But, I feel unless a new structure or something similar is taken on board the sport is a good as dead. How much longer can we survive like this? We need this structured approach to encourage new talent and to get rid of the mercenary rider approach. The club should and HAS to be bigger than the rider, and the sooner the top riders and the top brass realise this, then better the chance of survival.

It is this or give up now.

[john birch]

One thing the top league must do ,if it continues to exist, is condense the race nights into one or at most two (wed/thur). I maintain it is no accident that Poole are the best supported and successful franchise. They can attract top riders with the Wed. racenight and the opposition turn up full strength making the whole thing look more professional. At Coventry on a Friday night it's been a total joke this year with Swindon minus half their team on FIM duty, Wolves minus Lindgren at Togliatti, Belle Vue minus Craig Cook doubling up. Keep the current points limit, maybe increase the league to 12 teams and race 22 fixtures on fixed night(s).

[Midland Red]

If we continue to have the league structure as at present, what needs addressing urgently is the "doubling-up" situation

Whilst I applaud to opportunity for riders to earn more money and gain more track time and experience, the way it is set up at present causes more guests and r/r's than anything else in British Speedway - a self-inflicted wound, I would say

It could work very well, but it needs reorganising

 

[Crump99]

 

I maintain it is no accident that Poole are the best supported and successful franchise.

 

 

It's in the town centre with easy access by any travel method chosen and seems to be offered as one of the main entertainment attractions of the city, both for locals and visitors alike, without much additional promotional work needed, how many other tracks have all of that going for them?

[LagutaRacingFan]

Pretty sure Sky will renew, They have been very impressed with the viewing figures from what I understand.

[arthur cross]

Well done to GRW-123 for two of the most dreadfully English-blinkered and naive posts this forum's ever likely to see ... I won't waste bandwidth copying the pair of them but suffice to say they misjudge England's (well, actually Great Britain's) current standing and influence within world speedway by such a wide margin that they haven't a prayer of becoming a reality.

 

You're never going to establish a single night every week for running an Elite League in this country ... too many of the venues are reliant on the differently-restricted days of the week available to them once the greyhound landlords have scheduled their more lucrative meetings first (or in Peterborough's case, fitting around the car parking availability once the Showground's other big events have been fixed in their schedule).

 

GRW-123 reckons the SGP has turned the majority of its riders into mercenaries ... well there wasn't any SGP in the 1960's or 1970's but you'll do well to find a bigger speedway mercenary at any stage in the sport's history than Ivan Mauger (and frankly, I don't blame him or any other riders since then for looking after themselves financially given they're risking life and limb in every race).

 

As for relying on SGP qualification coming via performances in the leagues of Poland, Denmark, Sweden & England, how the hell are you going to successfully get the FIM to bring the SGP and 4 different domestic authorities together on agreeing how many qualifiers they're each going to supply for next year's Grand Prix meetings ? !! ... and what do you do when the same rider picks up 2 qualifying tickets from different leagues ? !! (for example, Andreas Jonsson isn't quite high enough in the current year's SGP standings to re-qualify that way but does score well enough in both Poland and Sweden to pick up a ticket from each).

 

And as for BSI's quaifiers for the Grand Prix meetings "not giving a thought, or caring a damn, to the disruption they create by taking the riders away from their league commitments" ... well, football seems to cope with having 3 or 4 "international weekends" each year (one each in September and October with others sometimes fitted into November and March) where every domestic league closes down for around 10 days so why can't the domestic speedway authorities begin to do something similar with the FIM or BSI ? !!

 

Domestic clubs can do their bit as well ... the FIM releases next year's international calendar every October and the more organized British clubs (Elite & Premier) do bother to match their plans for next year's team-building against that calendar before requesting any gaps in their home fixtutre-list.

 

One of speedway's biggest problems at the moment is that too many people within it (administrators and fans) are realizing far too late just how big a mess the sport's tumbled into when the necessary repair work should have started ages ago.

[PHILIPRISING]

WELL put Arthur Cross... would just add that BSI have nothing to do with qualifying rounds for the SGP. The fact is that there are many more speedway meetings taking place across Europe than ever before, especially 20 or 30 years ago. Riders have much more choice when it comes to earning a living now than ever before.

 

Kelvin Tatum and I spoke to Martin Vaculik at our hotel in Dauigavpils last weekend and suggested that a few meetings in the UK might be good for him, not in terms of money but widening his riding skills. He wasn't interested in the slightest. Actually said that he could never see himself racing in the UK. Doesn't like the tracks. the surfaces and particularly the thought of commuting in and out of the country.

 

He can race as much as he likes across continental Europe and he is not alone in that.

[LagutaRacingFan]

WELL put Arthur Cross... would just add that BSI have nothing to do with qualifying rounds for the SGP. The fact is that there are many more speedway meetings taking place across Europe than ever before, especially 20 or 30 years ago. Riders have much more choice when it comes to earning a living now than ever before.

 

Kelvin Tatum and I spoke to Martin Vaculik at our hotel in Dauigavpils last weekend and suggested that a few meetings in the UK might be good for him, not in terms of money but widening his riding skills. He wasn't interested in the slightest. Actually said that he could never see himself racing in the UK. Doesn't like the tracks. the surfaces and particularly the thought of commuting in and out of the country.

 

He can race as much as he likes across continental Europe and he is not alone in that.

 

Good point, I recently spoke to Michael Jepsen Jensen and he told me that the travelling into the UK and then hearing of a rain off was extremely frustrating mentally and physically.

[The Doctor...]

Good point, I recently spoke to Michael Jepsen Jensen and he told me that the travelling into the UK and then hearing of a rain off was extremely frustrating mentally and physically.

 

Your right arm must be massive

[T.N.T.]

The way I see it is the Elite League next season will be full of riders that commit to racing here regardless of what is happening in other countries. Yes they can't hide away from riders wanting to ride in the Polish or Swedish leagues or in the European or GP Series which is growing each season.

 

 

This will obviously be a tough call for any Swedish or Polish riders that compete in all three leagues or even the other events. Riders like Darcy Ward, Chris Holder, Tai Woffinden won't have the problem of a governing body making them ride in their own country and those three could easily stay involved, but like Tai, it would possibly mean riding in only one other league.

 

 

Riders like Ben Barker, Craig Cook, David Howe etc etc have made the decision to double up here rather than ride abroad and so too have a number of Australians like Nick Morris, Ty Proctor, Aaron Summers etc. These riders have at present commited themselves to British Speedway and with an influx of more young Australians, riders from lesser known countries basing themselves here along withriders progressing from the National League will form the back bone of the future of British Speedway.

 

 

Darcy Ward may decide to stay riding in Poland and for Poole while Tai Woffinden has found riding for just Wroclaw in Poland and Wolverhampton has been the best set up for him to plan his calendar and get the right training and rest between meetings with Tuesday his special day where he can eat a bit more after a heavy weekend of racing

 

 

It may mean Wolves start next season with Woffinden, Skornicki, Proctor, Wells, Thorssell, Morris and a new number seven while Poole go with Ward, Holder, Zetterstrom, Tungate, Dyer and two new youngsters ...... Swindon with Batchelor, Doyle, Kildemand, Morris, Birks, Howarth and a 3.00 rider ....... etc etc

 

At least the league will be full of riders committed to ridng here and it will be affordable

 

 

 

 

Or ...... the Elite League virtually lowers itself to a level just above the Premier League with a view to makig it one big league in 2015 ?